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oblong sculpties and LOD

Fizz Savira
Registered User
Join date: 22 Oct 2008
Posts: 34
12-08-2009 13:31
I have observed that in 1.23.5, that the viewer does NOT perform any LOD reductions on oblong sculpties. Here is a sample snapshot.



The black shoe, one of my older creations, is made entirely with regular sculpties. The red shoe, uses oblong sculpties (32x128, 128x32) for several of its pieces, but not for the heel spike or the heel hider (which is why the foot is showing through).

I'm wondering if this is considered a bug or a "feature". From my perspective, it's wonderful. The viewer no longer trashes sculpties, and allows builders like me to take advantage of every vertex in the sculpty.

However, if this is actually going to be fixed, or if it's just a quirk of a my viewer, then I'd really like to know what I should design to. Also, if there's an open JIRA on this matter, I'd love to know it's number so I can watch it.

Thanks!
Seph DaSilva
Registered User
Join date: 26 Apr 2005
Posts: 27
RenderVolumeLODFactor
01-24-2010 15:33
Relevant to sculpts, I searched the forums for this and did not find it. I'm sharing where I can. The following is to CHANGE LOD DISTANCE. It doesn't hurt performance at all, and (finally!) makes sculpts look better from farther distances.

1. Show the “Advanced” menu with Ctrl-Alt-D, or Opt-Ctrl-D on a Mac.
2. Select “debug settings” near the bottom.
3. In the blank space, copy and paste the word:

RenderVolumeLODFactor

4. Default (crappy) appearance is 1.25. I recommend 4.0.

Ref page:
http://rehula.wordpress.com/2009/02/14/sculpt-users-addict-tip-about-lod-sculpted-prim/

Ref image (save, share!):
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a194/Silverdark/screens/sl_lod_debug_fix.jpg
Ceera Murakami
Texture Artist / Builder
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 7,750
01-24-2010 16:41
That change LOD trick sounds wonderful, but for someone designing sculpties, they need to see the sculpties as the default client will show them, or they will be in for a rude surprise (and many customer complaints) when very few others see their work as "perfect" as they do themselves.
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Sorry, LL won't let me tell you where I sell my textures and where I offer my services as a sim builder. Ask me in-world.
Imnotgoing Sideways
Can't outlaw cute! =^-^=
Join date: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 4,694
01-24-2010 17:34
Grumpy Audience: Your build looks horrible on my screen. (>_<;)

Bad Builder: My work is perfect if you obey my settings rules. (>_>;)

Yeah, NO! (^_^)y
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Somewhere in this world; there is someone having some good clean fun doing the one thing you hate the most. (^_^)y


http://slurl.com/secondlife/Ferguson/54/237/94
Ephraim Kappler
Reprobate
Join date: 9 Jul 2007
Posts: 1,946
01-24-2010 23:36
Is the OP sure that there wasn't a good deal more doubling, tripling or even quadrupling of vertex points on the oblong sculpt around the edges, for instance? That would certainly help to hold the shape better. Also, LOD may be increased if the bounding box on a sculpt is considerably larger than the visible object so it would be worthwhile comparing that on both examples.

As for increasing RenderVolumeLODFactor in Debug settings, I'm with Ceera and Immy: just don't do it. LOD helps optimise computer processing power, thereby increasing client performance, so there is good reason for not obliging residents to tamper with it.

Accommodating LOD is a design consideration of sculpting. An object requiring increased LOD is simply bad design in the same way that an overly detailed yet virtually invisible high resolution texture on the face of a wrist watch will hog bandwidth for no good reason.
Fizz Savira
Registered User
Join date: 22 Oct 2008
Posts: 34
01-31-2010 00:00
From: Ephraim Kappler
Is the OP sure that there wasn't a good deal more doubling, tripling or even quadrupling of vertex points on the oblong sculpt around the edges, for instance? That would certainly help to hold the shape better. Also, LOD may be increased if the bounding box on a sculpt is considerably larger than the visible object so it would be worthwhile comparing that on both examples.


Yes, the builder (me) is sure. No doubling or tripling was done. The sculpts, with few exceptions, fill the bounding box completely so there is no resolution loss on the sculpt map, other than the usual limits of RGB values. I am careful with LOD so that things don't degrade too badly, but in my example image, I was attempting to create maximum degradation to see how bad things could in theory get. I only posted the solid view of the meshes, but I also looked at them in wire-frame view to see that the oblong sculpts meshes weren't being affected. That's what lead to my posting the question :)

From: Ephraim Kappler
As for increasing RenderVolumeLODFactor in Debug settings, I'm with Ceera and Immy: just don't do it. LOD helps optimise computer processing power, thereby increasing client performance, so there is good reason for not obliging residents to tamper with it.


Actually I wholeheartedly disagree. I include a notecard with my products indicating how to set the LOD for the client to get best viewing results. I believe that for a great many users, the default settings are too conservative. It's too bad the lindens don't have some better algorithms for choosing those values instead of just dumping in a blind (poor) value.

From: Ephraim Kappler
Accommodating LOD is a design consideration of sculpting. An object requiring increased LOD is simply bad design in the same way that an overly detailed yet virtually invisible high resolution texture on the face of a wrist watch will hog bandwidth for no good reason.


And I wholeheartedly agree with this point, hence my testing :) Really, the issues aren't black and white, but are more in the middle. One of the things I've learned as that the default settings are too limited. The sculpt maps will degrade almost immediately so that even at normal distance viewing levels, the whole detail is missing. An example case, was a friend and I were examining a new shoe of mine, and she complained that it was messy looking. I had her send me a snapshot, and sure enough, LOD was kicking in. We were standing next to each other talking.

I work hard to make my sculpt maps LOD resistant, but there's only so much you can do with limited mesh resolution. And for some surfaces, like my shoes, you need that resolution to achieve a high quality result.

Regardless, there is still no answer from the powers-that-be on the intended state of affairs with regards to oblongs.