I know they're laggy but how do they work? since sensor only has a limited range?
Is there anyway to extend a sensor range?
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Sim Wide Radar? |
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Nyx Alsop
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12-18-2009 06:02
I know they're laggy but how do they work? since sensor only has a limited range?
Is there anyway to extend a sensor range? |
Pete Olihenge
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12-18-2009 06:19
You rez probes around the sim to take sensor readings and report them back to a parent object. I've no idea what the most efficient method for doing this is, though; a small number of probes whizzing around all over the place, or a larger number of more static probes.
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Nyx Alsop
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12-18-2009 06:35
How do they get round the 10m object rez limit?
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Pete Olihenge
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12-18-2009 06:40
Look in the library for WarpPos (). This function moves an object around using llSetPrimitiveParams, and making a long list of sub-10m movements that're executed all in one go.
ETA: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/WarpPos |
Rolig Loon
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12-18-2009 08:10
Any radar is laggy if you have it set to look around too frequently. To cover a full sim, you'd need about 9 static sensors, so that adds further to the lag. The easiest solution, of course, is to simply use a tool like Mystitool or a viewer like Emerald that has a long-range radar built in. I have no idea how much lag those contribute to a sim, but they are much easier to deal with than setting up your own system.
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Innula Zenovka
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12-18-2009 10:42
You'd need more than 9 to cover a sim, wouldn't you? Remember you can build up to 4092 meters above the sim, which gives you (I think) 277,601,280 cubic metres of buildable area you might want to cover even if you're not so security-conscious as to want to scan up to MAX_INTEGER.
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Rolig Loon
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12-18-2009 11:13
You'd need more than 9 to cover a sim, wouldn't you? Remember you can build up to 4092 meters above the sim, which gives you (I think) 277,601,280 cubic metres of buildable area you might want to cover even if you're not so security-conscious as to want to scan up to MAX_INTEGER. Ah...true.... I was only thinking of a radar to watch the near ground level traffic. If you want to watch to high elevations, you'll need a pile more sensors --- and you''ll generate a lot more lag. All the more reason to use Mystitool, the Emerald viewer, or some similar system that ha long-range radar built in. _____________________
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Meade Paravane
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12-18-2009 11:14
...All the more reason to use Mystitool... Isn't this also a scripted object? _____________________
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Rolig Loon
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12-18-2009 12:14
It is, and its radar sensitivity is nowhere near as great as the Emerald viewer's. That's probably one reason for its fairly low lag. The one that puzzles me is Emerald's long-range radar. I don't understand how it manages to scan for avatars well beyond sim boundaries and at great heights ---- all without apparently generating lag. That's one of SL's many mysteries.
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Meade Paravane
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12-18-2009 12:18
It is, and its radar sensitivity is nowhere near as great as the Emerald viewer's. That's probably one reason for its fairly low lag. The one that puzzles me is Emerald's long-range radar. I don't understand how it manages to scan for avatars well beyond sim boundaries and at great heights ---- all without apparently generating lag. That's one of SL's many mysteries. It's probably using the same data that the minimap uses. Emerald (and maybe SnowGlobe and others) will tell you who one of the minimap dots are if you hover over it. The lack of added lag is just because it's all happening inside the viewer instead of happening inside a script. _____________________
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Void Singer
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12-18-2009 13:37
emerald is just reading the data that's already being sent, although it's bound to create a little lag since it spams this list back to the sim in chat.
