Second Life Forums Archive - Texture Question...

VzNevada Menoptra

Registered User

Join date: 1 Nov 2005

Posts: 211

11-22-2005 03:49

I downloaded a wood texture and saved it as a jpg. When I tried to apply it to my furniture it wouldn't change. LOL! Is there a secret to this?

Chosen Few

Alpha Channel Slave

Join date: 16 Jan 2004

Posts: 7,496

11-22-2005 05:43

Did you upload it to SL?

_____________________

.

Land now available for rent in Indigo. Low rates. Quiet, low-lag mainland sim with good neighbors. IM me in-world if you're interested.

Micheal Richard

Expat in Tokyo

Join date: 28 Sep 2005

Posts: 6

Image file format

12-08-2005 00:12

I thought the normal image format was targa? 24Bit for no alpha and 32Bit if an alpha channel was used... I believe that is written in the tutorials for making clothes.

Correct me if I am wrong...

Torley Linden

Enlightenment!

Join date: 15 Sep 2004

Posts: 16,530

12-08-2005 00:24

From: Micheal Richard

I thought the normal image format was targa? 24Bit for no alpha and 32Bit if an alpha channel was used... I believe that is written in the tutorials for making clothes.

Correct me if I am wrong...

You can upload JPGs too, from what I've read it all gets converted to JPG2000 format internally anyhoo, so best to start off with something as high-quality as possible.

_____________________

Art Laxness

Registered User

Join date: 24 Sep 2005

Posts: 34

12-08-2005 04:03

I got a box full of wood textures. drop me a line

AJ DaSilva

woz ere

Join date: 15 Jun 2005

Posts: 1,993

12-08-2005 04:16

Is it furniture you bought? Does it have modify rights?

We need more info...

_____________________

Carson Hadlee

They're coming to take me

Join date: 18 Jun 2004

Posts: 60

Compressed vs. Non-Compressed

12-08-2005 09:14

Torley is correct....everything in SL gets mashed into JPEG2000 ..an older format that SL uses because it supports transparencies in the JPEG format. JPEG2000 was the kindof lame attempt to update the jpeg format to make it more compatible with GIF which ALWAYS supported transparencies. It is mostly not used anymore.

JPEG is called a lossy format because in order to optimize the size of the file it has to LOOSE information based on algorithms that lose pixel information.

Anyway...yes ...since SL DOES mash everything into JPEG2000...which is lossy..if you also upload your pictures in .jpg, which is also lossy, you have effectively mashed your image twice...each time loosing more info. Therefore more and more detail is lost in each mash.

If however you upload your pictures in .tga (TARGA) format, 24-bit for non transparency or 32-bit for transparency (or alpha) channel info, you are sending SL a FULL info file with no loss incurred.

It is for this reason that it is said better to upload clothes (with lots of details) in the .tga format.

This way, when SL does mash it into JPEG2000, your work has only gone through ONE loss process, not two.

Hope that helps.

_____________________

"Obey Gravity - It's the LAW!"

"There's no place like 127.0.0.1"

Custom Signs - Security Systems - Model Trains
Soul Soothers - Light Moves System
Ticket Please Access Systems

Chosen Few

Alpha Channel Slave

Join date: 16 Jan 2004

Posts: 7,496

12-08-2005 10:26

From: Carson Hadlee

Torley is correct....everything in SL gets mashed into JPEG2000 ..an older format that SL uses because it supports transparencies in the JPEG format. JPEG2000 was the kindof lame attempt to update the jpeg format to make it more compatible with GIF which ALWAYS supported transparencies. It is mostly not used anymore.

JPEG is called a lossy format because in order to optimize the size of the file it has to LOOSE information based on algorithms that lose pixel information.

Anyway...yes ...since SL DOES mash everything into JPEG2000...which is lossy..if you also upload your pictures in .jpg, which is also lossy, you have effectively mashed your image twice...each time loosing more info. Therefore more and more detail is lost in each mash.

If however you upload your pictures in .tga (TARGA) format, 24-bit for non transparency or 32-bit for transparency (or alpha) channel info, you are sending SL a FULL info file with no loss incurred.

It is for this reason that it is said better to upload clothes (with lots of details) in the .tga format.

This way, when SL does mash it into JPEG2000, your work has only gone through ONE loss process, not two.

Hope that helps.

Carson, I'm with you all the way on your assertion that TGA should be used over JPEG for SL, but with all due respect, I have some issues with the rest of what you said. What is your basis for assuming that JPEG2000 is some kind of attempt to make JPEG behave more like GIF?

Sure, GIF and JPEG2000 are both compressed formats that support transparency, but that's as far as the similarity goes. GIF is limited to 256 colors, while JPEG and JPEG2000 both support over 16 million colors. While GIF is great for things like diagrams and buttons because they require few colors, it's not something that JPEG2000 with its full color palette was intended to immitate. What JPEG2000 acually is is a long overdue improvement to the original lossy JPEG standard, which previously hadn't changed in 15 years. Like it's predecessor, JPEG2000 is intended for images like color photographs, for which GIF is completely unsuitable.

