Carrying Another on Shoulders Animation?

I hope this is the proper forum for this

I stumbled by an animation that allowed 1 person to 'carry' another on his/her shoulders. But now I can't recall where I saw it and can't find it *anywhere*.
I believe the poster for it featured 2 (Japanese) females.

I've hit all the big Anim Houses, but no luck.

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Kevn

Abranimations and friends, has one where you can carry a person on your shoulders. Hope I helped.

Sierra

Abranimations has this. I'm planning to start creating tandem movement animations like this, although I won't get to this one specifically for a while.

I recently bought one at Abranimations.

They have piggy back, over the shoulders (like a sack), and dragging around by the hair! (and some others not as memorable

Why copy whats already been made, why dont you come up with some new ones instead of makign what we already have? I have this one made by abraminations made long ago and its great.

Well, I'm making tandem walking animations because a lot of my customers have been asking for them. Why make jeans when so many other people are already making jeans? Because every designers' are different. Similarly, people find my holding hands animation different. Perhaps "different" means "better," that's up to the customer to decide. There's a demo of the animation in my store.

just that the way you said it sounded like you were going thru the other guys list of items they makes and copying them one by one. my bf makes animations too but he doesnt just copy someone elses ideas or make a list of animations to make that other people make. he comes up with his own original work and ideas. why make a piggy back that sensual makes and just copy her idea, or abraminations makes carrying someone instead of coming up with an original idea? oh, guess i answered my own question.

Sorry it came across that way, because I understand your point, but no I'm not simply copying others. As I said, I made a holding hands animation because a lot of my customers requested it. I do go out of my way to be professional and courteous with other animators, but ultimately (and unsurprisingly) I care more about my customers than about my competitors. Besides, even if I were making a checklist of their work and reproducing it, it's not like they invented the concept of a piggyback ride. It's kind of an obvious idea really, once you are thinking in terms of two-person interactions.

ViVe, just because we already have a piggyback animation doesn't preclude anyone else from doing *their* version of it. No one can hold domain over a basic idea but they can do so over an idea's *execution.*

If I were a customer looking for a piggyback animation, I would like to see more than one animator's interpretation of a piggyback so I can pick the one that I think is best. The wider the selection, the better.

This thread has been brought to my attention as it concerns me somewhat.

Johen, just to remind you. I have already had to ask you to remove my business brand name from your advertising which you were using as a compatibility selling point for your interactions. This does not show any form of professionalism or courtesy. In fact claiming your product to be an expansion pack for a product of another designer without consulting is extremely rude and inconsiderate as far as I’m concerned. It also makes me wonder in light of this, and your new hold hands if you are in fact singularly targeting me, and do plan to systematically copy, and wish to confuse my customers.

With regard to the tandem walks, well, SL is growing, more people are going to come along and make things. Ive already had occurances of products overlapping with other peoples, and in general it seems, that yes people are going to come up with the same things from time to time. I have not as of yet encountered anyone as brazen about copying as you seem to be though.



The word specifically stands out to me in that sentence, so you are planning to go through all the others first?


Judging from your posts here, and my previous encounter with you it seems you are quite happy to copy directly, and even claim business associations if you think it will benefit you. Johan, you may think ideas are obvious but actually any SL designer will tell you, coming up with ideas is something that evolves and takes time, and the methods by which things are executed may look simple and obvious in hindsight, but they often are not. It seems to me you are taking for granted a lot of other peoples work prior to yours.

Finally, Johan, Making comparisons of products which take lots of research and development to a pair of jeans is just absurd. My tandem walks and avatar saddles, are much more than just animations, the concepts, method and process involved to make tandem animation work in SL have taken considerable development over the past two years. The lack of acknowledgement for other peoples work you show is extremely disrespectful since a tandem animation is more than merely an animation process.

That's true. And I immediately removed all references to you from my advertising materials as soon as you asked me to. I apoligized for that error and I thank you for dealing with the situation in a calm and rational manner. These days, my only references to your store are just like I did here in my first post, to refer people to you for animations that I do not stock.

That's true. And I immediately removed all references to you from my advertising materials as soon as you asked me to. I apoligized for that error and I thank you for dealing with the situation in a calm and rational manner. These days, my only references to your store are just like I did here in my first post, to refer people to you for animations that I do not stock.


"Copying" is always a relative term. Do you consider your dance animations to be copies of the myriad other dance animations that exist? Or perhaps do you consider all the other dance animations in existence to be copies of yours?


As I explained to Vive, that was an unfortunate choice of words on my part and I apologized. By "specifically," I meant that I do not have any immediate plans to make a piggyback animation. I have begun making tandem movement animations of a similar nature (for example, holding hands) but that specific movement is not in my plans. As for why I made holding hands, I can only repeat the explanation I already gave: it was repeatedly requested by customers.

You seem to confuse an animation itself with the process by which tandem animation actually works in SL. Months of work went into the design of the tandem process; it was not one that was magically gifted by LL or by any other member. Abramelin worked hard to accomplish the tandem process which you now employ for profit, he did not "copy," and you are benefitting from his work and design. Be careful with the innuendo about copying.

Motion and animation are entirely different from the design processes involved in making tandem motion possible in SL. If any members wish to create motions or dances that is fine. Admittedly many dance animators in SL are clearly tapping the same stock animation sources, and in some cases are buying mocap from data cleanup studios such as Abramelin's real world motion capture studio. But even the dances derived from open source libraries require extensive cleaning and adaptation for use in SL and serve a good purpose in SL since they provide more economical dance animations for SL members.

