Second Life Forums Archive - Can LSL be exported to other languages?

Morte Reanimator

Registered User

Join date: 21 Sep 2009

Posts: 1

10-23-2009 13:22

I can code great in Second-life because everything just makes sense..

Is there anyway to re-translate LSL into Java? C? other code languages?

Strife Onizuka

Moonchild

Join date: 3 Mar 2004

Posts: 5,887

10-24-2009 19:56

LSL is lacking many classes of functions and functionality; not only that, LSL has functionality that is unique to SL. If you were translating LSL into a more traditional language, you would need to drop the SL functionality and pickup more mainstream functionality. In the end you wouldn't have much left.

There are better languages out there.

_____________________

Truth is a river that is always splitting up into arms that reunite. Islanded between the arms, the inhabitants argue for a lifetime as to which is the main river.
- Cyril Connolly

Without the political will to find common ground, the continual friction of tactic and counter tactic, only creates suspicion and hatred and vengeance, and perpetuates the cycle of violence.
- James Nachtwey

Kayaker Magic

low carbonated footprint

Join date: 11 Sep 2008

Posts: 109

10-27-2009 09:45

From: Morte Reanimator

I can code great in Second-life because everything just makes sense..

Sence? LSL? My brain is shorting out trying to hold those two ideas at once.. BZZZZZ!
Well, I suppose the language would be OK if it had just ONE STRUCTURED DATA TYPE! Look at little tiny languages like Lua, it has only one structured data type (a hash) but they use "syntactic sugar" to make it LOOK LIKE arrays, structures and classes.

But the thing that really makes no sense is the naming "convention" in the library. Apparently names of routines were chosen at random by different people at different times.
Examples:
why is it llStringLength instead of llGetStringLength like llGetListLength?
why is it llGetPos instead of llGetPosition like llGetRootPosition?

The constants are also full of poorly lumped together "conventions"
AGENT_SITTING is part of a logical group of constants you get from llGetAgentInfo
but AGENT and PASSIVE (with no prefix) are constants you use with llSensor

Every routine in the library has strange side effects, things it can do but shouldn't, things it cannot do but should. Some of these are documented, others are not. Every time I want to write a script, I have to start by doing a research project to find out what the library routines actually do!
An example:
llSetScale doesn't work on physical prims, documented, but why not? Oh well, I call llSetStatus before and after llSetScale to turn physics off and on and it seems to work. HOWEVER, doing this cancels my last call to llRotLookAt. OK, that almost makes sense until I find that going non-physical for a second DOES NOT cancel my last call to llMoveToTarget. I'm still researching how to successfully change size while moving and rotating at the same time...

Jesse Barnett

500,000 scoville units

Join date: 21 May 2006

Posts: 4,160

10-27-2009 13:02

From another point of view.

You've learned the basics and have your first language under your belt now. The next one, no matter which one, is still going to be easier then if you did not know the basics. The one after that one is even easier.

I went from lsl to Autoit and used it to create one program for work that I still use. That one was probably about 5,000 lines of code but they have really nice documentation and a forum to ask questions. I then jumped to C# and actually found it easier then Autoit in hindsight. BUT it might not have been as easy if I did not have the Autoit transition and easier to understand documentation and of course examples. With C# I was able to whip out a couple more programs that we all use at the office now.

The one thing that held me back from jumping into C++ instead is because UI's are a breeze in C# as compared to C++. I understand the basics and can read C++ from looking at the SL viewer code but have not proceeded to actually design anything with it yet. But I have no doubts I could if necessary.

Next on my plate was PHP as it became necessary for our work website and I just finished 3000 lines of code with it. It allows people with the password to upload or download autocad dwgs from our server, is easier for the 20+ contractors we have to use then installing ftp clients. Actually it is pretty sweet and my coworkers really like it now.

LUA would be a good one for you to jump into if you are interested in Blue Mars. Have no fear and pick a language that would work for what you need to create. At least that works for me, I was never good at learning something and then finding out what I wanted to apply it to.

