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Theft Notice Animations Hack System

mikeD Streeter
RPG EMPIRE SIMS
Join date: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 162
07-20-2008 22:54
ATTENTION ALL ANIMATORS, GO TO http://slurl.com/secondlife/Ardingly/157/98/68 SEE ON EAST WALL THIS PERSON IS SELLING A SYSTEM THAT HACKS ANIMATIONS THAT ARE NO COPY AND MAKES THEM COPY! AS WELL THIS PERSON IS SELLING EVERYONE ELSES ANIAMTIONS FULL PERM.

I HAVE A/R'D AND I HAVE CONTACTED LIVE HELP AND IN MORNING ILL SEND DMCA FOR MY ANIMATIONS BUT WE ALL MUST ACT TO GET THIS HOLE FILLED IN ANIMATION PERMISSIONS!

HOPEFULLY BY THE TIEM YOU GET THERE SL HAS REMOVED BUT GO SEE AND HELP TAKE ACTION IF NOT
Viktoria Dovgal
Join date: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 3,593
07-20-2008 23:14
Do you mean that "animations server" thing? Isn't that just a chimera?
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Almia Thaler
IMA Shyguy!! 0o0
Join date: 3 Jun 2008
Posts: 173
07-21-2008 02:02
From: mikeD Streeter
ATTENTION ALL ANIMATORS, GO TO http://slurl.com/secondlife/Ardingly/157/98/68 SEE ON EAST WALL THIS PERSON IS SELLING A SYSTEM THAT HACKS ANIMATIONS THAT ARE NO COPY AND MAKES THEM COPY! AS WELL THIS PERSON IS SELLING EVERYONE ELSES ANIAMTIONS FULL PERM.

I HAVE A/R'D AND I HAVE CONTACTED LIVE HELP AND IN MORNING ILL SEND DMCA FOR MY ANIMATIONS BUT WE ALL MUST ACT TO GET THIS HOLE FILLED IN ANIMATION PERMISSIONS!

HOPEFULLY BY THE TIEM YOU GET THERE SL HAS REMOVED BUT GO SEE AND HELP TAKE ACTION IF NOT


i know an issue like this is as bad as copybot but right now there are hundreds of scripts being sold that can clone anything that you put it in.

sorry to say but your problem might get put on the back end of aa shelf untill this script is destoryed.

good luck tho.
I myself have had to deal with a hacker on one of my alts.
used it for copy botting and sent me the items.
=( so once i figured it out i had the alt terminated to stop them.
no clue how they got the password but it was like 20 characters long.
lol
Viktoria Dovgal
Join date: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 3,593
07-21-2008 02:33
This really looks like the same leaked animations that have been circulating all around the grid in that shop.

The "exploit" advertised in those "servers" is normal animation behavior, a single animation can be run on multiple avatars and in arbitrary locations in the sim, that's how dance machines work too.
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Deira Llanfair
Deira to rhyme with Myra
Join date: 16 Oct 2006
Posts: 2,315
07-21-2008 03:04
I think you need to be rather more specific - I just checked the place out and couldn't see anything amiss.
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Deira :)
Must create animations for head-desk and palm-face!.
Viktoria Dovgal
Join date: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 3,593
07-21-2008 03:23
Some of the pose balls in that shop are loaded with animations that probably shouldn't be there, e.g. some Lostdog and Bits & Bobs stuff and are supposed to be restricted to furniture builds. Yeah, that will need to be mopped up, but I didn't see any new capslock-worthy crisis there either.
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Deira Llanfair
Deira to rhyme with Myra
Join date: 16 Oct 2006
Posts: 2,315
07-21-2008 05:04
If there was anything wrong there, then LL may have already taken action - so no panic.

If everyone would like to come and check out my shop -please stay as long as you like and try out all the pose balls. It would do my traffic a lot of good. :D
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Deira :)
Must create animations for head-desk and palm-face!.
Animator Ragu
Registered User
Join date: 10 Jul 2008
Posts: 33
07-21-2008 06:22
Yes I think SL removed the animation Copy server that shop used to sell to people, it allowed peple to copy any no-copy animation and run them on a server. Pretty much entire shop will most likely get closed all theanimations being resold full perm are Animate Me, Bits & Bobs and Lost Dog
Darien Caldwell
Registered User
Join date: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 3,127
07-21-2008 12:15
Oh, so what did the script send a message to the server and ask it to animate Avatar X? It would only work within the sim, and geez, it would be flaky and a headache. Copyable animations don't cost THAT much. Just be legit, buy your anims. :P
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Chavo Raven
Registered User
Join date: 19 Dec 2004
Posts: 32
07-22-2008 05:52
I noticed some of my animations in there as well and they are ones that I don't allow out as copy + trans.
Viktoria Dovgal
Join date: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 3,593
07-22-2008 06:04
Earlier this year there was a problem noticed by several merchants, where in-world object permissions were getting corrupted. Anything you have out for sale you'll want to re-examine, even if it checked out OK when you first put the package together.
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Chavo Raven
Registered User
Join date: 19 Dec 2004
Posts: 32
07-22-2008 06:26
Yeah, that has been a recurring problem with SL since 2004 (that I know of), however I check for that regularly and just checked again when I noticed those animations being sold... Not sure how they managed to get them will full perms, but they seem to have done so. I think it's time to file and close these people down.
Viktoria Dovgal
Join date: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 3,593
07-22-2008 07:03
This year's round of that was relatively big, and didn't only affect unsold copies of things by any means. Again, the thing being sold in that shop wasn't some new exploit.

