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Public Notice on my freebies

Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
03-25-2005 00:10
I've just realized that someone is selling one of my freebies (aka $1 at GNU) and after being initially gruffed by it, I realized I had neglected to put the following line in the notecard:

PLEASE DO NOT RESELL THESE FREE ITEMS - If you'd like to give any of the away for free at your store or wherever, IM me.


So, I've now updated the cards. ;) Please do not resell them. I don't like having my name listed as 'Creator' on something that I had zero influence on (the final product, anyway).



-end psa
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ArchTx Edo
Mystic/Artist/Architect
Join date: 13 Feb 2005
Posts: 1,993
Free stuff undermines the economy.
03-25-2005 10:24
From: Juro Kothari
I've just realized that someone is selling one of my freebies (aka $1 at GNU) and after being initially gruffed by it, I realized I had neglected to put the following line in the notecard:

PLEASE DO NOT RESELL THESE FREE ITEMS - If you'd like to give any of the away for free at your store or wherever, IM me.


So, I've now updated the cards. ;) Please do not resell them. I don't like having my name listed as 'Creator' on something that I had zero influence on (the final product, anyway).



-end psa


Devils advocate here: That is kind and generous of you to give things away. But why shouldn't the next person be able to sell it if you set the permissions to allow that?

If a person builds a store in a convenient location and fills it full of valuable and useful stuff, that person has invested alot of time, effort and income, including on going Linden Rent to maintain that facility. Its not unreasonable to charge a little for those things. The store is not selling your object so much as it is covering its overhead.

Actually, I think the people who are making stuff for free and giving it away are doing the rest of us, especially Noobs, a big disservice. I had hoped to start an architectural practice making unique low prim First Castles for First Land buyers, and charging a small fee for them. But there is little or no market for my product, because so many other apparantly more wealthy architects are giving there homes away, or selling them in GNU store for L$1.

I had hoped to start a small business and slowly grow into a larger one, hoping to make it pay for at least part of itself along the way. But with all the free stuff available it is almost impossible to start small.

Free stuff undermines the economy.

It also removes the incentive for Noobs to find some way to contribute to SL.
_____________________

VRchitecture Model Homes at http://slurl.com/secondlife/Shona/60/220/30
http://www.slexchange.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&MerchantID=2240
http://shop.onrez.com/Archtx_Edo
Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
03-25-2005 10:53
From: ArchTx Edo
Devils advocate here: That is kind and generous of you to give things away. But why shouldn't the next person be able to sell it if you set the permissions to allow that?

If a person builds a store in a convenient location and fills it full of valuable and useful stuff, that person has invested alot of time, effort and income, including on going Linden Rent to maintain that facility. Its not unreasonable to charge a little for those things. The store is not selling your object so much as it is covering its overhead.

Actually, I think the people who are making stuff for free and giving it away are doing the rest of us, especially Noobs, a big disservice. I had hoped to start an architectural practice making unique low prim First Castles for First Land buyers, and charging a small fee for them. But there is little or no market for my product, because so many other apparantly more wealthy architects are giving there homes away, or selling them in GNU store for L$1.

I had hoped to start a small business and slowly grow into a larger one, hoping to make it pay for at least part of itself along the way. But with all the free stuff available it is almost impossible to start small.

Free stuff undermines the economy.

It also removes the incentive for Noobs to find some way to contribute to SL.


When I started making freebies I did so becuase there was a lack of good quality low- to no-costs items available, and I realized how difficult it is to get setup with the small amount of money you have when you start the game. I don't care if people want to give them away for free, but there are three issues I have with selling them:

1. My name is listed as the creator and I have NO control over the final product. Call me whatever you like, but if my name is on it I want final say in what is put out there.

2. Since my name is listed as the creator, people often call me for 'technical support' of the object - even though it was purchased from someone else.

3. It ruins the spirit and intent of these creations.

I also have a personal objection to it in that a lot of times, people don't even modify the object, they just slap a price on it.

As for the perms issue - if you notice, there isn't one for 'free'. The only way to make something open is to allow copy/mod/trans. Unfortunately, this allows someone to put a price on it and sell it. Many people who have created free items have run into this issue and since we don't have a means of making it a perm value of $0 - they have quit distributing free items. It's a loss for the community as a whole.

Your example of a store trying to cover its costs doesn't really work. I have a store... I have to rent land, but I don't resell any items. You stated "The store is not selling your object so much as it is covering its overhead." if they weren't selling the item, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Your business will do fine - free items will not undermine anything. The downside to free items is that a lot of people have them. When someone first starts the game, its not as much of a concern, but as they go, they will want someone different, more unique. I would suggest you build those castles... the market for them is huge and largely untouched. Network and make friends - a lot of people who have shops may be willing to host a few of your items for free - thus removing any overhead costs for you.
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Lourdes Xavier
Newbishly Clueless
Join date: 2 Nov 2004
Posts: 37
03-25-2005 11:23
It's a blurry line.

However, ArchTx, make no mistake that any builds you or any other user may make while in SL are the intellectual properties of the creator. And no one has the right to exploit one's designs or creations unless the have been given express written licensing/verbal consent.

Whether or not the facilty which is making Juro's low-prim freebies available (and I'm very sure I know which one it is) is able to cover their operations/land costs is not Juro's concern, and, therefore, he can not be held accountable in any way for that. It's the prerogative of the land owner and their burden to bear alone. Being able to cover overhead is one of the most basic factors of business. If you can't balance it, you have no business being in, well, business.

