Who else is sick to death of the rotation bug?

I gotta say I AM. Every build that has a cut prim in it is borked.

(At least I think it's cuts that are the problem.)
Domed roofs(cut sphere)
Stairs (cut box)
Corner walls (cut/hollowed boxes)
I even had simple cylinders do it.

Not all but most, spring back by .010 or .025 making it impossible, and I mean impossible, to finish anything to quality standard.
I don't know what buyers think when they see my crooked prims but I hate it. I want better.

I've tried the shift/copy and other things to no avail and wasted many hours re-trying.

Does anyone think that this will be fixed some time and how long do you think it will be?
Maybe when we get to version 2?
When havok 2 is done?
Next update.... who knows?
I just don't wanna go build anymore. I'm a bit of a perfectionist I like to do my best but...
Anybody found a technique that gets around it?

Is this the same problem that goes back as far as 2003?
search "rotation bug"


*Goes back to banging wall with head trying to knock it square*

I've not experienced this either on my own plots or in sandboxes, so maybe its local to your sim. Try building in a sandbox and see if it still happens

Have you tried the newest "first look" client mentioned on the blog?

I recently heard someone cheerfully exclaim they were edit/rotating things better than they had in a long time last night...

LOL if your "sick to death of bugs" Dont try "first look"
-LW

Cut been broken so long i cant remember the first time it got mentioned , they havnt fixed anything for building bugs in ....well since when?, yes keep piling up new things to cover up and dazzle instead of fixing LL, oh and dont listen to the content creators what good would that do

I've indeed suffered this issue with my attachments, leaving me quite reluctant to edit my avatar. I haven't noticed the issue coming up with the house I've been building, which could be because it always stays in place, rather than going in and out of the inventory.

I sure hope Jopsy knows what (s)he's talking about. It would be just wonderful to hear that someone's working on it.

Pshaw... don't trust my opinion on anything except particles.

I gather that the firstlook client is an urgent priority for LL, so that SL will run under MS-Vista. There's *lots* being changed in this client... which will undoubtedly result in a fair degree of hand-wringing when it gets deployed.

It would be best for us all to have as many people using the newest first look clients and providing feedback on it BEFORE it gets released as the main viewer.

It probably would.

otoh, most professional software companies (and LL is, at least for now, in the business of making software, albeit as a loss-leader) pay people to beta-test their software. As a paying customer, I feel angry enough at having an unstable client to use as it is, without also being asked to beta test the supposed fix free of charge. LL has the cash-flow diagram upside down when it comes to who pays for my time in beta-testing.

Keep in mind that LL only charges US$ and L$ for specific things:

1) the right to own some quantity of land and earn a stipend
2) specific LindeX transactions.
3) "Brand New" land just released by LL
4) "Newly Minted Lindens" bought from LL (instead of other peeps) on the linex.
5) Account re-activation/alteration.

1) uploads
2) classifieds
3) ratings
4) land listings

We don't pay for the client, server, bandwidth or storage, that's all free.

I know LL has testers but the permutations and combinations of features and uses is so numerous particularly in SL that it is mathematically impossible to test them all comprehensively.

Software that is only tested by its creator tends to have 1 bug per 100 lines of code. Well tested software still has on average 1 bug per 1,000 lines of code. Even NASA has 1 in 10,000 lines. You can not expect perfection from humans no matter how much you pay them.

I have found i get the "rotation issue" more often when im getting packet loss or on a busy sim.

Johnii

My main bitch with rotation is when I rotate something and get it set where I want it and click away like to move the object it will rotate 90 degrees in a random axis for no apparent reason. Making me have to go back in and rotate it again.

When I need rotates to be precise, I break out a script and use llSetRot. Much more reliable than fussing with client updates, and avoids some strange gimbal lock behavior in the edit handles.

That's like praising Microsoft because minesweeper is free. Or perhaps a better analogy would be Internet Explorer. It's called a loss-leader in economic parlance.

Ah, but you get neither minesweeper nor IE, unless you paid for (or pirated) MS-windows.

You DO get the SL client and service without having to pay for anything.

There's a big difference between "Free with purchase" and "No purchase necessary."

Yea, the rotation was nerve-racking at first, until I began to use numbers for rotation and position. So much cleaner and precise. So the workaround for this is to use numerical entry, which will make your builds a whole lot better anyways.

Feel free to attack teh weakest part of my analogy whiel blatantly ignoring the strong part.

And yes, it is perfectly possibel to have MSIE without MS Windows.

The rotation issues I have, have nothing to do with packet loss as I can come back any time and I still cannot get the prim to square up.

I wonder if that is the bug I've seen.. On something I had a cut hollowed sphere in, every time I would simply click another prim in the linkset (with edit linked parts on)the whole thing would seem to rotate slightly. I think I was wearing it at the time. And the cut hollowed sphere was the parent prim.