Animations really are quite vulnerable to copying as much as anything else, and really I'm kind of surprised that the actual hole is so rarely used. You'll know when those catch on because they won't have your name on them :/
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Chavo Raven
Registered User
Join date: 19 Dec 2004
Posts: 32
07-22-2008 15:32
yeah, it's doable via the OSS code and I'm not sure how this fana person got theirs, but looking just at their UnRealLife Motion bed system, they have animations in it from the below list:
Chavo Raven
Parsalin Gullwing
Kornscope Komachi
Ben Stravinsky
mikeD Streeter
nathou Lukas
Craig Altman
Mistress Midnight
Yoshimi Muromachi
linkin Slate
Johan Durant

and I know I didn't give permission or copyable versions out and I doubt most of the rest did either.

We'll see how many months it takes LL to get around to doing something about this.

On a side note, what's really sad is that most of these issues could be resolved with very small code changes or additions to the system, but LL doesn't do them... several of us told them how to stop copybot within a day or two, but they didn't both doing it... you would think they would be more responsive because if they piss off enough of us content creators and we leave, what will be left?
Amity Slade
Registered User
Join date: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 2,183
07-22-2008 15:47
From: Chavo Raven


On a side note, what's really sad is that most of these issues could be resolved with very small code changes or additions to the system, but LL doesn't do them... several of us told them how to stop copybot within a day or two, but they didn't both doing it... you would think they would be more responsive because if they piss off enough of us content creators and we leave, what will be left?


I'm not knowledgeable enough about the technology to know how easy or difficult it is to stop copybot.

I do have a guess about Linden Lab's motivations to act on it.

First, I've been here for 18 months, I've seen 18 months of Linden Lab's non-responsiveness to protecting IP rights of content creators, and yet that has not resulted in an exodus of content creators. The content creators of SL have a demonstrated high tolerance of abuse.

Second, Linden Lab does not see the financial future of Second Life in small businesses by content creators directed at the casual, recreational resident. The future is in corporate/academic sponsorships. To that end, freely available content for immediate use by corporate/academic sponsors only helps Linden Lab.

This quite honestly fits in with the Second Life vision that Mitch Kapor outlined in his SLB5 speech. The pioneers (content creators) have cheaply built Second Life, paving the way for the mainstream (corporate/academic sponsors) to profit from the cheap labor. Even if a lot of content creators drop out now, they leave a vast library of content within Second Life.

This, by the way, is why, after spending over a year of developing animation skills for Second Life, I've decided to stop, rather than continue to devote time into animation and turn it into a business. It looks like more headache than it's worth, and I have zero confidence in Linden Lab to uphold its promise of protecting my IP rights in what I create.
Tali Rosca
Plywood Whisperer
Join date: 6 Feb 2007
Posts: 767
07-23-2008 04:50
From: Chavo Raven

On a side note, what's really sad is that most of these issues could be resolved with very small code changes or additions to the system, but LL doesn't do them... several of us told them how to stop copybot within a day or two, but they didn't both doing it...

If you have found a way to prevent somebody from reading the data sent to the client I am wondering 1) how the client is then supposed to actually show it, and 2) why you haven't sold this fantastical technology to every record company who has been battling with various DRM systems.
If the client can read it, the data is there, and you *cannot*, bar hardcoded encryption in dedicated chips, prevent it from being read. The only way you can prevent a copybot-like system would be to sell dedicated black-box "SL consoles", and crack down hard on any attempt to reverse-engineer the secret chips in them.
Please don't take this as any sort of endorsement of copying content, but this belief that LL can somehow magically change how digital data works, and the critique that they don't, is honestly unfair.
Chavo Raven
Registered User
Join date: 19 Dec 2004
Posts: 32
07-23-2008 15:25
First off, it's not just the data being stolen, otherwise it would have to be reuploaded and have a different creator (and no, I don't condone this kind of action, but it would be the smart way to do it), however these stolen animations do have the original creator on them, i.e. the folks listed above, myself included.

No, there is no perfect solution, however there are many solutions that are possible and examples of both open sourced and closed sourced... nothing is perfect, but you can even do something as simple as a closed source library that handles that and that the open source code uses.... various algorithmic possibilities... you could even go so far as to simply have to register a client, i.e. a custom viewer, and LL could give out a token to be coded into the client... if that token doesn't authenticate with the server properly, then the client can't establish a connection....