I'm also confused why you refer to it as old. As its name suggests, it's only been around for a few years. Almost all of the most common image formats that in use today are 15-20 years old. GIF has been around since 1987, JPEG since about the same time (I don't know the exact year), BMP (non-32-bit) since the dawn of Windows, PNG since 1996, TGA (in its present form) since 1989, TIFF (present form) since 1992, and PSD since 1990 (although PSD continues to evolve as Photoshop gains more and more features).

Relatively speaking, JPEG2000 is brand spankin' new. It was introduced at about the same time as 32-bit BMP, and neither new format has widely caught on yet. Before they came along, it had been so long since there were any new introductions to the image format kingdom that people had a lot of time to get very, very comfortable with what already existed. Because of that, I suspect ANY new format will continue to be met with reluctant complacency, just as these two have. Eventually, I'm sure they'll catch on though.

Also, I'd hardly define JPEG2000 as "lame", as you put it. It's actually very impressive. It produces on average about 20% less loss than JPEG at comparable file size, it's optionally lossless, and it supports transparency to boot. There's talk that it may even end up replacing TIFF as the standard for photo archiving, which says a lot.

_____________________

.

Land now available for rent in Indigo. Low rates. Quiet, low-lag mainland sim with good neighbors. IM me in-world if you're interested.

Micheal Richard

Expat in Tokyo

Join date: 28 Sep 2005

Posts: 6

Applied but not seen

12-09-2005 22:47

Well back to the original problem...

Important Questions: Do you see the image in your SL inventory? Can you double click on it and get a preview window? The preview is not a grey and white checkers board pattern?

YES: Then try applying the texture to a new object that you created...
Reason: The object you are trying to apply it to is not yours and you do not have permissions. Or it has a script in it that modifies the texture of the object it is inside of. Or if using the texture selection window is the "Apply immediate" checkbox is off (Click the Select button to apply...). Or maybe... the sim you are in is EXTREMELY slow and it does not display it before you try another texture.

NO: Then you may need to modify the JPEG you downloaded on to your computer.
Reason: The orginal image is different somehow. So to make sure open it on your computer with a graphic editor. SAVE AS a targa image under a different name with no compression. Then upload the new image and try applying again.

If this doesn't work try catching someone while SL and ask. You can ask me if you see me.

