Second Life Forums Archive - Prims visible only to owner?

Jekyll McHenry

GOM Lackey

Join date: 10 Jul 2004

Posts: 24

08-03-2005 11:33

Is this possible? (I haven't had a chance to check the card tables to see how they solve the problem...)

I need to display certain prims only to one avatar and not to anyone else. Like a "heads-up-display". I get the sense this is not something that we can do at the moment...

Is that right?

Jek

Aliasi Stonebender

Return of Catbread

Join date: 30 Jan 2005

Posts: 1,858

08-03-2005 11:37

From: Jekyll McHenry

Is this possible? (I haven't had a chance to check the card tables to see how they solve the problem...)

I need to display certain prims only to one avatar and not to anyone else. Like a "heads-up-display". I get the sense this is not something that we can do at the moment...

Is that right?

Jek

That's so. What you can do is either have it send periodic IMs or llOwnerSay (depending on how it's set up) or have a small prim with floating SetText if the information isn't absolutely criticial to not be seen by others, but you're just wanting a "HUD"

_____________________

Red Mary says, softly, “How a man grows aggressive when his enemy displays propriety. He thinks: I will use this good behavior to enforce my advantage over her. Is it any wonder people hold good behavior in such disregard?”
Anything Surplus Home to the "Nuke the Crap Out of..." series of games and other stuff

Jekyll McHenry

GOM Lackey

Join date: 10 Jul 2004

Posts: 24

08-03-2005 11:46

From: Aliasi Stonebender

That's so. What you can do is either have it send periodic IMs or llOwnerSay (depending on how it's set up) or have a small prim with floating SetText if the information isn't absolutely criticial to not be seen by others, but you're just wanting a "HUD"

Argh.

The trouble with IMs is that the information could be very detailed. It's more a visual thing. Describing playing cards with text is one thing, but there's really only 14 (1,2...,9,10,J,Q,K,A) + 4 (hearts, clubs, spades, diamonds) bits of information. I'll probably need a few hundred.

Thanks for your reply.

Jek

Minsk Oud

Registered User

Join date: 12 Jul 2005

Posts: 85

08-03-2005 12:05

One possibility that might be worth playing with is putting the avatar's head and the HUD inside an invisible sphere. If the HUD has an alpha texture it should often be invisible from outside the sphere (I say often because the layering occasionally gets messed up, and obviously panning a camera inside would let someone else see).

Klintel Kiesler

Registered User

Join date: 31 Dec 2003

Posts: 51

08-03-2005 12:24

Other card tables that have multiple players use textures. It sends the texture via llGiveInventory to the AV key that needs it. This will make the textures show up on screen. From there, the player can "decline" the texture and it will be sent to the trash; keeping the texture inventory uncluttered.

Most people know all the camera tricks. A player who likes to cheat at card games would have no problem seeing the other person's heads up display. Theres nothing stoping the camera from moving into a private environment. The give inventory trick for cards would be the safest way to go about it.

Jekyll McHenry

GOM Lackey

Join date: 10 Jul 2004

Posts: 24

08-03-2005 12:40

From: Klintel Kiesler

Other card tables that have multiple players use textures. It sends the texture via llGiveInventory to the AV key that needs it. This will make the textures show up on screen. From there, the player can "decline" the texture and it will be sent to the trash; keeping the texture inventory uncluttered.

Most people know all the camera tricks. A player who likes to cheat at card games would have no problem seeing the other person's heads up display. Theres nothing stoping the camera from moving into a private environment. The give inventory trick for cards would be the safest way to go about it.

Interesting. If I understand correctly, you're relying on the client-side "Do you want to save this texture?" dialog as your user interface, right? The user would have to either keep the windows open (and remember which ones were for what game...) or remember which ones they had already received.

Sounds awfully complicated. It would be really nice if I could just set a prim (or side of a prim) attribute saying this is (or these are) the only avatars that can see this. Everyone else sees nothing or solid or something.