People say to learn C to learn to work with the backend of your computer and so that your programs will work with multiple OSs. Unless you are pursuing a career in programming or really need that, I would say just skip it and have fun instead.

I am just one of many people here who has graduated from LSL.

_____________________

I (who is a she not a he) reserve the right to exercise selective comprehension of the OP's question at anytime.

From: someone

I am still around, just no longer here. See you across the aisle. Hope LL burns in hell for archiving this forum

Soen Eber

Registered User

Join date: 3 Aug 2006

Posts: 428

10-27-2009 20:17

Maybe 10 or 15 years ago when I got into the field C was the language to learn, but unless you want to get into embedded programming most application systems have moved on to java or C#. I agree about pursuing your interests, though.

Argent Stonecutter

Emergency Mustelid

Join date: 20 Sep 2005

Posts: 20,263

10-27-2009 20:36

From: Kayaker Magic

Look at little tiny languages like Lua

Lua? Tiny?

Lisp is a tiny language.
Forth is a tiny language.
LSL is a tiny language.

Lua is not a tiny language. Lua is arguably more complex than Smalltalk. It's up there with languages like Javascript and Icon.

Not to defend the historical dregs in LSL, mind you, but it's an order of magnitude less complex than Lua.

_____________________

Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/

"And now I'm going to show you something really cool."

Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23
Coonspiracy Store - http://xrl.us/coonstore

Strife Onizuka

Moonchild

Join date: 3 Mar 2004

Posts: 5,887

10-28-2009 20:31

If you just want to play with LSL offline, there is LSLEditor.
http://www.lsleditor.org/

Jesse is right, and I feel Kayaker's pain. LSL should have been redesigned ages ago.

When we get the Mono verifier bye bye LSL ^_^
Sure you will still be able to write code in LSL, but who will want to when you can write in C# or VB or any of the other CIL compiling languages?

_____________________

Truth is a river that is always splitting up into arms that reunite. Islanded between the arms, the inhabitants argue for a lifetime as to which is the main river.
- Cyril Connolly

Without the political will to find common ground, the continual friction of tactic and counter tactic, only creates suspicion and hatred and vengeance, and perpetuates the cycle of violence.
- James Nachtwey

Argent Stonecutter

Emergency Mustelid

Join date: 20 Sep 2005

Posts: 20,263

10-29-2009 02:54

From: Strife Onizuka

Sure you will still be able to write code in LSL, but who will want to when you can write in C# or VB or any of the other CIL compiling languages?

I've been using VB a lot over the past couple of years. And if you think VB is anywhere near as good a language as LSL I have to question your sanity.

_____________________

Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/

"And now I'm going to show you something really cool."

Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23
Coonspiracy Store - http://xrl.us/coonstore

Jesse Barnett

500,000 scoville units

Join date: 21 May 2006

Posts: 4,160

10-29-2009 04:07

From: Argent Stonecutter

I've been using VB a lot over the past couple of years. And if you think VB is anywhere near as good a language as LSL I have to question your sanity.

After resmodding here for a few years I am surprised anyone thinks Strife has any sanity left.

_____________________

I (who is a she not a he) reserve the right to exercise selective comprehension of the OP's question at anytime.

From: someone

I am still around, just no longer here. See you across the aisle. Hope LL burns in hell for archiving this forum

Jesse Barnett

500,000 scoville units

Join date: 21 May 2006

Posts: 4,160

10-29-2009 04:13

That reminds me. Strife, LL is looking for a 3rd party KB wiki editor.

https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/community/support/blog/2009/10/28/wanted-a-specialist-for-a-special-job

_____________________

I (who is a she not a he) reserve the right to exercise selective comprehension of the OP's question at anytime.

From: someone

I am still around, just no longer here. See you across the aisle. Hope LL burns in hell for archiving this forum

Indeterminate Schism

Registered User

Join date: 24 May 2008

Posts: 236

10-29-2009 06:03

Since almost all LSL functions are for manipulating prims and communicating between them, what advantages will there be to using another language, which doesn't provide that functionality?