Texture Question...
VzNevada Menoptra Registered User Join date: 1 Nov 2005 Posts: 211	11-22-2005 03:49 I downloaded a wood texture and saved it as a jpg. When I tried to apply it to my furniture it wouldn't change. LOL! Is there a secret to this?
Chosen Few Alpha Channel Slave Join date: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 7,496	11-22-2005 05:43 Did you upload it to SL? _____________________ . Land now available for rent in Indigo. Low rates. Quiet, low-lag mainland sim with good neighbors. IM me in-world if you're interested.
Micheal Richard Expat in Tokyo Join date: 28 Sep 2005 Posts: 6	Image file format 12-08-2005 00:12 I thought the normal image format was targa? 24Bit for no alpha and 32Bit if an alpha channel was used... I believe that is written in the tutorials for making clothes. Correct me if I am wrong...
Torley Linden Enlightenment! Join date: 15 Sep 2004 Posts: 16,530	12-08-2005 00:24 From: Micheal Richard I thought the normal image format was targa? 24Bit for no alpha and 32Bit if an alpha channel was used... I believe that is written in the tutorials for making clothes. Correct me if I am wrong... You can upload JPGs too, from what I've read it all gets converted to JPG2000 format internally anyhoo, so best to start off with something as high-quality as possible. _____________________
Art Laxness Registered User Join date: 24 Sep 2005 Posts: 34	12-08-2005 04:03 I got a box full of wood textures. drop me a line
AJ DaSilva woz ere Join date: 15 Jun 2005 Posts: 1,993	12-08-2005 04:16 Is it furniture you bought? Does it have modify rights? We need more info... _____________________
Carson Hadlee They're coming to take me Join date: 18 Jun 2004 Posts: 60	Compressed vs. Non-Compressed 12-08-2005 09:14 Torley is correct....everything in SL gets mashed into JPEG2000 ..an older format that SL uses because it supports transparencies in the JPEG format. JPEG2000 was the kindof lame attempt to update the jpeg format to make it more compatible with GIF which ALWAYS supported transparencies. It is mostly not used anymore. JPEG is called a lossy format because in order to optimize the size of the file it has to LOOSE information based on algorithms that lose pixel information. Anyway...yes ...since SL DOES mash everything into JPEG2000...which is lossy..if you also upload your pictures in .jpg, which is also lossy, you have effectively mashed your image twice...each time loosing more info. Therefore more and more detail is lost in each mash. If however you upload your pictures in .tga (TARGA) format, 24-bit for non transparency or 32-bit for transparency (or alpha) channel info, you are sending SL a FULL info file with no loss incurred. It is for this reason that it is said better to upload clothes (with lots of details) in the .tga format. This way, when SL does mash it into JPEG2000, your work has only gone through ONE loss process, not two. Hope that helps. _____________________ "Obey Gravity - It's the LAW!" "There's no place like 127.0.0.1" Custom Signs - Security Systems - Model Trains Soul Soothers - Light Moves System Ticket Please Access Systems
Chosen Few Alpha Channel Slave Join date: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 7,496	12-08-2005 10:26 From: Carson Hadlee Torley is correct....everything in SL gets mashed into JPEG2000 ..an older format that SL uses because it supports transparencies in the JPEG format. JPEG2000 was the kindof lame attempt to update the jpeg format to make it more compatible with GIF which ALWAYS supported transparencies. It is mostly not used anymore. JPEG is called a lossy format because in order to optimize the size of the file it has to LOOSE information based on algorithms that lose pixel information. Anyway...yes ...since SL DOES mash everything into JPEG2000...which is lossy..if you also upload your pictures in .jpg, which is also lossy, you have effectively mashed your image twice...each time loosing more info. Therefore more and more detail is lost in each mash. If however you upload your pictures in .tga (TARGA) format, 24-bit for non transparency or 32-bit for transparency (or alpha) channel info, you are sending SL a FULL info file with no loss incurred. It is for this reason that it is said better to upload clothes (with lots of details) in the .tga format. This way, when SL does mash it into JPEG2000, your work has only gone through ONE loss process, not two. Hope that helps. Carson, I'm with you all the way on your assertion that TGA should be used over JPEG for SL, but with all due respect, I have some issues with the rest of what you said. What is your basis for assuming that JPEG2000 is some kind of attempt to make JPEG behave more like GIF? Sure, GIF and JPEG2000 are both compressed formats that support transparency, but that's as far as the similarity goes. GIF is limited to 256 colors, while JPEG and JPEG2000 both support over 16 million colors. While GIF is great for things like diagrams and buttons because they require few colors, it's not something that JPEG2000 with its full color palette was intended to immitate. What JPEG2000 acually is is a long overdue improvement to the original lossy JPEG standard, which previously hadn't changed in 15 years. Like it's predecessor, JPEG2000 is intended for images like color photographs, for which GIF is completely unsuitable. I'm also confused why you refer to it as old. As its name suggests, it's only been around for a few years. Almost all of the most common image formats that in use today are 15-20 years old. GIF has been around since 1987, JPEG since about the same time (I don't know the exact year), BMP (non-32-bit) since the dawn of Windows, PNG since 1996, TGA (in its present form) since 1989, TIFF (present form) since 1992, and PSD since 1990 (although PSD continues to evolve as Photoshop gains more and more features). Relatively speaking, JPEG2000 is brand spankin' new. It was introduced at about the same time as 32-bit BMP, and neither new format has widely caught on yet. Before they came along, it had been so long since there were any new introductions to the image format kingdom that people had a lot of time to get very, very comfortable with what already existed. Because of that, I suspect ANY new format will continue to be met with reluctant complacency, just as these two have. Eventually, I'm sure they'll catch on though. Also, I'd hardly define JPEG2000 as "lame", as you put it. It's actually very impressive. It produces on average about 20% less loss than JPEG at comparable file size, it's optionally lossless, and it supports transparency to boot. There's talk that it may even end up replacing TIFF as the standard for photo archiving, which says a lot. _____________________ . Land now available for rent in Indigo. Low rates. Quiet, low-lag mainland sim with good neighbors. IM me in-world if you're interested.
Micheal Richard Expat in Tokyo Join date: 28 Sep 2005 Posts: 6	Applied but not seen 12-09-2005 22:47 Well back to the original problem... Important Questions: Do you see the image in your SL inventory? Can you double click on it and get a preview window? The preview is not a grey and white checkers board pattern? YES: Then try applying the texture to a new object that you created... Reason: The object you are trying to apply it to is not yours and you do not have permissions. Or it has a script in it that modifies the texture of the object it is inside of. Or if using the texture selection window is the "Apply immediate" checkbox is off (Click the Select button to apply...). Or maybe... the sim you are in is EXTREMELY slow and it does not display it before you try another texture. NO: Then you may need to modify the JPEG you downloaded on to your computer. Reason: The orginal image is different somehow. So to make sure open it on your computer with a graphic editor. SAVE AS a targa image under a different name with no compression. Then upload the new image and try applying again. If this doesn't work try catching someone while SL and ask. You can ask me if you see me.

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