Abramelin's original mocap includes many dances used in SL and is original content made by his own real world motion capture and data cleaning studio, Abramelin Studios Ltd. His original motion capture animations and dances are precisely that: his original creations, just as the tandem design and saddle processes he developed in SL over a period of many months are his original work. SL is just part of Abramelin's professional involvement with motion capture and animation and all of his content is legally protected. If his original motion capture animation and dances are found copied anywhere in SL without permission, a DCMA will be filed promptly. Aside from the legal issues concerning copying, idea theft and failure to credit the work of others is unethical.

Actually no, I am not confused about that difference. However, your invoking DMCA indicates to me that you may be confused about the nature of the dispute here. I have not copied the actual scripts used to control the animations; I wrote my scripts from scratch, a fact testified to by both the functional differences between my tandem walk and his (eg. his appears to be based on hovering, mine is not,) and by my scramble to fix a bug reported by my first customers.

If you are not confused about the nature of the alleged theft, then I must ask why you see a difference between the work that goes into writing a tandem walk script and the work that goes into producing an animation. By your own admission, it is fine for someone to create an animation that looks similar as long as the person recreated it from scratch, doing all the work. Well then, it is fine for someone to create a tandem walk that looks similar as long as the person recreates it from scratch, doing all the work.

Furthermore, his reminding me of our previous contact brings up an instructive example. Again, I apologize for that earlier misunderstanding, but note that I did not target his product for any malicious copying purpose. In fact, the reason I mentioned the Couples Animator was because there was no overlap between his animations and mine. The animations that I had briefly advertised as expansions to his product are: handshake, highfive, handkiss, tickle. Refer here to the list of built-in animations for his product
http://www.slexchange.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&file=item&ItemID=59673

While there is no overlap between the attachments I made and his product, there is considerable overlap between the Couples Animator and Duo Power from Beau Perkins. I do not see any ethical dilemma here, but by your own reasoning either Abramelin or Beau is stealing from the other. Do you believe that to be the case?

In fact, the entire notion of an attachment allowing two people to hug via chat commands was pioneered by Francis Chung (I believe, certainly not either Abramelin or Beau.) Again, by your reasoning they are both stealing from Francis. I'm sorry, I do not buy this reasoning. Refer to this old blog post of Hamlet's:
http://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2004/08/permission_to_h.html


ADDITION: Abramelin contacted me via PM and we seem to have resolved our differences. I think I speak for both of us when I ask that noone else respond to this thread, so that it won't be bumped to the top of the forum and will fade into obscurity.

Abramelin, with all due respect. If someone is selling Animations saying it is compatible with you Couples Animator, or my Duo Power. That is not un-ethical at all.

If he used the words "ad-on", thats a different story. Saying "Compatible" is totaly ethical and done all the time in RL with many products. Only thing that would pss me off is if he was using my logo.

I no longer have that ad copy, but I'm pretty sure I did use the term "add-on." I didn't use his logo, but I did make a mistake in moving forward before waiting for his response, so that's why I removed references to him as soon as he asked me to.

Competition makes everyone strive to create better products (or atleast it should), and that is good for everyone. I use to be one of the very few sculpters in SL, but now look how much the population has grown! Sculpters are a dime a dozen, and my sales records have reflected that. I have to work harder to get noticed, and still don't come close to the way it use to be. It makes me spend more time on my projects and pay closer attention to detail. It also makes me scratch my head longer and take into consideration what people would want more than I use to.

When it comes to dance animations, I personally think some good quality competition is in order. I want to know what section of what store stocks dances that don't make an avatar stand leaning at 15-25 degree angles, break their wrists, dance 0.5m off the ground, and tickle their spleens during the dance animation... I don't feel I'm in much of a position to preach, from a creator's standpoint, as I've only made a total of 2 dance animations, one of which was for a tiny AV. However, I know I spent about 30 minutes editing an entire dance which I thought was finished, just to angle the feet up 20 degrees so the feet were parallel to the ground, and sadly I rarely see a dance animation ingame which has had that much attention paid to details. I speak from the standpoint of a customer (who knows it is indeed possible to do better quality work).. I don't understand how an animator can put so much work into making such long, complex animations, and then skimp on the details. I am thinking it is due to being in a hurry to finish, being tired of the project, and being in a hurry to release it. I struggle with that myself. That's when it's time to do a save and come back to it tomorrow.

Example below -- Appears to be several broken right hips waiting to happen. Or is this one of the Missy Elliot moves?

He used language that suggested a collaboration, as if he was Abramelin's business associate, which was not true. In addition, his references were inserted solely to have his own business appear in a search for "Abranimations," making it appear that Abramelin's items were for sale at his own store. This was a blatant attempt to lure people to his store to shop for animations, instead of having them go to Abranimations.

It was a deceptive and unethical attempt to bootstrap his business onto one more established and successful.

Ethics is a word that shoud`nt really be used alot in second life, before i started animating around 70% of the animation stores i visited all have downloaded animations such as swimming, fighting, model poses, and dances in animation vendors. So its a fact that ethics is not the issue here.

Ive seen many times someone comes up with a great idea, then a few weeks later someone else is doing the same thing, or created a better idea based on the other persons original idea, but hey thats life. no point bitching about it. He may have worded his advertisment wrong and has now removed it as asked, so why is this debate still continuing ?

For most of you people, if you spent less time watching your competators and spent more time creating there would n`t be these issues and i wouldnt myself be to scared to post !

Come check out my place all my work is my own, no motion capture nothing.

I just want to say something..
MSo and I were the first to release "tandem rides" into SL, and we are working on a new version that... well that will just rock, you will have to wait and see!
I am not going to get upset about all the claims in this thread cus my hunny will get upset lol...
But... we were first and if anyone would like to dispute that, please do your history first.

OK thanks! Have a wonderful day

Oh and, we welcome competition, so no hard feelings

A simple question turned into a bit of a bun fight!

It raises the question of how does no find a specific animation other than going from shop to shop - is there a wish list register or something.