We'll be able to use objects, arrays and other data-structures but won't have the memory to do much with them. Storage will still need to be offline, or limited, control-structures will be more or less the same. I don't get it.

Strife Onizuka

Moonchild

Join date: 3 Mar 2004

Posts: 5,887

10-29-2009 15:26

From: Jesse Barnett

After resmodding here for a few years I am surprised anyone thinks Strife has any sanity left.

LOL

From: Jesse Barnett

That reminds me. Strife, LL is looking for a 3rd party KB wiki editor.

https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/community/support/blog/2009/10/28/wanted-a-specialist-for-a-special-job

oooooo thanks for the tip

*goes and applies for teh job*

_____________________

Truth is a river that is always splitting up into arms that reunite. Islanded between the arms, the inhabitants argue for a lifetime as to which is the main river.
- Cyril Connolly

Without the political will to find common ground, the continual friction of tactic and counter tactic, only creates suspicion and hatred and vengeance, and perpetuates the cycle of violence.
- James Nachtwey

Sindy Tsure

Will script for shoes

Join date: 18 Sep 2006

Posts: 4,103

10-29-2009 15:39

From: Strife Onizuka

*goes and applies for teh job*

JIRA a "Strife should get this job" and I'll vote. I'll even make up some alts to vote, too.

_____________________

Sick of sims locking up every time somebody TPs in? Vote for SVC-3895!!!
- Go here: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3895
- If you see "if you were logged in.." on the left, click it and log in
- Click the "Vote for it" link on the left

Jesse Barnett

500,000 scoville units

Join date: 21 May 2006

Posts: 4,160

10-29-2009 17:01

From: Sindy Tsure

JIRA a "Strife should get this job" and I'll vote. I'll even make up some alts to vote, too.

Agreed!

_____________________

I (who is a she not a he) reserve the right to exercise selective comprehension of the OP's question at anytime.

From: someone

I am still around, just no longer here. See you across the aisle. Hope LL burns in hell for archiving this forum