and you need closer to 16 for 100% coverage of ~67m of sim height, but you might pare it down with proper tessellation (remember you are scanning spheres, not cubes, sqrt( 96^2 / 2) ) gives you 100% coverage cube side length of ~67.88m) _____________________
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Indeterminate Schism
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12-18-2009 15:29
Hehe, nice, but no prize. 4 sensors per height layer, as follows:
a. Sensor max radius is 96m b. So the diameter is 192m. Not enough to cross a sim but plenty for a quarter-sim (half width, half-height). Each sensor therefore covers a 128m cube, with overlap. c. 4 static quarter-sim sensors are optimally positioned at 64,64,64 192,64,64 64,192,64 and 192,192,64. d. For extra height add another layer of sensors where z += 128 OR - just rez one sensor and get it to move to each position, scan and report, then move to the next. OR - use client-side like Emerald because, as Meade and Void said, the viewer is sent all the data anyway for the mini-map and rendering, hover-tips, etc. The problem for any scripted sim-scanner is what to do if the sensor reports 16 avs (or whatever you're sensing) in any particular cube. Does it MEAN 16 or is it just maxed-out. Either you ignore any overflow or you have to scan several times within the cube with a smaller radius. Imagine, for instance, a class or a club - the students/dancers are all likely to be in a very small area |
Void Singer
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12-18-2009 17:16
heh whoops, I took radius not diameter... so 135.76m on a side. yeah 4 is plenty, and coverage height is actually a little wider, from the extra overlap.
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Johan Laurasia
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12-18-2009 23:40
And 16 is the sensor max, it will only return the first 16 detections, the others are simply ignored. And you're right, you'd have to have sphere sizes that are likely to cover areas that have at most 16 avies within it's 'sphere' of detection.
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Void Singer
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12-19-2009 00:20
And 16 is the sensor max, it will only return the first 16 detections, the others are simply ignored. And you're right, you'd have to have sphere sizes that are likely to cover areas that have at most 16 avies within it's 'sphere' of detection. there's ways around that too... you can use multiple sensors in the same object with different arcs (or just one that rotates through them)... I've got rotation/arc maps for tetra/hexa/octo/dodeca/icosa - hedrons, that increase the amount detected per sphere, by reducing the amount of likely detection per cone, although it means more duplication space. _____________________
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Indeterminate Schism
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12-19-2009 07:58
That's a good point. I was talking a bit too much about 'how I do it' rather than 'how TO do it'
![]() In my version I map each 256m 'layer' as a cube of 2x2x2 128m cubes, each scanned from a central position and waste some vertical separation to keep z consistent with x and y. When a scan reports 16 avs I recursively halve the scan-range and perform 8 new scans within the busy cube. Effectively the code all remains the same with the radiii and position-offsets halved each time. Then again I code for simplicity of maintenance and not necessarily optimal performance. Oh - and another difficulty you may have, whichever way you go about it - what do you do when a parcel won't let your sensor object in? There may be a parcel that doesn't allow your objects just where you want to place a single sensor to cover the 'valid' parcel(s) next to it. This happens quite a lot with 'L' shaped, 'U' shaped and irregular parcels. |
Void Singer
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12-19-2009 13:27
there's a way around that too, unless you're banned. but it's beside the point... Emerald type radar = way more efficient than anything we can build.
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Dr Debruyere
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Sim Scanning Helpful regardless of Emerald
12-30-2009 18:39
Sim-wide scanning is still helpful even if you use Emerald. Emerald can't "do" anything with the scanned data. If you want to have scripts report to you on the activity of avatars in your sim, protect certain areas, collect visitor data, or any other special function you still need to be able to detect them and get their keys.
That having been said, there may not be a "best" way to do this, since there are so many. I like the idea of forcing TPs to a landing point and placing a single sensor there. Once their keys are known you could track them throughout the sim without a sensor. Otherwise, I think its a tossup between multiple sensors and mobile sensors, depending on your needs. |
Void Singer
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12-31-2009 04:15
Sim-wide scanning is still helpful even if you use Emerald. Emerald can't "do" anything with the scanned data. If you want to have scripts report to you on the activity of avatars in your sim, protect certain areas, collect visitor data, or any other special function you still need to be able to detect them and get their keys. but as long as an emerald view is present with that feature turned on, all that data is being repeated on an off channel that scripts can listen to, and process from there.... the only drawback being that the emerald client needs to be on the sim. _____________________
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