Second Life Forums Archive - Sudden Phantom piece

MissWendy Divine

Registered User

Join date: 28 Dec 2004

Posts: 14

05-28-2005 23:42

Okay.. maybe I am missing something. My partner and I have a problem with sudden phantom pieces.

I rez a box.. make it 10 x 10.. then copy selected to make more boxes. .. and make more until I make a building. Link the parts and call it an Object. My partner does not own any pieces nor are there any textures on them.

All the pieces are set, by the numbers to placement. I walk across my new floor and suddenly I fall thru it. AS if the prim is phantom or a piece of the prim is. Phantom is NOT checked on the object or the prim but I fall through anyway.

The only work around i have found is to delete the prim and to replace it. I copy from the same exact original, only this time the prim is solid and it works correctly.

This has happened on boats, buildings, and all kinds of things. The only common denomenator seems to be they are copies of another piece that I too have created. But I am not 100% sure it is only on copies - and the second copy works fine.

Anyone else have this happen? or know a better less frustrating work-around?

_____________________

People used to tease me and say I looked at the world through Rose-Colored Glasses. I corrected them and said it was a Rose-Colored Rifle Scope. Now, they don't tease me anymore.

Chosen Few

Alpha Channel Slave

Join date: 16 Jan 2004

Posts: 7,496

05-29-2005 02:33

I had this happen once, about a week ago. Like you, the only solution I found was to replace the prim.

_____________________

.

Land now available for rent in Indigo. Low rates. Quiet, low-lag mainland sim with good neighbors. IM me in-world if you're interested.

Eboni Khan

Misanthrope

Join date: 17 Mar 2004

Posts: 2,133

05-29-2005 08:36

This happens to me all the time on my buggy home sim. This never happens anywhere else. The only solution is to replace the prim.

_____________________

Olmy Seraph

Valued Member

Join date: 1 Nov 2004

Posts: 502

05-29-2005 22:40

I haven't seen this happen for ages. I think it's a timing related issue where Havok gets confused and misses objects. Are you perhaps building near a sim border? Sometimes that can mess things up. Other than that, I guess there's not much you can do about it. If you can repeat this on demand, I'd say you should file a bug report, and probably IM Kona Linden so he can come look at it while you have a reproducable case.

_____________________

Some people are like Slinkies... not really good for anything, but they sure bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.

Blueman Steele

Registered User

Join date: 28 Dec 2004

Posts: 1,038

it's happened to me

05-30-2005 01:07

yes recently happened to me while building.

Zelinna Jacques

Whispers by Zelinna

Join date: 17 Aug 2004

Posts: 76

05-30-2005 01:57

From: MissWendy Divine

Okay.. maybe I am missing something. My partner and I have a problem with sudden phantom pieces.

I rez a box.. make it 10 x 10.. then copy selected to make more boxes. .. and make more until I make a building. Link the parts and call it an Object. My partner does not own any pieces nor are there any textures on them.

All the pieces are set, by the numbers to placement. I walk across my new floor and suddenly I fall thru it. AS if the prim is phantom or a piece of the prim is. Phantom is NOT checked on the object or the prim but I fall through anyway.

Hi... I reported this a bit ago...and this..was the responds answer I had received.. hope it helps

Recently, you've reported that you were having issues prims going
phantom. There are two types of issues regarding phantoming prims.
Hopefully one of these two explanations will address your issue.

First issue:

Parent/root prim of an object going phantom after being resized.

Repro sample:
- create a cube prim, goto Object tab of Edit window
- under Size, resize its dimensions to x: 10.0, y: 10.0, z: 0.010,
creating a big flat panel
- shift drag (hold down SHIFT, then drag one of the axis arrows)this
prim and create 3 more of this prim (or hit CTRL-D to make duplicates)
- place prims side by side, and link them together (left-click on each
prim while holding down SHIFT key...after noting that all 4 prims are
highlighted, go to TOOLS on the menu bar, then select LINK)
- select Edit Linked Parts, then select Stretch
- left click on the parent/root prim of the now linked object (it's the
prim that is highlighted with a yellow glow around it, as opposed to
the
white highlight of the child prims)
- resize the x & y coordinates under Size to 5.0, or drag both the red
and green scaling boxes to make the panel smaller
- close Edit window

Results:
In some cases when the parent prim of a linked object that's made up of
at least 3 prims is resized, the parent prim becomes phantom. This is
due to Havok's calculations getting messed up and how thin the parent
prim is.