I saw it in the first look viewer, a few versions back. Not sure if it still exists..

It's not only rotating or cutting prims. I was trying to edit the repeats on a texture and it kept bouncing back to the original settings. It finally took, but several minutes of my time was wasted. And I don't use First Look at all! Graphics load so slowly on that viewer that I can't stand it and working with textures using it is nearly impossible.

It is? Funny... they haven't produced a version since MSIE5 for macintosh... and even that wasn't IE5 compatible. It WAS bundled with MacOSX two or three versions ago, but no more.

Is there a linux release of IE out there that I some how overlooked?

Unless I'm very much mistaken... NO. You can NOT have MSIE without MS windows, not without going back in time technologically.

My point is... what are we paying for? The Container? (the operating system, or secondlife service)... or the content? (the bundled in pieces, land, lindex transactions)

With Microsoft it's "Pay at the door... and you get the rest of this stuff bundled in."

With Shopping Malls its "FREE at the door... pay for the services and products you opt to buy. Maybe park for free, maybe get validated with a purchase so you don't have to pay for parking ... or pay to get your car out of the garage."


With SecondLife it's "Free at the door... pay for the optional services associated with SecondLife, if you want."

And at a Carnival it's "Pay to park your car... Pay at the door.. pay at the optional services...

And ultimately... if you get bilked out of something you PAID for demand your money back. But like my point was to begin with...

We don't PAY MONEY to login to SecondLife. You can call that a loss-leader if you like, but folks are deluding themselves when they say "I'm not getting what I paid for" when they're complaining about the free parts of the service.



--
Sorry, missed your reply, until this thread got bumped.

Ok - some people might not have found this so for their benefit...

If you type a setting: size, number of repeats, rotation... then 'Enter' or click on another input box you often get the infuriating problem described here. BUT if you type a setting then DON'T 'Enter' or click elsewhere but instead click the 'X' to close the edit window the setting is accepted and not altered!!! I do this all the time when I am having this problem - it can be a pain if you have to do it a lot but it DOES work... have a go

Don't thank me just send money or chocolate!

Cat x

Actually, you are gamma testing. When you beta test the program hasnrt been publically released. Aftre the gold copy is made it is gamma testing. Alpha, beta gamma, get it?
And also this hasnt been done before with out static images. You cant compare this with Wow or even There because of the sheer amount of code, entworking and such taht going on away from your computer.

I wonder if the problem I have been seeing for the last couple weeks is what people are talking about?

I can edit a prim in a linkset, not EVER touching rotation (even just changing the texture), and it will rotate by a total of approximately 3 degrees on two different axes. I watch it rotate without my assistence, and it most often happens when I am done with that piece and move to the next. It has even happened when I am in edit linked prims mode and do nothing more than select a prim....

I spend hundreds of hours painstakingly lining up and rotating prims (as I am sure many others do), and this is just ABSOLUTELY FREAKING INSANE!!! Why the HELL do prims have to rotate by themselves on two different axes? Who on the dev team thought that was a good idea?

[EDITED TO ADD] I do not believe this is a quantization or standard drift issue... In many cases the things I am editing have been in their current state in and out of inventory for months without drifting or self-rotating... Now that I am a somewhat more accomplished builder I am attempting to improve many of my old builds.

f'ing signed.





since it's probably not appropriate to bump this thread with just that, even if it is quite sufficient to communicate my point of view...

i frequently run into the "clown gimbal" problem. Recent encounter: yesterday I started with a hollowed cut sphere, slightly dimpled, turn it upright. I want to rotate three of them around the vertical axis at equal rotations. Copy the prim, turn it 120 degrees. Tab out.... WHAM. WTH? I could swear that it sprung into it's new position with a cosmic "BOI-I-I-I-OING!!" For a while I tried to figure out if there was some rational reason why it was bugging out. But I failed to discern a rational explanation. Perhaps it was the circus music playing in my subconscious as I tried typing in different numbers manually, seeing what types of rotations would stick, how far i could rotate... et cetera, et f'ing cetera.

At least I was able to complete the simple task by simply not rotating the sphere, that is, leaving it so that the cut was on the horizontal axis. I copied three times, rotating each around the horizontal axis at 120deg apart, and it stuck. Link em, then flip the thing upright.

Maybe today I'll do more experiments with prim rotations to see if there are certain axes that "stick" rotations better than others.

I'll probably grok the bug in its entirety, at the precise moment LL comes out with a viewer that works properly. >__<

I'll have the mp3 of "Send In The Clowns" at the ready so I can celebrate the irony appropriately. Or perhaps I'll savor the occasion by scripting a large sharp prim to repeatedly stab my face as I lie on the ground and gesture spam that song from Benny Hill where time gets sped up and people slide around the screen in stop motion buffoonery. [/emo]