Second Life Forums Archive - Researching a new Project, Please help!

Squeebee Wakawaka

Newbie Savant

Join date: 22 Feb 2006

Posts: 28

11-24-2006 10:21

Hi All;

(lots of description, if you want to just see the questions look for ***)

Ok, I've read before that some of the issues with asset server lag is that users go to freebie stores and grab box after box with 100 freebies per box then never go through them, causing tons of wasted objects.

So, I think to myself 'a good way to help the problem and learn LSL would be to build a database of freebies that you browse online and then retrieve from a kiosk. That way you only grab the freebies you want and avoid mountains of garbage'.

And now begins the research phase.

The first question I must address is this: there will be a ton of freebies out there to catalog. Putting aside the work involved in the actual cataloging, I need the ability to manage the inventory of freebies in SL so that freebies can be delivered to the users.

***Question #1) Is there a limit to the number of objects within an object? If not, will increased inventory affect performance in sending an object from the warehouse object to the terminal for delivery to the user?

I assume there is a limit so I plan on a series of warehouse objects.

***Question #2) Can anyone recommend sample code for a multi-vendor where there are multiple terminals that trigger item delivery by a third-party object? Ideally I want to ask the warehouse(s) for objects and box the objects in a folder which I then hand to the user.

***Question #3) Any initial advice? I'll be asking more questions as I go on I'm sure.

Thanks!
Squeebee Wakawaka

Winter Ventura

Eclectic Randomness

Join date: 18 Jul 2006

Posts: 2,579

11-24-2006 11:50

Many freebies are used as promotional items. The idea being "I will give you something free, but you have to come to my shop". inside the freebie box may be some demo items as well, pictures of other products sold by the maker, landmarks, etc.

By isolating the freebies away from their original packaging, you are essentially taking this advertising opoortunity away from the original creator.. and are now using his/her freebie to generate traffic for your purposes. (if only to just offer freebies).

Of course, this is already done to death.. and many originators of freebies are no longer even still with us. It's not a point I would lose any sleep over, but you should consider it carefully when starting a project like this. ANother thing to consider is that there are many "freebie stores" where you can pick up great gobs of stuff in a single pass.

As much as I applaud your intent here.. I think most people will still opt for the "great big junk boxes" stores. Since freebie shopping is more of a passtime than a shopping experience. Most people I know have lots of clutter in their inventories. I personally have about 30 objects I cherish and use semi-regularly, but the rest is "in the garage". the search bar has become my friend. But there's a lot of content that is just "in the junk drawer that I never look in"

I think an index of this sort, would have to be very well documented. And crossreferenced to death. (like that bicycle that's also an attachment, and an ao, not an actual vehicle. Or the rollerskates. Items like"Jet Pack" would all have to have pictures associated with them.. and don't get me started on "Wings". I have about 30 FOLDERS of freebie vehicles.. cars, plains, hovercraft, giant flying hot dogs, etc. At that point, we're talking about an SLExchange (or SLBoutique) just for freebies. And with literally millions of items needing to be sorted, tested, repackaged, photographed, described, and listed.... with no profit involved whatsoever...

I would suspect that "doing this right" would be far more work than it's worth.. and doing it wrong will just create another "Yadni's Junkyard" or similar big-box-o-stuff warehouse.

_____________________

● Inworld Store: http://slurl.eclectic-randomness.com
● Website: http://www.eclectic-randomness.com
● Twitter: @WinterVentura

Winter Ventura

Eclectic Randomness

Join date: 18 Jul 2006

Posts: 2,579

11-24-2006 12:06

To actually answer your questions though...

***Question #1) Is there a limit to the number of objects within an object? If not, will increased inventory affect performance in sending an object from the warehouse object to the terminal for delivery to the user?

From the LSL Wiki:

From: someone

Object inventory used to be limited to 255 items maximum, but there is currently no limit. While it's unlikely, there may be a limit imposed in the future. Object inventory cannot contain folders (other then the "Contents" folder) or items with the same name (unlike the user inventory). When a folder from a user's inventory is dropped into the inventory of an object, the folder's items are transferred individually to the object. Scripts transferred using this process are, unfortunately, deactivated (each script must be dragged seperately, or selected using shift and/or control-clicking and dragged as a mass selection), and a number is automatically appended to items without unique names.

***Question #2) Can anyone recommend sample code for a multi-vendor where there are multiple terminals that trigger item delivery by a third-party object? Ideally I want to ask the warehouse(s) for objects and box the objects in a folder which I then hand to the user.

It sounds like what you need is a JEVN-style networked vendor. These systems are very often expensive.. but at $L2000... a JEVN (or similar "no commission" system) is reasonable, and most of the bigger names in that feild have good track records of reliability and good tech support.

