So where are all the scripters?

I don't care about all the big numbers to see how many residents SL has. I go by the smaller ones, how many users are online at one time. When I was last here a few months ago hitting 5,000 members online at the same time was a milestone. Yet with the smaller number of active residents, this Scripting Forum was hopping with activity. Umpteen jillion noobie type questions a day, but also a lot of threads that delved deeper into both LSL and also it's interaction with the simulator. Competitions on a regular basis to see who could boil a script down to it's very essence and get the best performance out of it.

So where is everyone now. There should be a 10 to 20 fold increase of traffic here and so many new names. But I don't see them. I am pleased to see some of the older names here, still helping new ones to learn. There are also some newer, very active members who are helping and that is a delight to see. But where are all of the scripting noobies at?

I was thinking that it might be because the education system is so pared down now. So many classes when I was first learning and once you find you can learn one thing, you naturally have the confidence to learn something else. But I looked and although not as many, there are still classes around and some excellent scripting classes also. Could it be that the mentality it takes to be a scripter is also the type that enjoys peeking into the source? I enjoy doing both, but then again, the source wasn't released until after I learned LSL.

Any ideas anyone?

Random thoughts:

Maybe they are using search and the Wikis, and we've accumulated a sort of critical mass of basic information and example scripts such that the need for new threads with questions has fallen off?

Maybe something has tilted the demographic toward users who enjoy their SL perfectly well without needing to script things?

Maybe there's a perception that everything useful has been done, or somewhat related, that everything has been done which doesn't require advanced knowledge/experience/access to external tools for HTTP and such?

Maybe the forums at large are suffering since LL has sort of stopped promoting them, and large numbers of new people either aren't aware of them or think they are unimportant?

I dunno.

Unfortunately I think I might know part of the problem. Unless it has changed, you have to have payment info on file to access the forums. Don't know who's assinine idea that was. The people who need the forum info the most are the new residents, of which many are free accounts. Looks like it would be better to open the forum to everyone. Stimulate the creative flow, etc. Give a reason for a person to want to at least buy a 512 to have something to experiment on. I agree with most of everything LL does with the forum here including the moderation and getting rid of General. I just can't agree with excluding the majority of residents.

on almost anything i involve myself with first place i go is the forums to see what's up and how things work

in SL's case there is no official documentation, little inworld help (little notecards and hour long 101 classes only can do so much) and no where to really turn to UNLESS you come here, and for content creation this place is jam packed full of info

but now you must provide a CC# to read, communicate and function? nice little community there isnt it?

wish they just go back to the old days, 10 bucks for a basic lifetime membership with an av, it was so much simpler, kept greifers down (unless they really wanted to spend 100+ $ on retarded nonsense), and didnt create a second class citizen

When I was first learning LSL, and wanting to share as I went, I set up a little in-world free group called Free Scripter. The purpose was for people who don't mind scripting questions or writing the odd little script here and there. Or just listening in to see how people were solving their issues. Not as valuable as this forum by a long shot, but it has some interesting activity once in a while and is up to about 160 members. Maybe that would be an alternative for newbies as well.

When did SL start requiring having a money information recorded just to use the forums, even for free accounts?

I was on SL for a month before I bothered to post that info in order to access these forums. It could be that a lot of the newer users just don't bother with the forums because of it, and the existing users don't really need the help.

Or it could be that fewer new users are coming on after they first login and get frustrated for various reasons and just quit, and never really get into scripting.

I am not sure at what point they made it a requirement. I do know that it has been that way since the time they allowed a person to create an account without using a CC. I have only seen it mentioned a couple of times by a Linden and both times it was Torley expressing surprise that the forum was closed to residents without the payment info.

Am I wrong, has it changed and the forums are open to all residents now? Guess I'll create an alt and check.

Nope, no change. Can not log into the forums without payment info. Per forum log in page:



PS; Just incase anyone is interested. The names OnMy Back and Menstrual Flow had already been taken.

I agree with you.

But that 512 bit is another bit of linden logic that I don't understand.

Why did they create a set of tiers for tax rates for land? Why not simply charge on a per square meter basis? Right now, people can own X meters and add to it just up to the next tier level, at which they really won't want to since that 1 extra square meter will increase their average cost on what they already own.

Isn't it a royal pain to have to calculate the levels of tiers and then guess at which is going to be the most profitable?

Wouldn't it be a lot simpler to simply figure the cost of the sim, add whatever charge for profit, and then divide by the total number of square meters?

It would also eliminate the need for group purchases to save money. But maybe that's what the lindens wanted. Fewer individual purchases.

Thought this would be a good place to say hello.

I generally don't like posting too many questions on these types of forums because I don't want to bug you all too much, but I don't want you guys getting all sad because of a lack of newbs to help. I want you all to feel like you are making a difference, therefore I will try and keep you busy with all my newbish questions...lol

So far everyone on these forums have been great. Hopefully I'll soon know enough to start helping out the newer newbs... So when you see a question from me you can consider your answer to be an investment into your Scripting Tips Forum retirement fund...lol

I've found that as things have gone along:

1--many of the general questions have already been answered and can be searched on the forums.

