Conned by a SL builder--anything I can do?

My apologies if this is not the place for this thread, but I didnt' see any place better. I paid a $3000L deposit to a builder who has since done no work, pretended to be offline (when you can see in "Search" that they're not!) and ignored by IMs. What recourse do I have, if any? People like this ruin the reputations of legitimate builders everywhere in SL. TIA for any help,

A very angry Lebachai Vesta

If you've actually been scammed, there's unfortunately not much you can do. So you know though, I wouldn't put too much stock in what the presence server has to say, especially with the high concurrency that we've been seeing lately. That thing is notorious for saying people are online when they're off, and vise versa.

I don't know how long this has been going on with that builder, but if it's only been a day or two, I'd suggest giving it a little more time.

And next time, never pay in advance. In RL, deposits are perfectly reasonable, and you have legal recourse to recover your money if the contractor doesn't do his part. In SL, I've never seen any justification for charging a deposit, and even less for paying one. It's not like a builder is out any material costs if he finishes the project, and you decide not to pay up. Of course, time is money, but it's not like L$3000 pays for anything more than a few minutes of time in any real sense, and if you don't follow through on the purchase, the builder can always sell the same thing to someone else very easily.

If you do ever enter into a deposit arrangement, draw up a written contract. If the builder is unwilling to enter into a standard contract, then you know he's bad news. Business is business. Anyone who's actually planning on delivering should never have any problem putting that to paper.

Thanks--advice for next time. I paid the deposit on January 27th and haven't heard a thing back, plus I sent an IM last week at least once asking for a refund (politely, even!). So, even if this person isn't really online, it's a pretty poor way to do business.

I sometimes ask for a very modest deposit of L$250 to cover costs of texture uploads for the project and as a gesture from the customer that they are serious about the order and will pay on completion. I've had no disputes. Sorry about your builder. And thanks for posting as a warning to others. You could also post in resident answers and ask for suggestions. No doubt there are others who have has similar experiences.

Ok no i have something to say to this thing.

As Chosen said, the SL problems often fakes the entire Online Offline thing.

And i´m the builder which lebachai means

And now i would explain what happens.

Lebachai hire me to build a RL house Replik here in SL , she sends me links with Pictures, so i start building and show here the first version around 1.5 weeks later after we met us online again (i´m from germany so really different Timezones). She told me that this building is to big and i should make it smaller, and shure thats normally no problem, a few days after this my RL had made a really extrem turn to a bad direction, so i must first take care about RL. I dont receive your Im where you ask for a refund, only this Im´s from this day, and as you can see i send you your refund and also i explaind what happend and i said sorry.

I thin k RL is always First Life and when in my RL something happens what really costs much money and i dont mean 100 or 200 US$ then i must take care about this at first, and thats the reason why i wasnt online to finish you House and thats the reason why i cant answer any Im´s which i really dont have received, i dont get any EMail Information or see any Im form you this day, only the last from this day.

I hope my english is not too bad to understand.

A before i forget: Normally i finish my work in time. and i dont try to scamm anyone here

Wow, Motoko, I'm impressed. It was good of you to step forward, and try to set the record straight, especially considering your name had not been mentioned here. Nicely done.

Whatever it was that was going badly in RL for you, I hope it gets better.

thanks chosen, i have nothing to hide so i thought, why i dont should explain what happens exactly

Thanks for being so honest, Motoko, and I didn't want to mention names, so it is appreciated even more so. Thank you for the refund, and hopefully RL won't do your SL in again!

Lebachai Vesta

What about the reverse situation where a builder makes something and the person who comissioned it fails to maintain contact or pay on the agreed date? I know you can say just resell it on the market in your store, but potentially, some such comissions may not be resalable.

well if he didn't pay the commission then you can resel hehe because the contract is not fulfilled. Since the builder still has the item he is protected its usually the buyer that is in the most trouble. Also if a deposit is left the builder has that as well to keep. So in the end it may only be lost time. I can't think of a situation where it would not be resellable actually .. even if the customer for some reason provides a texture it has to be full mod or the builder can't give the finished product back (as in transfer)

Wow this is just like real life. You wait 3 months for the builders to turn up, pay them a fat deposit then they knock down a few walls, leave loads of crap everywhere and you don't see them for another 6 weeks.

Good on you Motoko for sorting this situation out and going public.

Really? I thought this had been taken away....?

Here's one quick example where a custom build would not be resalable... the build involves unique marks that incorporate content copyrighted by the person or group who comissioned the work.

that sound like a texture issue you can remove that easily enough and the rest is shapes that can be resold in a different colour

also if someone asked me to make them a copyrighted object ingame and wanted to claim copyright and then not pay for it ITS MINE lol i'm gonna set it as such anyhow if the guy wants to sue fine but then he will have to explain to a judge why he refused to pay for the work in the first place I dont know how many companies with that sort of copyright "worry" would pursue that in that light

maybe i'm "evil" but I would have no problem selling some thiefs work that he says is copyrighted cause i done went and built it. Even if he made me sign a contract the contract would state that he would pay for it and i would then upon full payment for services rendered not sell any copies as upon payment it would belong to him and not before.

I have done this with jacket logos i have put logos that people have createdon the back of their jackets they are theirs but until they pay me for the work THEY ARE MINE lol they pay me and the jacket is then theirs now. I maintain copies for these guys in case they loose theirs and dont sell them as part of the agreement, but the agreement isn't met on their end until they actualy pay me for the work i did as half of it is mine

so far no one has stiffed me and they are happy and i keep their copies of their jackets only to be given to designates that are personally sent to me by the logo creators.

Good example. In a case like that, I'd say a written contract is doubly called for, so that both parties are liable to honor their commitments.

as a builder I have had a few contracted builds that were never paid for. I havn't felt it neccessary to alway have a deposit and for the most part it as worked ok. One way to avoid getting scammed is hire me lol. Another, hire any other honest builders out there and do your homework if you are concerned see other builds or talk with others who can recommend a good honest builder. As we see there are variables that sometime come into play which we may never know of so be careful of assumptions. One other thing 3,000 equivalent is what? So a couple of hamburgers worth, hmmm... conning not paying well these days lol..

Has anyone considered how to go about possibly forming something like a builders' union or builder-specific BBB kind of thing? It would not have helped my situation, as it was not caused by an unscrupulous builder, but it would help with referrals and accountability. Several of the builders I have worked with have expressed an interest in such an organization because they have personally seen the work of builders who probably shouldn't be in the business. I'm not a builder (obviously!), but I would have been happy to have used such a service in my project to build an entire sim. Just a thought.

There has been several discussions regarding this very organization being formed in SL. It has pros and cons from the discussions I remember. The pros of course would be that it would allow the client to seek out a professional for the particular service. The cons would be that unfortunately there could be abuse of such a system by unscrupulous business owners creating alts to give undeserved ratings to these businesses and poor ratings to thier competetors.

I have had quite an interest in such a group for sometime now, however I think it would be unwise for me to take part as I am a business owner and would not want anyone thinking I have any influence over the rating system. Perhaps some wise residents will collaborate on such a system that would reduce the risk of influence by unscrupulous members of the business community. Also, if I remember correctly, we spoke on this at a Linden get together at the Linden Village sim with I believe it was Amber Linden (someone correct me if I am wrong) and there may be new tools coming soon that might help in such an organization.