Can LSL be exported to other languages?
Morte Reanimator Registered User Join date: 21 Sep 2009 Posts: 1	10-23-2009 13:22 I can code great in Second-life because everything just makes sense.. Is there anyway to re-translate LSL into Java? C? other code languages?
Strife Onizuka Moonchild Join date: 3 Mar 2004 Posts: 5,887	10-24-2009 19:56 LSL is lacking many classes of functions and functionality; not only that, LSL has functionality that is unique to SL. If you were translating LSL into a more traditional language, you would need to drop the SL functionality and pickup more mainstream functionality. In the end you wouldn't have much left. There are better languages out there. _____________________ Truth is a river that is always splitting up into arms that reunite. Islanded between the arms, the inhabitants argue for a lifetime as to which is the main river. - Cyril Connolly Without the political will to find common ground, the continual friction of tactic and counter tactic, only creates suspicion and hatred and vengeance, and perpetuates the cycle of violence. - James Nachtwey
Kayaker Magic low carbonated footprint Join date: 11 Sep 2008 Posts: 109	10-27-2009 09:45 From: Morte Reanimator I can code great in Second-life because everything just makes sense.. Sence? LSL? My brain is shorting out trying to hold those two ideas at once.. BZZZZZ! Well, I suppose the language would be OK if it had just ONE STRUCTURED DATA TYPE! Look at little tiny languages like Lua, it has only one structured data type (a hash) but they use "syntactic sugar" to make it LOOK LIKE arrays, structures and classes. But the thing that really makes no sense is the naming "convention" in the library. Apparently names of routines were chosen at random by different people at different times. Examples: why is it llStringLength instead of llGetStringLength like llGetListLength? why is it llGetPos instead of llGetPosition like llGetRootPosition? The constants are also full of poorly lumped together "conventions" AGENT_SITTING is part of a logical group of constants you get from llGetAgentInfo but AGENT and PASSIVE (with no prefix) are constants you use with llSensor Every routine in the library has strange side effects, things it can do but shouldn't, things it cannot do but should. Some of these are documented, others are not. Every time I want to write a script, I have to start by doing a research project to find out what the library routines actually do! An example: llSetScale doesn't work on physical prims, documented, but why not? Oh well, I call llSetStatus before and after llSetScale to turn physics off and on and it seems to work. HOWEVER, doing this cancels my last call to llRotLookAt. OK, that almost makes sense until I find that going non-physical for a second DOES NOT cancel my last call to llMoveToTarget. I'm still researching how to successfully change size while moving and rotating at the same time...
Jesse Barnett 500,000 scoville units Join date: 21 May 2006 Posts: 4,160	10-27-2009 13:02 From another point of view. You've learned the basics and have your first language under your belt now. The next one, no matter which one, is still going to be easier then if you did not know the basics. The one after that one is even easier. I went from lsl to Autoit and used it to create one program for work that I still use. That one was probably about 5,000 lines of code but they have really nice documentation and a forum to ask questions. I then jumped to C# and actually found it easier then Autoit in hindsight. BUT it might not have been as easy if I did not have the Autoit transition and easier to understand documentation and of course examples. With C# I was able to whip out a couple more programs that we all use at the office now. The one thing that held me back from jumping into C++ instead is because UI's are a breeze in C# as compared to C++. I understand the basics and can read C++ from looking at the SL viewer code but have not proceeded to actually design anything with it yet. But I have no doubts I could if necessary. Next on my plate was PHP as it became necessary for our work website and I just finished 3000 lines of code with it. It allows people with the password to upload or download autocad dwgs from our server, is easier for the 20+ contractors we have to use then installing ftp clients. Actually it is pretty sweet and my coworkers really like it now. LUA would be a good one for you to jump into if you are interested in Blue Mars. Have no fear and pick a language that would work for what you need to create. At least that works for me, I was never good at learning something and then finding out what I wanted to apply it to. People say to learn C to learn to work with the backend of your computer and so that your programs will work with multiple OSs. Unless you are pursuing a career in programming or really need that, I would say just skip it and have fun instead. I am just one of many people here who has graduated from LSL. _____________________ I (who is a she not a he) reserve the right to exercise selective comprehension of the OP's question at anytime. From: someone I am still around, just no longer here. See you across the aisle. Hope LL burns in hell for archiving this forum
Soen Eber Registered User Join date: 3 Aug 2006 Posts: 428	10-27-2009 20:17 Maybe 10 or 15 years ago when I got into the field C was the language to learn, but unless you want to get into embedded programming most application systems have moved on to java or C#. I agree about pursuing your interests, though.