2--many people have gotten tired of people coming to the scripting forums and saying "I don't know anything about scripting, can someone give me a free networked vendor that syncs up with the web to sell things on my web-store and does backflips?"

3--many of the newer joins in SL are around just to look around and socialize...a lot of the production-minded people were early adapters.

4--The forums generally go through natural ups and downs

5--Having BBCode disabled is annoying.

Two thots from a new and occasional scripter:

-- Don't underestimate the usefulness of the new LSL wiki. Programmers really will RTFM. Also, the hints and speed of offline tools like the LSL editor and others make it fairly fast to run thru a bunch of trial and error; don't know if that was always the case.

-- The sources of lag are well-known by a lot of people, and lag is endemic. Was it always this way? I made the coolest pet script ever (I thot) and went around for a while in a tiny avatar with a semi-matching pet, which was fun but a complete lagfest. Now I tend to dump my scripted attachments whenever I can, don't use an AO, and don't leave hugely scripted items on my land -- including my gorgeous horses who'd I'd love to leave standing around munching and twitching and neighing. It's a disincentive to script or buy cool scripted things. Believe me, my home would be completely alive if I thot the sim could take it.

PS; "Big Johnson"... has already been taken

The BBCODE for me is a big factor. As I learned I came on here a lot, but as I've moved onto larger and larger project I have no desire to strip all formatting and readability and try to collaborate on this forum. I imagine the same short life cycle happens with many people.

I still pop in to try and help with the little 5 liners, but avoid reading or posting code if I can help it. Its just too annoying, and I haven't thrown greasemonkey on all of my machines (but most people don't tag with

 here anymore anyways. 

For a while I was pasting code into other IDE's from here, then beautifying, then reading.. but to be honest, that lost its novelty :P

Same here With vB code not working and no word on when it will ever be restored I have mainly given up in the scripting forum.

If vB does not work why the heck does it try to format thing like links??? it just makes it harder to say copy and paste the link. Oddly enough QUOTES still work!?

its not any different than the old wiki, you know the one they wouldnt support, and when it was finally hosted on their site the first thing that went wrong they booted

at the time our only documentation of the scripting language, causing chaos ...

and i bet you anything the first sign of trouble this new wiki will be tossed in the garbage too

anywho

Not having bb code to format/highlight code is a major handicap to the system, many times i might have posted something ... but then thought of the mess and unreadability or the hassle of using a text file and uploading it (esp since the lindens just randomly wipe all attachments without warning)

guess my feeling is that they (the labs) continue to make it harder and harder to do anything with their system, weather its bb-code, second class citizens, or the fact they have zero issue about running 4 sims on a single core class 3 server, making scripting impossible (which is the main reason i sold my land and dropped prem membership)

and ive severly cut back on my SL activity because of it, do i care, not really if they want to make more of a clusterfk out of their system its their problem

OMG I am in shock!!!! I actually got a reply out of Gearsawe here in the forums (blows a kiss his way).

Yep I agree with much of the sentiment. I was tickled pink when I got bbcode.user.js up and running in Opera the other day. There is a GreaseMonkey analog for IExplorer but unfortunately IExplorer html code is different and not all user.js scripts work including the bbcode workaround. It is kind of hard to police the forum and tell people to use the tags when most will never see the difference. Short script fragments are no problem but a long script would be unreadable.

What the heck to do thou. This body of knowledge here in the Scripting forum is irreplaceable. No amount of examples in the wiki can come close to what you can learn from not only the script fragments here but the discourse between scripters. I posted a link to your thread "A slight rant about else if" the other day Osgeld. Now how in the heck could that be condensed and make as much sense as reading the whole thread. Linear else if tests are completely evil and waste so much of the simulator resources but it needs a long discussion for the newer people to really see the difference and impact. Posting a link back to the thread won't work because the no payment info folks still won't be able to access it.

I just finished posting a variation of a script in the forum here. The OP posted thier script, a much improved variation was posted and tehn I posted a variation of it. This is what can not be reproduced anywhere else. (BTW and Osgeld just posted a problem with it too!!!! No Pink!!!!! OMG!)

And lastly, A HUGE HELLO and HUGS to all the names I have not seen before when I was here earlier. Such a wonderful sight to see new & future torch bearers!

As a relative newbie (Oct 2006) has the thought that scripting is an intensive workload and there are other things than SL to keep people amused/active been considered. The seasonal aspect needs to be considered. I have a largish garden to keep up and that takes time so I have to restrict my coding to evenings after dark (and those days when rain interrupts gardening). So I believe that the actvity will rise again when the Autumn (Fall) and Winter return to the Northern hemisphere. I wonder if the reverse is observed in the Southern, although perhaps not since they never really get long dark nights down there. Perhaps someone in the Southern hemisphere will correct me.