Jek

Tiger Crossing

The Prim Maker

Join date: 18 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,560

08-03-2005 14:39

Providing some means for user-specific textures is a big hurdle yet to be crossed in Second Life when it comes to making games. From the Wikipedia entry on Game Theory:

From: someone

In games of complete information each player has the same game-relevant information as every other player. Chess and the prisoner's dilemma exemplify complete-information games. Complete information games occur only rarely in the real world, and game theorists usually use them only as approximations of the actual game played.

But complete information games are pretty much the only type provided for in the Second Life engine. (Hacks like passing texture windows around notwithstanding.)

The cleanest solution is to either make textures that look different based on script-defined rules, or entire objects that do the same.

The problem with this solution is that it degrades the immersiveness of the 3D world when people are seeing it differently. Back when ghosting was an even bigger problem than it is now, there was nothing more confusion-causing than objects and people that only some observers could see. Abuses of such an ability are numerous and easily imagined.

BUT... We already have ONE instance of this. Video. If one person has video turned on and one does not, they will each see the replacement texture differently. This isn't too usefull for games, however, unless somehow the server of the video could restrict or redirect what stream is seen by client IP.

Now... It's said that HTTP is coming to prim faces in the near future. Here's a BIG opportunity for game makers if all works out right. The same IP-switching I mentioned for video serving (which isn't supported by most video server software, as far as I know) CAN be done from a web server. It's done all the time... You and I are both looking at this page, but only I will see the EDIT button on this post.

With HTML on a prim, I think we'll finally be able to provide information that is unique to the viewer.

Of course, this is asuming that Second Life's servers just send out the URL to each client, and they contact the web server, download the HTML, and render it to a local texture... Just as the quicktime streams are handled. If instead, the servers at Linden Lab fetch the HTML, render it, and send out the texture to every client... This won't work. But that's a far less efficient method, so I'm not too worried.

"Give us HTML, and... We'll make some cool games."

_____________________

~ Tiger Crossing
~ (Nonsanity)