Argent Stonecutter Emergency Mustelid Join date: 20 Sep 2005 Posts: 20,263	10-27-2009 20:36 From: Kayaker Magic Look at little tiny languages like Lua Lua? Tiny? Lisp is a tiny language. Forth is a tiny language. LSL is a tiny language. Lua is not a tiny language. Lua is arguably more complex than Smalltalk. It's up there with languages like Javascript and Icon. Not to defend the historical dregs in LSL, mind you, but it's an order of magnitude less complex than Lua. _____________________ Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/ "And now I'm going to show you something really cool." Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23 Coonspiracy Store - http://xrl.us/coonstore
Strife Onizuka Moonchild Join date: 3 Mar 2004 Posts: 5,887	10-28-2009 20:31 If you just want to play with LSL offline, there is LSLEditor. http://www.lsleditor.org/ Jesse is right, and I feel Kayaker's pain. LSL should have been redesigned ages ago. When we get the Mono verifier bye bye LSL ^_^ Sure you will still be able to write code in LSL, but who will want to when you can write in C# or VB or any of the other CIL compiling languages? _____________________ Truth is a river that is always splitting up into arms that reunite. Islanded between the arms, the inhabitants argue for a lifetime as to which is the main river. - Cyril Connolly Without the political will to find common ground, the continual friction of tactic and counter tactic, only creates suspicion and hatred and vengeance, and perpetuates the cycle of violence. - James Nachtwey
Argent Stonecutter Emergency Mustelid Join date: 20 Sep 2005 Posts: 20,263	10-29-2009 02:54 From: Strife Onizuka Sure you will still be able to write code in LSL, but who will want to when you can write in C# or VB or any of the other CIL compiling languages? I've been using VB a lot over the past couple of years. And if you think VB is anywhere near as good a language as LSL I have to question your sanity. _____________________ Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/ "And now I'm going to show you something really cool." Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23 Coonspiracy Store - http://xrl.us/coonstore
Jesse Barnett 500,000 scoville units Join date: 21 May 2006 Posts: 4,160	10-29-2009 04:07 From: Argent Stonecutter I've been using VB a lot over the past couple of years. And if you think VB is anywhere near as good a language as LSL I have to question your sanity. After resmodding here for a few years I am surprised anyone thinks Strife has any sanity left. _____________________ I (who is a she not a he) reserve the right to exercise selective comprehension of the OP's question at anytime. From: someone I am still around, just no longer here. See you across the aisle. Hope LL burns in hell for archiving this forum
Jesse Barnett 500,000 scoville units Join date: 21 May 2006 Posts: 4,160	10-29-2009 04:13 That reminds me. Strife, LL is looking for a 3rd party KB wiki editor. https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/community/support/blog/2009/10/28/wanted-a-specialist-for-a-special-job _____________________ I (who is a she not a he) reserve the right to exercise selective comprehension of the OP's question at anytime. From: someone I am still around, just no longer here. See you across the aisle. Hope LL burns in hell for archiving this forum
Indeterminate Schism Registered User Join date: 24 May 2008 Posts: 236	10-29-2009 06:03 Since almost all LSL functions are for manipulating prims and communicating between them, what advantages will there be to using another language, which doesn't provide that functionality? We'll be able to use objects, arrays and other data-structures but won't have the memory to do much with them. Storage will still need to be offline, or limited, control-structures will be more or less the same. I don't get it.
Strife Onizuka Moonchild Join date: 3 Mar 2004 Posts: 5,887	10-29-2009 15:26 From: Jesse Barnett After resmodding here for a few years I am surprised anyone thinks Strife has any sanity left. LOL From: Jesse Barnett That reminds me. Strife, LL is looking for a 3rd party KB wiki editor. https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/community/support/blog/2009/10/28/wanted-a-specialist-for-a-special-job oooooo thanks for the tip goes and applies for teh job _____________________ Truth is a river that is always splitting up into arms that reunite. Islanded between the arms, the inhabitants argue for a lifetime as to which is the main river. - Cyril Connolly Without the political will to find common ground, the continual friction of tactic and counter tactic, only creates suspicion and hatred and vengeance, and perpetuates the cycle of violence. - James Nachtwey
Sindy Tsure Will script for shoes Join date: 18 Sep 2006 Posts: 4,103	10-29-2009 15:39 From: Strife Onizuka goes and applies for teh job JIRA a "Strife should get this job" and I'll vote. I'll even make up some alts to vote, too. _____________________ Sick of sims locking up every time somebody TPs in? Vote for SVC-3895!!! - Go here: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3895 - If you see "if you were logged in.." on the left, click it and log in - Click the "Vote for it" link on the left
Jesse Barnett 500,000 scoville units Join date: 21 May 2006 Posts: 4,160	10-29-2009 17:01 From: Sindy Tsure JIRA a "Strife should get this job" and I'll vote. I'll even make up some alts to vote, too. Agreed! _____________________ I (who is a she not a he) reserve the right to exercise selective comprehension of the OP's question at anytime. From: someone I am still around, just no longer here. See you across the aisle. Hope LL burns in hell for archiving this forum

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Can LSL be exported to other languages?