Workaround: If the prim (along it's Z axis) is made thicker by at
least
0.100, phantom usually doesn't occur. You can also unlink the object
and
relink the object together after resizing your parent prim...OR unlink
one other child prim of the object and then relink that child prim back
to the object so that it's now the parent/root prim of the object and
not the prim you had resized.

Second issue:

Placing a prim across a sim border (ie. a floor panel intended as a
walkway) will have issues of phantom. Per Ben Linden:
A prim can not exist on two sims at once. All of the physics
calculations are done on the sim, and we don't have a good fast way of
communicating collision data over sim borders - so you can only collide
with things that are on the same sim as you are. When people build on
sim edges, what often happens is a prim will be overlapping the sim
border - it will look like you should be walking on it - but in
reality,
that prim is on another sim, & the sim you are on has no responsibility
to make sure you stay in the air. So you fall through (phantom). When
we build Linden Roads, we do a couple of tricks to make sure that there
is always a prim on the same sim you are on. This involves overlapping
the border with a few alpha'd reinforcements - but it means you won't
fall through.

The phantom issue explained do not always occur consistently, but thus
far, the repro provided works consistently. The issues with Havok will
hopefully be rectified when Havok 2 is implemented in the near upcoming
releases of SL (possibly 1.7), but in the meantime residents will need
to utilize the current workarounds or work within the current
limitations in SL at this time. Understand that as SL is updated &
revised to meet new specs and scaling growth, there will be issues
arising unexpectedly. As much as we try to test for obvious glitches,
covering every possible permutation of an open ended environment we
created is currently improbable. Feel free to IM me or any Liaison
Linden for further assistance if you're still having issues. Thank you
very much for your patience regarding this matter.

_____________________

.......... Beauty is within all of us

Laukosargas Svarog

Angel ?

Join date: 18 Aug 2004

Posts: 1,304

05-30-2005 05:26

Yep! this just happened on one of my trees. Part it of has gone phantom even though the edit window says it is not.

Azazel Czukor

Deep-fried & sanctified

Join date: 30 Jan 2005

Posts: 417

05-30-2005 06:28

I've had a version of the phantom problem a number of times. I'm not sure if the resizing plays into it, but I will link a multi-prim object and take it into my inventory. Upon re-rez it will be phantom. I go to uncheck the Phantom box and I get a message stating that I can't enable Physics on objects that intersect each other.

I don't know too much more about it besides that I've had it happen in three different sims, and Brent and Kona Linden have been able to reproduce it.

_____________________

Vote YES on Prop 348 - confirmation popup message on all land sales - don't get screwed over! Click here to vote! Or, Click here to discuss!

"The weapon of choice is snark." - Hamlet Linden

Echinacea Wallaby

Registered User

Join date: 9 Mar 2005

Posts: 34

06-01-2005 06:45

I have had this same problem twice in the past week. One minute it's there, the next minute it's not. I don't understand it either - someone please enlighten us!

Shack Dougall

self become: Object new

Join date: 9 Aug 2004

Posts: 1,028

06-01-2005 15:52

From: Laukosargas Svarog

Yep! this just happened on one of my trees. Part it of has gone phantom even though the edit window says it is not.

Just happened to me, too.

I relogged (thinking that it might be a client issue), but that didn't help.

I was editing sub-parts of the linked set that contains it just before I noticed the problem.

In my case, it's the root prim that went "phantom". I tried to unlink it and relink it, but it was giving me the "prims too far apart" message when I try to relink.

So I shift copied the "phantom" prim. The original is what gets dragged in a shift copy, so I just deleted it and then relinked the copy. This seems to have fixed it.

Makes me wonder tho about the "prims too far apart" message. I've been getting that alot when things get goofy. When I know that they are definitely not too far apart and some of the prims have reverted to previous states after editing a linked set with the build tool.