As a creative professional, I understand Juro's concern with maintaining the integrity of one's designs. A designer that takes themselves and their work seriously desires that the original spirit (look and feel) of their developments remains constant. No one wants to see something they've spent time and resources making beautiful turned into a blinking red cube of an eyesore by someone with bad taste and a lack of design intelligence (which, I might add, is rampant in SL).

No doubt, as a rising builder, ArchTx, you too will face some of the challenges of maintaining your intellectual property rights and learn the steps in this dance.

Juro, I'm with you on this one, and wish you the best of luck in being able to resolve this matter.
Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
03-25-2005 12:13
Thanks for the support, Lourdes. This latest incident was resolved quickly and the person was very much a professional about it.

I'd just like to add that the purpose of this post was to notify other builders, in general.. not to single out any one person.


Again, if you'd like to give these items away for free at your store - IM me! :)
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ArchTx Edo
Mystic/Artist/Architect
Join date: 13 Feb 2005
Posts: 1,993
03-25-2005 12:49
Lourdes,

Its ArchTx not ArchEx. :-)

Please be assured I understand Juro's perspective on this, I would probably be irritated too. I am playing devils advocate here so don't hold it against me for putting forth another point of view. I think there are some issues where that are worth discussing and perhaps by so doing will help us, or at least me understand this better.

From: Lourdes Xavier
It's a blurry line.

However, ArchEx, make no mistake that any builds you or any other user may make while in SL are the intellectual properties of the creator. And no one has the right to exploit one's designs or creations unless the have been given express written licensing/verbal consent.


I don't believe that statement is entirely correct. When you put something out in the public domain with the permissions clearly indicating that it is free, and can be copied, modified, transfered or sold. Then you have given away our intellectual property.

There has been some outstanding programming written and given away, released into the public domain. Once that is done the creator looses control of it. No reasonable person would hold the original author accountable for what modifications are made to it by others later on.

To some degree here it sounds like Juro is trying to recapture his intellectual property after he already gave it away. Juro admits he forgot to put that statement in the note card.

From: someone
Whether or not the facilty which is making Juro's low-prim freebies available (and I'm very sure I know which one it is) is able to cover their operations/land costs is not Juro's concern, and, therefore, he can not be held accountable in any way for that.


I did not suggest Juro had any concern or accountability here.

From: someone
It's the prerogative of the land owner and their burden to bear alone. Being able to cover overhead is one of the most basic factors of business. If you can't balance it, you have no business being in, well, business.


Yes it is the most basic. Which is exactly why any good business man would charge something for anything that is distributed out of his store. He is in business, and if he doesn't do this he will go out of business.


From: someone
As a creative professional, I understand Juro's concern with maintaining the integrity of one's designs. A designer that takes themselves and their work seriously desires that the original spirit (look and feel) of their developments remains constant. No one wants to see something they've spent time and resources making beautiful turned into a blinking red cube of an eyesore by someone with bad taste and a lack of design intelligence (which, I might add, is rampant in SL).


If you want to maintain the integrity of your design, and freely distribute the object, then I suggest that you allow copy but
not modify or sell permissions. I agree with your statement regarding the rampant bad taste, especially when it comes to advertising.

From: someone

No doubt, as a rising builder, ArchEx, you too will face some of the challenges of maintaining your intellectual property rights and learn the steps in this dance. /QUOTE]

It seems that the Lindens have already made some of these decisions for us, and if you want to play in thier world, you have to live with thier rules. By their rules the first step of this dance would seem to be to not allow "modify", beyond that you have to choose between allowing "copy" or "transfer". You can't change those decisions after you have made them and released the object.
_____________________

VRchitecture Model Homes at http://slurl.com/secondlife/Shona/60/220/30
http://www.slexchange.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&MerchantID=2240
http://shop.onrez.com/Archtx_Edo
Lourdes Xavier
Newbishly Clueless
Join date: 2 Nov 2004
Posts: 37
03-25-2005 14:23
ArchTx, not ArchEx, eh? Noted and changed.

Feel free to play devil's advocate.

1/
From: Lourdes Xavier
It's a blurry line.

However, ArchEx, make no mistake that any builds you or any other user may make while in SL are the intellectual properties of the creator. And no one has the right to exploit one's designs or creations unless the have been given express written licensing/verbal consent.


It's entirely correct.

Making an item free does not mean someone who thinks its great can repackage it an sell it as their own - for a one-time yardsale, yes; as a business practice, no. That, in my eyes, would be called infringement.

Say I design a free tintable, modifyable, copyable shirt for newbies. I allow modify permissions to allow the owner of the clothing item to colour and re-lengthen the item as desired. I allow copy permissions to allow them to make multiple copies of coloured variations for their wardrobe and/or to pass on to other friends.

That isn't to say my making the item free means that anyone is allowed to now take my item and repackage it and systematically sell it as their own. You have not "given away" rights to your intellectual property. In this instance the systematic "repackager" is fraudulently claiming your work as their own and making a profit from it, therefore, violating the original spirit in which you made the article available. In essence, your thinking here, ArchTx, is taking away your own power as a creator/designer/builder.

2/

From: someone
If you want to maintain the integrity of your design, and freely distribute the object, then I suggest that you allow copy but not modify or sell permissions. I agree with your statement regarding the rampant bad taste, especially when it comes to advertising.


We're saying the same thing :). I can totally agree with you there.

Nice RL work (http://www.pbase.com/cptinrn/city_hall). Can't wait to see what you build in SL.