Permissions are confusing...

I KNOW there is a sticky post that explains permissions. I've read through it, and tried stuff out, but I still have questions.

I have an object. I set the object to be no-copy, no-mod, no-transfer.
Inside the object, I have a notecard.
I set the notecard to be no-copy, no-transfer. The next owner can still modify the notecard, right?

Next question: I have a box set as no-mod, no copy, no transfer. Inside the box I have other items. Even though the box as no-mod, I can still remove items from the box, right?

Thanks!
Adman

You cannot set an object no mod/no copy/no transfer.

The best advice I can give you is to get a second account and test everything with it. Especially if it's items for sale. Permissions can sometimes be like owls - they are not what they seem.

Q1: No, the owner can't modify notecards in no-mod objects

Q2: I think yes, but I'd have to double check

No problem, I know it can be confusing...



First, you can't set ANY item to be BOTH no copy AND no transfer. Its one or the other. Its either, let a person have as many copies as they want, but not be able to send them to other people, or let someone have only one copy, but they can send it to otheres. You can of course let them have as many copies as they want AND send it to others by enabling them both.

As for the notecard.. Notecards and scripts are different when it comes to permission, as being able to modify the text, means you can read it, and therefore, copy and transfer it. However, they STILL cannot be set no copy AND no transfer.

So to able to read the notecard, it needs to have full permissions, as far as I know. Modify with either copy or transfer turned OFF, means you can just change the name and description of it, etc.



Again, you can't have a box set no copy AND no transfer.

If a box is no modify and either no copy OR no transfer, however, you CAN remove items from it, you just get a warning message..



However, I am at a loss to understand why these items need to be these permissions, so need more information until I can give you full proof advice..

Man, now I'm even more confused. I'll describe the situations and you can help me out. (Sorry, I'm at work and doing this off the top of my head).

1)

I have a casino game that I'd like to sell. I do not want the next owner to be able to modify the physical structure of the game. I do not want them to be able to make multiple copies of it. I do not want them to be able to transfer it to anyone else. (I guess I've learned that I can't restrict them from copying AND transferring. Fine).

Inside the game is a script to run the game. I don't want the next owner to be able to see or modify this.

Inside the game is also a notecard with the bet amount. I want the next owner to be able to modify this to change the bet amount of the game.


2) I have a system of objects that I'd like to sell as a package. Therefore, I have a made a box with the system contained inside. I want to sell the box, and allow the next owner to take out the components of the system. I don't want them to be able to copy or modify or re-sell the box. (Not possible, right?)

The system itself is it's own ball of wax, so I'll leave it at this for now. (The system has one non-copiable, non-moddable object, and multiple copiable, modable objects... so I think I can set that up).

As I said, I do apoligize if this is abundantly clear to everyone else except for me. I'm not going to spend any money on a second account, but I have recruited a friend to help me test...

Thanks so much everyone!
Adman

The user interface for permissions could be improved. Ideally, we'd have a panel with permission check boxes for the object, for everything inside it, and for everything inside those items as well.

For very full objects, there should be "next" and "back" buttons so one can see and set permissions for all the contents.

The present permissions system takes time and is error prone. We need something better.

Set the game itself to NoMod/NoCopy/Transfer. Some people create two versions, including a NoMod/Copy/NoTransfer version for more money, sort of an unlimited version, but only for use on their avatars (hence the no transfer)

Set the script to NoMod/NoCopy/Transfer

Set the notecard to Mod/Copy/Transfer



Boxes with items inside them sort of add another level. If you have a box thats Mod/Copy/Transfer and then put items inside it, the items keep their own permissions, so if you put a no transfer item into a box thats transferable, you still won't be able to transfer any of it until the no transfer bit is taken out.

So no harm can be done by leaving the box full permissions.

The other option to selling items from a box, is to use the "Sell Contents" option. This just sells the items INSIDE the box, and puts them in a folder in the buyers inventory, so the box itself isn't transfered at all.

If you want to sell a copy of the box however, and don't want to make it full permissions, I'd make it Modify/NoCopy/Transfer.

And good luck btw

Unless the box is something ususual or special, most people delete the boxes, why worry about the permissions of the box, it's the contents of the box that matter. But like Zap said, you might be better off just selling the contents of the box anyways, I always find that much more convenient.

Great... thanks so much everyone!

Two problems with the permsisions UI that have been driving me crazy lately:

- The word "transfer" doesn't even appear in the UI (it's resell/giveaway?)

- Even if you set the permissions right, you still cant buy something from yourself to test it, because it will still show that you can do anything you want to the object cause you made it!

To be *absolutely* sure, you (stupidly) have to get a friend to buy the thing from you and then ask them "So what do you see?" to get it right.

That's just dumb.

Instead of the "next owner" language, it should just say what an owner can do and waht a creator can do. Those two words are what is used in the same dialogue anyway.

LL should seriously hire someone (like me!) that does this kind of UI language correction in RL all day long, to go through the entire UI looking for stupid wording like this.

Dammit, it doesn't work!

I set the game to NoMod, NoCopy, Transfer.

I set the bet_amount notecard to full perms.

My friend could NOT edit the notecard in place. He could TAKE the card, and edit it, but could not replace the card back in the game.

SOMEONE must have done this before...

Help.

More...

Try this: Make a box, and remove all permissions.
Put a notecard in that box. Give it full permissions.

Give the box to someone else. Try to have them edit the notecard (either in the box, or remove the card, edit it, and put it back in the box).

I don't think it can be done.

I got around the problem by having my game do a "listen" rather than read the card, but I'm still bummed that it didn't work.

Thanks again for all your helpful suggestions, everyone!

Adman

And now you bring that up...

You should ALWAYS be able to give an object back to the creator even if it has no-transfer set!

I would love to be able to see how people have screwed up my builds, in detail, so I can figure out how to make it harder for someone else to accidentally make the same mistake...

I have an object I sell that's no-mod that lets you drop a texture in it. It uses llAllowInventoryDrop()... after a touch by the owner it "unlocks", they can then drop the texture in and re-lock it. Chage McCoy's "Mehve" uses the same scheme for wing logos.

So you give them the object and the notecard, and they drag the old notecard out and drop a new one in to change the settings.

Similarly, ....

You should be able to get something back from a group once you deed it to the group, especially if it's your own group! Right now it just drops into a black hole and can be deleted only.

If you want to make a simple radio for use on group land you have to give it away full copy full transfer for it to be any use, then good luck sellling any radios in the future after that.

Brilliant. I'll look into it. Thanks!

I already got rid of the stinking notecard concetp anyways, and just did a stupid "listen" instead. But this is good to know for the future, obviously!

Adman

Wow, I didn't know that.

I guess that's like the way X-Flight got out, back in the old days.