_____________________

Prim Composer for 3dsMax
-- complete offline builder for prims and sculpties in 3ds Max
http://liferain.com/downloads/primcomposer/

Hierarchical Prim Archive (HPA)
-- HPA is is a fully-documented, platform-independent specification for storing and transferring builds between Second Life-compatible platforms and tools.
https://liferain.com/projects/hpa

Welcome to the Second Life Forums Archive

Sudden Phantom piece - not marked phantom

Sudden Phantom piece - not marked phantom
MissWendy Divine Registered User Join date: 28 Dec 2004 Posts: 14	05-28-2005 23:42 Okay.. maybe I am missing something. My partner and I have a problem with sudden phantom pieces. I rez a box.. make it 10 x 10.. then copy selected to make more boxes. .. and make more until I make a building. Link the parts and call it an Object. My partner does not own any pieces nor are there any textures on them. All the pieces are set, by the numbers to placement. I walk across my new floor and suddenly I fall thru it. AS if the prim is phantom or a piece of the prim is. Phantom is NOT checked on the object or the prim but I fall through anyway. The only work around i have found is to delete the prim and to replace it. I copy from the same exact original, only this time the prim is solid and it works correctly. This has happened on boats, buildings, and all kinds of things. The only common denomenator seems to be they are copies of another piece that I too have created. But I am not 100% sure it is only on copies - and the second copy works fine. Anyone else have this happen? or know a better less frustrating work-around? _____________________ People used to tease me and say I looked at the world through Rose-Colored Glasses. I corrected them and said it was a Rose-Colored Rifle Scope. Now, they don't tease me anymore.
Chosen Few Alpha Channel Slave Join date: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 7,496	05-29-2005 02:33 I had this happen once, about a week ago. Like you, the only solution I found was to replace the prim. _____________________ . Land now available for rent in Indigo. Low rates. Quiet, low-lag mainland sim with good neighbors. IM me in-world if you're interested.
Eboni Khan Misanthrope Join date: 17 Mar 2004 Posts: 2,133	05-29-2005 08:36 This happens to me all the time on my buggy home sim. This never happens anywhere else. The only solution is to replace the prim. _____________________
Olmy Seraph Valued Member Join date: 1 Nov 2004 Posts: 502	05-29-2005 22:40 I haven't seen this happen for ages. I think it's a timing related issue where Havok gets confused and misses objects. Are you perhaps building near a sim border? Sometimes that can mess things up. Other than that, I guess there's not much you can do about it. If you can repeat this on demand, I'd say you should file a bug report, and probably IM Kona Linden so he can come look at it while you have a reproducable case. _____________________ Some people are like Slinkies... not really good for anything, but they sure bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.
Blueman Steele Registered User Join date: 28 Dec 2004 Posts: 1,038	it's happened to me 05-30-2005 01:07 yes recently happened to me while building.
Zelinna Jacques Whispers by Zelinna Join date: 17 Aug 2004 Posts: 76	05-30-2005 01:57 From: MissWendy Divine Okay.. maybe I am missing something. My partner and I have a problem with sudden phantom pieces. I rez a box.. make it 10 x 10.. then copy selected to make more boxes. .. and make more until I make a building. Link the parts and call it an Object. My partner does not own any pieces nor are there any textures on them. All the pieces are set, by the numbers to placement. I walk across my new floor and suddenly I fall thru it. AS if the prim is phantom or a piece of the prim is. Phantom is NOT checked on the object or the prim but I fall through anyway. Hi... I reported this a bit ago...and this..was the responds answer I had received.. hope it helps Recently, you've reported that you were having issues prims going phantom. There are two types of issues regarding phantoming prims. Hopefully one of these two explanations will address your issue. First issue: Parent/root prim of an object going phantom after being resized. Repro sample: - create a cube prim, goto Object tab of Edit window - under Size, resize its dimensions to x: 10.0, y: 10.0, z: 0.010, creating a big flat panel - shift drag (hold down SHIFT, then drag one of the axis arrows)this prim and create 3 more of this prim (or hit CTRL-D to make duplicates) - place prims side by side, and link them together (left-click on each prim while holding down SHIFT key...after noting that all 4 prims are highlighted, go to TOOLS on the menu bar, then select LINK) - select Edit Linked Parts, then select Stretch - left click on the parent/root prim of the now linked object (it's the prim that is highlighted with a yellow glow around it, as opposed to the white highlight of the child prims) - resize the x & y coordinates under Size to 5.0, or drag both the red and green