Prims visible only to owner?
Jekyll McHenry GOM Lackey Join date: 10 Jul 2004 Posts: 24	08-03-2005 11:33 Is this possible? (I haven't had a chance to check the card tables to see how they solve the problem...) I need to display certain prims only to one avatar and not to anyone else. Like a "heads-up-display". I get the sense this is not something that we can do at the moment... Is that right? Jek
Aliasi Stonebender Return of Catbread Join date: 30 Jan 2005 Posts: 1,858	08-03-2005 11:37 From: Jekyll McHenry Is this possible? (I haven't had a chance to check the card tables to see how they solve the problem...) I need to display certain prims only to one avatar and not to anyone else. Like a "heads-up-display". I get the sense this is not something that we can do at the moment... Is that right? Jek That's so. What you can do is either have it send periodic IMs or llOwnerSay (depending on how it's set up) or have a small prim with floating SetText if the information isn't absolutely criticial to not be seen by others, but you're just wanting a "HUD" _____________________ Red Mary says, softly, “How a man grows aggressive when his enemy displays propriety. He thinks: I will use this good behavior to enforce my advantage over her. Is it any wonder people hold good behavior in such disregard?” Anything Surplus Home to the "Nuke the Crap Out of..." series of games and other stuff
Jekyll McHenry GOM Lackey Join date: 10 Jul 2004 Posts: 24	08-03-2005 11:46 From: Aliasi Stonebender That's so. What you can do is either have it send periodic IMs or llOwnerSay (depending on how it's set up) or have a small prim with floating SetText if the information isn't absolutely criticial to not be seen by others, but you're just wanting a "HUD" Argh. The trouble with IMs is that the information could be very detailed. It's more a visual thing. Describing playing cards with text is one thing, but there's really only 14 (1,2...,9,10,J,Q,K,A) + 4 (hearts, clubs, spades, diamonds) bits of information. I'll probably need a few hundred. Thanks for your reply. Jek
Minsk Oud Registered User Join date: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 85	08-03-2005 12:05 One possibility that might be worth playing with is putting the avatar's head and the HUD inside an invisible sphere. If the HUD has an alpha texture it should often be invisible from outside the sphere (I say often because the layering occasionally gets messed up, and obviously panning a camera inside would let someone else see).
Klintel Kiesler Registered User Join date: 31 Dec 2003 Posts: 51	08-03-2005 12:24 Other card tables that have multiple players use textures. It sends the texture via llGiveInventory to the AV key that needs it. This will make the textures show up on screen. From there, the player can "decline" the texture and it will be sent to the trash; keeping the texture inventory uncluttered. Most people know all the camera tricks. A player who likes to cheat at card games would have no problem seeing the other person's heads up display. Theres nothing stoping the camera from moving into a private environment. The give inventory trick for cards would be the safest way to go about it.
Jekyll McHenry GOM Lackey Join date: 10 Jul 2004 Posts: 24	08-03-2005 12:40 From: Klintel Kiesler Other card tables that have multiple players use textures. It sends the texture via llGiveInventory to the AV key that needs it. This will make the textures show up on screen. From there, the player can "decline" the texture and it will be sent to the trash; keeping the texture inventory uncluttered. Most people know all the camera tricks. A player who likes to cheat at card games would have no problem seeing the other person's heads up display. Theres nothing stoping the camera from moving into a private environment. The give inventory trick for cards would be the safest way to go about it. Interesting. If I understand correctly, you're relying on the client-side "Do you want to save this texture?" dialog as your user interface, right? The user would have to either keep the windows open (and remember which ones were for what game...) or remember which ones they had already received. Sounds awfully complicated. It would be really nice if I could just set a prim (or side of a prim) attribute saying this is (or these are) the only avatars that can see this. Everyone else sees nothing or solid or something. Jek
Tiger Crossing The Prim Maker Join date: 18 Aug 2003 Posts: 1,560	08-03-2005 14:39 Providing some means for user-specific textures is a big hurdle yet to be crossed in Second Life when it comes to making games. From the Wikipedia entry on Game Theory: From: someone In games of complete information each player has the same game-relevant information as every other player. Chess and the prisoner's dilemma exemplify complete-information games. Complete information games occur only rarely in the real world, and game theorists usually use them only as approximations of the actual game played. But complete information games are pretty much the only type provided for in the Second Life engine. (Hacks like passing texture windows around notwithstanding.) The cleanest solution is to either make textures that look different based on script-defined rules, or entire objects that do the same. The problem with this solution is that it degrades the immersiveness of the 3D world when people are seeing it differently. Back when ghosting was an even bigger problem than it is now, there was nothing more confusion-causing than objects and people that only some observers could see. Abuses of such an ability are numerous and easily imagined. BUT... We already have ONE instance of this. Video. If one person has video turned on and one does not, they will each see the replacement texture differently. This isn't too usefull for games, however, unless somehow the server of the video could restrict or redirect what stream is seen by client IP. Now... It's said that HTTP is coming to prim faces in the near future. Here's a BIG opportunity for game makers if all works out right. The same IP-switching I mentioned for video serving (which isn't supported by most video server software, as far as I know) CAN be done from a web server. It's done all the time... You and I are both looking at this page, but only I will see the EDIT button on this post. With HTML on a prim, I think we'll finally be able to provide information that is unique to the viewer. Of course, this is asuming that Second Life's servers just send out the URL to each client, and they contact the web server, download the HTML, and render it to a local texture... Just as the quicktime streams are handled. If instead, the servers at Linden Lab fetch the HTML, render it, and send out the texture to every client... This won't work. But that's a far less efficient method, so I'm not too worried. "Give us HTML, and... We'll make some cool games." _____________________ ~ Tiger Crossing ~ (Nonsanity)

Welcome to the Second Life Forums Archive

Prims visible only to owner?