best bvh framerate for lossless upload ???

Hi people

I would like to know if there is an established framerate that will upload the most detailed animations please. Would this be one that is most like SL's own average framerate?
And also of course any other tips concerning lossless uploading for bvh avatar animations.

Thank you all!

Sca

There are no real guidelines for 'best' FPS, unfortunately. The problem is that SL 'optimizes' away small changes in order to reduce the amount of data sent over the network, so fine details tend to be lost at all framerates.

Some references:

/52/24/241028/1.html

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Internal_Animation_Format

/327/09/253994/1.html

/52/3b/246598/1.html


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well guess it depends on what you are trying to do. I use between 1 and 5 fps. Just depends. SL interpoates the frames inbetween. Plus SL down loads them quicker. And at such a low frame rate there is less of a chance it removes frames during upload. If you upload a 30fps aniamtion and a person is system is only run at 10fps 2 out of every 3 frames is being dropped for them.

Wow, I never even considered that a possibility... I don't think such a low FPS would even be a possible option for the kinds of animations I do

When discussing 'the most detailed animations' though, I don't think FPS is really that much of a factor compared to the averaging that SL does to minimize file size. For that matter, just the inherent difficulties of arbitrary avatar proportions can make highly detailed animations an exercise in frustration, and animations that are supposed to simulate interaction with other avatars can really be a pain in the rear.

Yes Robbie a total pain in the rear!

Basically trying to figure out what gets dropped during optimisation and how to avoid that.
For example, i have moved the chest 2 degrees (back and forth) to indicate breathing - is 2 enough??? i can see it is enough to indicate breathing, and from 3 on it becomes heavy breathing... soo...????

From the links you gave I found this:

SL's BVH importer does optimization of animation data prior to upload into SL. Joint rotations with very slight changes from keyframe to keyframe will be interpreted as *not* changing and thus aren't stored...
Joints with very subtle movement might have their animation data dropped entirely on upload. The threshold formula is complex, and involves comparing all three axes of data per joint, the distance moved between keyframes, as well as the joint's position in the skeletal hierachy.

and then this:
1 degree of movement in 12 frames per each axis of movement, of each limb, @30fps is the threshold before frames get culled.

Looks like someone has discovered a way here, but what about say 3 degrees on one axis and none on the other two..

can anyone give a little more info discovered from experience here?

Going with very low frame rate would not work for me Gearsawe. I am a control freak and the less SL intepolates for me the happier i will be ;P

Well jokes aside, i am working on animation with loads of intricate details - very emotive - for machinima. So i kinda need to go for a higher frame rate to have space to play with and shift stuff on the timeline. In one of the links that Robby sent I saw that a Linden suggested 15fps since that is the average framerate for viewers. I guess I'll go with that for now tillI hear anything that makes more sence for what i am trying to do.

Thank you both for your ideas

Sca

I have seen mention of 15 fps as a good average and 12 fps as the absolute minimum framerate for smooth animations in SL. Both are explained in a quote from Xenon Linden in one of the threads linked by RobbyRacoon above. I would imagine that you should not exceed 15 fps if you wish to make concise files that suffer no visible loss of quality and that you shouldn't go lower than 12 fps. Viewers running at higher framerates will smooth the animation by tweening or interpolation.

As I understand the matter, animations using more frames than this will show no noticeable improvement in quality but simply take longer to download and play, which is undesireable.

A similar mistake is often made with clothing and skin textures, which designers sometimes upload at the maximum 1024 x 1024 pixel size for extra detail and crispness. Since clothing and skin textures are limited to a maximum of 512 x 512, the files are reduced when the skin or clothing is baked onto the avatar. The finished product contains no extra detail as the designer had intended but it simply takes longer for the texture to bake since it needs to be optimised to 512 x 512 pixels.