I dont think you can set items up so they can pull inventory out of servers owned by other people.. but at least this system would work in terms of a kiosk that people could GO-To.

***Question #3) Any initial advice? I'll be asking more questions as I go on I'm sure.

My initial advice would be.. frankly.. to do it. Ignore what I've said above. Stomp on over to JEVN, pick up a vendor package, learn how to use it.. and get started! I think that *I* would modify your initial plan.. and rather than indexing ALL freebies.. I would go out and start grabbing all the freebies I could find... then I would test them one by one, and start making a pile of the "best freebies" you have found. If a better freebie jetpack comes along.. replace the older one. Don't provide people with 10,000 pairs of wings.. provide a selection of "the 20 best free wings" or something like that.

I would also recommend avoiding things like food items. There's SOO many food items, and they are usually promotional items (like a pizza slice.. those usually come from "touching" a pizza in a box someplace.) If you DO decide to make such things available, do packs.. like "the 30 funnest food items" or "10 best smoking items"... etc.

_____________________

● Inworld Store: http://slurl.eclectic-randomness.com
● Website: http://www.eclectic-randomness.com
● Twitter: @WinterVentura

Talarus Luan

Ancient Archaean Dragon

Join date: 18 Mar 2006

Posts: 4,831

11-24-2006 12:49

Something to note:

Inventories are not necessarily copies of objects, but are most often just a list of references to existing objects. IE, if I make a box of 100 different widgets and set it out for people to buy, when they do so, open it up, and copy the contents into their inventory, they aren't making duplicates of the objects themselves. Instead they are simply adding references to the originals in the database. It isn't until they rez one of the objects in-world and take it back into their inventory that they are actually making a new copy of the object in the asset database.

Knowing this, the vast majority of people's inventories are made up of nothing but large lists of references to objects made long ago, most especially freebies. Thus, while it is a noble idea to want to reduce unnecessary database clutter, the savings you are netting aren't necessarily as large as you might think, and the inconvenience introduced by having to manage literally millions of individual objects in some kind of vending system, and asking people to navigate said system to locate what they want, is probably counter-productive.

Given the nature and limitations of SL, and vending sytems in particular, I think I would much rather have the items as they are now, where I can organize and find them myself whenever and wherever I want. Still, it would really depend on the system design itself, and I am open to having something more useful to me that would help the asset database in the long term.

