Work with Google™ to create a in-world model editor like SketchUp®

Work with Google™ to create a in-world model editor just like "SketchUp®", with this ability, resident modeling will be more creative and less of a hassle to create.

Don't know who Google™ is goto: http://www.google.com
Don't know what SketchUp® is goto http://sketchup.google.com

Tell me what you think...

-b3ck (Sean Drillon)

I'm confused. How are you using Google Sketchup with SL? It's nice to see yet another free 3D modeling application come along, but how do you see this as a direct benefit for SL modeling?

Its much easier to say to do this then it is to do. You have to realize things are tied to the game engine and completely changing that around would take alot of time and money. Also making a tool system in that manner require shapes to be based on polygons. This requires more bandwidth to load more faces of the object thus increasing lag. These are basically the same tools one would get in a 3d program for a standard primative set by default. The current tools are so they can run it in real time format and have things load decently for the majority of people. Not just people with the ability to run 3d design programs.

Well I didn't say it would have to be exactly like SketchUp® just a little more easier to work with, the editing controls and the manner you have to edit a model in SL is quite time consuming, with SketchUp® you could make a house in minutes. If they can't implent the the way SketchUp® works, then why not let us import SketchUp® models? But since I don't do any type of coding I don't know how hard it would be, I was just making a suggestion.

thanks
-b3ck (Sean Drillon)

guessing sketch up uses some prebuilt stuff which require little work . kinda like TSO. But the sculpting bit is a big problem and anything that requires polygons is going to lag unless stored locally.

here is a frame I made that someone could use in SL for a sign, I made it in about 10 minutes.


http://www.diehardhost.com/google/su/models/sign_01.skp

I'm glad you're enjoying Sketchup, but I still fail to see what about it you think would benefit SL, or how you think the two programs could be used together collaboratively. So again, what exactly are you proposing?

Since my last reply here, I've had a little time to play with Sketchup (had never heard of it before today). In case anyone's curious, from what I can discern so far, it operates on a combination of pre-existing content, and extremely simplistic extrusion modeling. It would certainly be nice to do extrusions in SL, but of course there's really nothing extrusions can do that prims can't, assuming you have enough prims to work with. Were SL to allow extrusions, I'm sure there would need to be limitations on it to preserve bandwidth, just as there are limits on prim counts now. It's just a lot easier to make rules about prims since they're each individual objects than it would be about extrusions. Extrusions are a bit harder to quantify.


As for the model you posted, Sean, please don't take this the wrong way, but that took 10 full minutes to create? I'm hoping that included some trial and error time with the design, not all actual modeling time. Here's the same thing in SL. I tried as hard as I could to work at a liesurely pace, not deliberately going too fast. It took exactly 2 minutes and 10 seconds to make, and that included some time spent fighting with a couple build bugs in the latest update.



If I were to guess, I'd suggest that perhaps you're just more used to Sketchup's interface and toolset than you are SL's, so naturally Sketchup feels more comfortable to you at this point. Give SL modeling a few weeks, and you'll see that there's not much you can't do with it. Sure, it's different than traditional 3D modeling (so is Sketchup), but there are some very good reasons for that.

As a professional, I can promise you that learning to use SL's modeling tools fluently will help you become a better modeler both in and out of SL. The prim system forces you to think about the application of volume in 3D space in a very unique way, which in turn forces you to develop problem solving skills you ordinarily wouldn't. The end result (for me and for every other modeler I know who has spent any serious time in SL) is that your ploy counts per model go way down while the overall quality goes way up. Give it a little time. I'm sure you'll find the same to be true for you.

Very true I really didn't give SL's model editing a chance, I guess I'm just use to SketchUp® like you said, although it would be nice to see that "simplistic extrusion modeling" in SL I would rather work off of one box than to keep creating new ones. Thanks for the response I truly appreciate everyones feedback. If anyone else has any other feedback or ideas around this topic feel free to continue this thread.

Thanks again,
b3ck (Sean Drillon)


BTW where is the Sci-Fi Museum? =)

P.S. - Yea that 10 minutes was with trial and error, a lot actually, once I had everything lined up it took about 2 minutes just like yours =) Also mine had a few more detail to it =) But your sign model is nice, mind sending that to me VIA SL? -l8r

yuck.

SL is the first 3d design that I've been successful in. No need to change it's design/build interface, it is WONDERFUL (just stop breaking it

I am more hoping that Google creates a virtual world similar and better than SL using tools found in SketchUp or other easy to use 3d app.

The tools within SketchUp always seem very rudimentary at first glance but are actually very intuitive to use and far more easier to use than the parametric method we use in SL. For building linear things such as buildings, there is probably no faster method than this. The recent AutoCAD 2007 even has many functions ripped off from SketchUp.

Streaming geometry data isn't as lag inducing as many keep preaching. Textures are actually much larger than geometry data.

So, my bet is, it will never happen in SL. But can happen with Googleworlds.

That was another thing I would like to see heh ... "GoogleWorlds" has a nice ring to it, and I am sure your right it's the textures that lag, one reason I know this is if I turn off the textures in a large model in SketchUp® and just have the shades of colors everything runs much smoother. But I don't think Google™ will ever get into what SL has to offer us.

-b3ck

Uhm...

Second Life is closed-source. How do you propose someone create an "in-world model editor just like Sketchup?" Using LSL? Surely you jest.


And how is this significantly different than some of the other efforts along these lines, like the ehm... libsecondlife and the offline builders?

I apologize for being unspecific in my proposal. I just wanted to propose that it would be nice to have the in-world model editor simular to Google™ SketchUp®, basically have "simplistic extrusion modeling" but I don't think it would be possible "in-world".

Now if Linden Labs created a offline modeler for SL that would simulate the way Google™ SketchUp® works and be able to upload the model and place it in the SL world that would be great, then they wouldn't have to change any code in the SL world.

But like I said before I am no programmer, I wouldn't have the slightest clue on what can be done or what cannot, I can only propose ideas and see what people have to say about them.

Thanks for the feedback,
b3ck (Sean Drillon)

Join the crowd, Sean I've been wanting an offline builder since I got here. Even if it had limits for prim counts or something. The only problem I see with it is, once you release that to the public its only a matter of time before someone hacks it, finds a way to cause trouble or just plain ol' rip it off.

The libsecondlife group has an awesome, several hundred prim headquarters that was created entirely in prim.Blender, an offline builder. Check it out at http://slurl.com/secondlife/Albata/22/66/24/?title=libsecondlife

Ok, that's not _entirely_ true. The one prim chandelier was created with a secret weapon in our arsenal .

Heh. Heh. Heh.... clicky. It's not Linden-made, but...


Speaking of, any chance I can get a public link on that for the tool thread? The LSL importer has been ahh... eaten by this last patch.

The irony of the creator being trapped in his own tool is... well. Inescapable.

this has been my experience as well. fiddling around in second life has made me a more efficient 3d modeller on other platforms.

i wonder if this lesson will still be experienced once there is a much more robust rendering engine and prim limits are inconsequentially high.

primitives allow for a more easily understood limitation on polygons/geometry. how would allowing meshes be governed to prevent people from uploading a disaster?

Yes, primitives are far easier to quantify, and probably one of the reasons why SL uses it. However, if some self funded organization were intending to create a virtual world for serious purposes, it wouldn't be an issue, since objects will not be built by laypeople.

So, as I said, it will not happen to SL anytime soon. But others would do it.