End point is that there isn't a perfect solution, but there are solutions and possibly many of them. We use them in the business world on the security side as right now. eprom style chips or proprietary boxes aren't the only solution by far. The real point is that LL hasn't put forth nearly enough effort into resolving these kinds of issues.

And p.s. I do this kind of stuff day in and day out in RL. 'nuff said.


---- EDIT ----

Almost forgot to mention the reason I came back to this topic as it is... apparently several people have already filed DMCA against this person, so it appears that they are either stealing the animations directly or taking stolen animations and not speaking to the creators re: using them.
Renato Surtees
Registered User
Join date: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 7
07-23-2008 16:58
well i still feel no matter what when a Animation is no copy it means just that. No matter if they are using 1 set of animations the Motions that are being used by all the others is a form of Copy. And there is a new system out there now that really does it well now. We need to get on this and stop or stop making animations.
Chavo Raven
Registered User
Join date: 19 Dec 2004
Posts: 32
07-24-2008 04:59
If you have info on this system, drop me an in world IM or notecard and I'll take a look at it when I get some free time. No promises on being able to do anything about it, but I can at least take a look and try talking to some of the developers at LL.
Talarus Luan
Ancient Archaean Dragon
Join date: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 4,831
07-25-2008 10:34
From: Chavo Raven
No, there is no perfect solution, however there are many solutions that are possible and examples of both open sourced and closed sourced... nothing is perfect, but you can even do something as simple as a closed source library that handles that and that the open source code uses.... various algorithmic possibilities... you could even go so far as to simply have to register a client, i.e. a custom viewer, and LL could give out a token to be coded into the client... if that token doesn't authenticate with the server properly, then the client can't establish a connection....


It's not that there is "no perfect solution", but really no "effective solution" which 1) justifies the cost and effort involved in implementing it, and 2) avoids unwanted side effects to legitimate users. DRM just doesn't have any real place in the new "digital economy", and no matter how hard one tries, it will never do enough to curb the problem of copyright infringement.

From: someone
End point is that there isn't a perfect solution, but there are solutions and possibly many of them. We use them in the business world on the security side as right now. eprom style chips or proprietary boxes aren't the only solution by far. The real point is that LL hasn't put forth nearly enough effort into resolving these kinds of issues.


That's because there is no such thing as "enough effort". If they spent their entire development budget on DRM, people would still be infringing on others' copyrights, and content creators would still say "you need to put more effort into it". No, I think LL did the right thing in this case. They refrained from getting involved in a useless arms race, going away from the same road that is already crumbling and failing around so many other organizations, and focusing on what is really important, leaving the "protection" of IP in the hands of those most responsible and able to do something about it: the content creators.

From: someone
And p.s. I do this kind of stuff day in and day out in RL. 'nuff said.


So do a lot of us. 'nuff said. ;)
Gally Young
Registered User
Join date: 3 Dec 2006
Posts: 12
07-25-2008 13:09
I'm surprised by this post :/

I know the creator since almost 2 years, she's one of my best friends.
She's very good builder and a very good animator working with Motion Capture (look at her shop to see her creation!) and creator of the "famous" technology "You tube in SL" (http://slurl.com/secondlife/Ardingly/61/133/596).

Few days ago she builds her first sexbed and and have probably done mistakes with animations, but I know her enough to know she will never never never use copybot and hate people using this kind of technologies.

For your informations, her account have been baned the day of the AR (Linden Lab can be very quick) which was the FIRST day of her hollydays without any computer so she maybe wont be able to raise any objections in the famous 10 days...

Hope all this stuff is only a bad Joke, an horrible mistake and I hope all will be back to normal in few days (animations removed from the bed and my friend back in SL) :(

Have a nice evening

Gally

Ps : for selling her bed, she has done video available on youtube : http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=8DxqOKYogao I don't know any copybot doing this kind of job...
Animator Ragu
Registered User
Join date: 10 Jul 2008
Posts: 33
08-21-2008 10:49
She was selling other people animations as pose balls and as full perm, dont pretend its just about her making mistakes, very very few animations in her shop where made by her.

Quote" I'm surprised by this post :/

I know the creator since almost 2 years, she's one of my best friends.
She's very good builder and a very good animator working with Motion Capture (look at her shop to see her creation!) and creator of the "famous" technology "You tube in SL" (http://slurl.com/secondlife/Ardingly/61/133/596).

Few days ago she builds her first sexbed and and have probably done mistakes with animations, but I know her enough to know she will never never never use copybot and hate people using this kind of technologies.

For your informations, her account have been baned the day of the AR (Linden Lab can be very quick) which was the FIRST day of her hollydays without any computer so she maybe wont be able to raise any objections in the famous 10 days...

Hope all this stuff is only a bad Joke, an horrible mistake and I hope all will be back to normal in few days (animations removed from the bed and my friend back in SL)

Have a nice evening

Gally

Ps : for selling her bed, she has done video available on youtube : http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=8DxqOKYogao I don't know any copybot doing this kind of job..."