scaling boxes to make the panel smaller - close Edit window Results: In some cases when the parent prim of a linked object that's made up of at least 3 prims is resized, the parent prim becomes phantom. This is due to Havok's calculations getting messed up and how thin the parent prim is. Workaround: If the prim (along it's Z axis) is made thicker by at least 0.100, phantom usually doesn't occur. You can also unlink the object and relink the object together after resizing your parent prim...OR unlink one other child prim of the object and then relink that child prim back to the object so that it's now the parent/root prim of the object and not the prim you had resized. Second issue: Placing a prim across a sim border (ie. a floor panel intended as a walkway) will have issues of phantom. Per Ben Linden: A prim can not exist on two sims at once. All of the physics calculations are done on the sim, and we don't have a good fast way of communicating collision data over sim borders - so you can only collide with things that are on the same sim as you are. When people build on sim edges, what often happens is a prim will be overlapping the sim border - it will look like you should be walking on it - but in reality, that prim is on another sim, & the sim you are on has no responsibility to make sure you stay in the air. So you fall through (phantom). When we build Linden Roads, we do a couple of tricks to make sure that there is always a prim on the same sim you are on. This involves overlapping the border with a few alpha'd reinforcements - but it means you won't fall through. The phantom issue explained do not always occur consistently, but thus far, the repro provided works consistently. The issues with Havok will hopefully be rectified when Havok 2 is implemented in the near upcoming releases of SL (possibly 1.7), but in the meantime residents will need to utilize the current workarounds or work within the current limitations in SL at this time. Understand that as SL is updated & revised to meet new specs and scaling growth, there will be issues arising unexpectedly. As much as we try to test for obvious glitches, covering every possible permutation of an open ended environment we created is currently improbable. Feel free to IM me or any Liaison Linden for further assistance if you're still having issues. Thank you very much for your patience regarding this matter. _____________________ .......... Beauty is within all of us
Laukosargas Svarog Angel ? Join date: 18 Aug 2004 Posts: 1,304	05-30-2005 05:26 Yep! this just happened on one of my trees. Part it of has gone phantom even though the edit window says it is not.
Azazel Czukor Deep-fried & sanctified Join date: 30 Jan 2005 Posts: 417	05-30-2005 06:28 I've had a version of the phantom problem a number of times. I'm not sure if the resizing plays into it, but I will link a multi-prim object and take it into my inventory. Upon re-rez it will be phantom. I go to uncheck the Phantom box and I get a message stating that I can't enable Physics on objects that intersect each other. I don't know too much more about it besides that I've had it happen in three different sims, and Brent and Kona Linden have been able to reproduce it. _____________________ Vote YES on Prop 348 - confirmation popup message on all land sales - don't get screwed over! Click here to vote! Or, Click here to discuss! "The weapon of choice is snark." - Hamlet Linden
Echinacea Wallaby Registered User Join date: 9 Mar 2005 Posts: 34	06-01-2005 06:45 I have had this same problem twice in the past week. One minute it's there, the next minute it's not. I don't understand it either - someone please enlighten us!
Shack Dougall self become: Object new Join date: 9 Aug 2004 Posts: 1,028	06-01-2005 15:52 From: Laukosargas Svarog Yep! this just happened on one of my trees. Part it of has gone phantom even though the edit window says it is not. Just happened to me, too. I relogged (thinking that it might be a client issue), but that didn't help. I was editing sub-parts of the linked set that contains it just before I noticed the problem. In my case, it's the root prim that went "phantom". I tried to unlink it and relink it, but it was giving me the "prims too far apart" message when I try to relink. So I shift copied the "phantom" prim. The original is what gets dragged in a shift copy, so I just deleted it and then relinked the copy. This seems to have fixed it. Makes me wonder tho about the "prims too far apart" message. I've been getting that alot when things get goofy. When I know that they are definitely not too far apart and some of the prims have reverted to previous states after editing a linked set with the build tool. _____________________ Prim Composer for 3dsMax -- complete offline builder for prims and sculpties in 3ds Max http://liferain.com/downloads/primcomposer/ Hierarchical Prim Archive (HPA) -- HPA is is a fully-documented, platform-independent specification for storing and transferring builds between Second Life-compatible platforms and tools. https://liferain.com/projects/hpa