Researching a new Project, Please help!
Squeebee Wakawaka Newbie Savant Join date: 22 Feb 2006 Posts: 28	11-24-2006 10:21 Hi All; (lots of description, if you want to just see the questions look for *) Ok, I've read before that some of the issues with asset server lag is that users go to freebie stores and grab box after box with 100 freebies per box then never go through them, causing tons of wasted objects. So, I think to myself 'a good way to help the problem and learn LSL would be to build a database of freebies that you browse online and then retrieve from a kiosk. That way you only grab the freebies you want and avoid mountains of garbage'. And now begins the research phase. The first question I must address is this: there will be a ton of freebies out there to catalog. Putting aside the work involved in the actual cataloging, I need the ability to manage the inventory of freebies in SL so that freebies can be delivered to the users. Question #1) Is there a limit to the number of objects within an object? If not, will increased inventory affect performance in sending an object from the warehouse object to the terminal for delivery to the user? I assume there is a limit so I plan on a series of warehouse objects. Question #2) Can anyone recommend sample code for a multi-vendor where there are multiple terminals that trigger item delivery by a third-party object? Ideally I want to ask the warehouse(s) for objects and box the objects in a folder which I then hand to the user. *Question #3) Any initial advice? I'll be asking more questions as I go on I'm sure. Thanks! Squeebee Wakawaka
Winter Ventura Eclectic Randomness Join date: 18 Jul 2006 Posts: 2,579	11-24-2006 11:50 Many freebies are used as promotional items. The idea being "I will give you something free, but you have to come to my shop". inside the freebie box may be some demo items as well, pictures of other products sold by the maker, landmarks, etc. By isolating the freebies away from their original packaging, you are essentially taking this advertising opoortunity away from the original creator.. and are now using his/her freebie to generate traffic for your purposes. (if only to just offer freebies). Of course, this is already done to death.. and many originators of freebies are no longer even still with us. It's not a point I would lose any sleep over, but you should consider it carefully when starting a project like this. ANother thing to consider is that there are many "freebie stores" where you can pick up great gobs of stuff in a single pass. As much as I applaud your intent here.. I think most people will still opt for the "great big junk boxes" stores. Since freebie shopping is more of a passtime than a shopping experience. Most people I know have lots of clutter in their inventories. I personally have about 30 objects I cherish and use semi-regularly, but the rest is "in the garage". the search bar has become my friend. But there's a lot of content that is just "in the junk drawer that I never look in" I think an index of this sort, would have to be very well documented. And crossreferenced to death. (like that bicycle that's also an attachment, and an ao, not an actual vehicle. Or the rollerskates. Items like"Jet Pack" would all have to have pictures associated with them.. and don't get me started on "Wings". I have about 30 FOLDERS of freebie vehicles.. cars, plains, hovercraft, giant flying hot dogs, etc. At that point, we're talking about an SLExchange (or SLBoutique) just for freebies. And with literally millions of items needing to be sorted, tested, repackaged, photographed, described, and listed.... with no profit involved whatsoever... I would suspect that "doing this right" would be far more work than it's worth.. and doing it wrong will just create another "Yadni's Junkyard" or similar big-box-o-stuff warehouse. _____________________ ● Inworld Store: http://slurl.eclectic-randomness.com ● Website: http://www.eclectic-randomness.com ● Twitter: @WinterVentura
Winter Ventura Eclectic Randomness Join date: 18 Jul 2006 Posts: 2,579	11-24-2006 12:06 To actually answer your questions though... *Question #1) Is there a limit to the number of objects within an object? If not, will increased inventory affect performance in sending an object from the warehouse object to the terminal for delivery to the user? From the LSL Wiki: From: someone Object inventory used to be limited to 255 items maximum, but there is currently no limit. While it's unlikely, there may be a limit imposed in the future. Object inventory cannot contain folders (other then the "Contents" folder) or items with the same name (unlike the user inventory). When a folder from a user's inventory is dropped into the inventory of an object, the folder's items are transferred individually to the object. Scripts transferred using this process are, unfortunately, deactivated (each script must be dragged seperately, or selected using shift and/or control-clicking and dragged as a mass selection), and a number is automatically appended to items without unique names. Question #2) Can anyone recommend sample code for a multi-vendor where there are multiple terminals that trigger item delivery by a third-party object? Ideally I want to ask the warehouse(s) for objects and box the objects in a folder which I then hand to the user. It sounds like what you need is a JEVN-style networked vendor. These systems are very often expensive.. but at $L2000... a JEVN (or similar "no commission" system) is reasonable, and most of the bigger names in that feild have good track records of reliability and good tech support. I dont think you can set items up so they can pull inventory out of servers owned by other people.. but at least this system would work in terms of a kiosk that people could GO-To. *Question #3) Any initial advice? I'll be asking more questions as I go on I'm sure. My initial advice would be.. frankly.. to do it. Ignore what I've said above. Stomp on over to JEVN, pick up a vendor package, learn how to use it.. and get started! I think that I* would modify your initial plan.. and rather than indexing ALL freebies.. I would go out and start grabbing all the freebies I could find... then I would test them one by one, and start making a pile of the "best freebies" you have found. If a better freebie jetpack comes along.. replace the older one. Don't provide people with 10,000 pairs of wings.. provide a selection of "the 20 best free wings" or something like that. I would also recommend avoiding things like food items. There's SOO many food items, and they are usually promotional items (like a pizza slice.. those usually come from "touching" a pizza in a box someplace.) If you DO decide to make such things available, do packs.. like "the 30 funnest food items" or "10 best smoking items"... etc. _____________________ ● Inworld Store: http://slurl.eclectic-randomness.com ● Website: http://www.eclectic-randomness.com ● Twitter: @WinterVentura
Talarus Luan Ancient Archaean Dragon Join date: 18 Mar 2006 Posts: 4,831	11-24-2006 12:49 Something to note: Inventories are not necessarily copies of objects, but are most often just a list of references to existing objects. IE, if I make a box of 100 different widgets and set it out for people to buy, when they do so, open it up, and copy the contents into their inventory, they aren't making duplicates of the objects themselves. Instead they are simply adding references to the originals in the database. It isn't until they rez one of the objects in-world and take it back into their inventory that they are actually making a new copy of the object in the asset database. Knowing this, the vast majority of people's inventories are made up of nothing but large lists of references to objects made long ago, most especially freebies. Thus, while it is a noble idea to want to reduce unnecessary database clutter, the savings you are netting aren't necessarily as large as you might think, and the inconvenience introduced by having to manage literally millions of individual objects in some kind of vending system, and asking people to navigate said system to locate what they want, is probably counter-productive. Given the nature and limitations of SL, and vending sytems in particular, I think I would much rather have the items as they are now, where I can organize and find them myself whenever and wherever I want. Still, it would really depend on the system design itself, and I am open to having something more useful to me that would help the asset database in the long term.

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