How to accurately position attachments

I just created a very simple set of attachments for forearms and upper arms. They are really intended to extend the lenght of arms, but to attach them to the body is really a mess. Even they are simply cylinders and I use a pose stand, the two attachments split at the elbow. It is very difficult to set accurately position and rotation of attachments. Position can be seen only on the top of screen, not in the edit panel, and rotation looks not related to arm rotation. How can I create a complete cover for my avatar which works as an esoskeleton larger then the avatar himself since there is no way to accurately position pieces?

Hon, you've posted in the wrong subforum (animations). I believe you should repost this in Building Tips - people who make avatars will see it there.

You could then edit this posting to say it was a mistake.

Open your edit tool and click on a worn attachment. Notice that there's several kinds of grid references in the drop down. I usually use "Attachment Point" when adjusting the position of an attachment. This sets all your edit arrows and hence your changes to be relative to the attachment point.

Attachments rotate on the center mass of the attachment's prims and not on the limb's rotations. As far as positioning, you have to grab the little arrow handles and drag your attachment around. I've learned to drag my mouse very slowly. Have you ever tried to reposition an earring? It's an exercise in madness.

Well, I was not sure which was the rigth forum since the real problem occurs when I animate the avatar. As the avatr is on the pose stand, no problem, but when the avatar begin to walk, for example, the elbows break. I need also to create by poser animations which are based on attachment extensions rather then human size. But how?

Of course I did, but this does NOT solve the problem, even if the avatar is frozen on pose stand. First of all I cannot specify the position by using the entry field but only by mouse. So any accurate positioning is practically impossible. Second, I cannot manage the rotation as I wished. As the avatar starts to walk, some attachments fo away unpredictably. Really a mess to create a natural giant avatar.

Oh, gosh! That's why... I expected attachments would rotate based on the piece of body to which they are attached! That makes everything more complicated. What's about compound attachments? Is the primary prim to rule? What's happen as I animate the avatar?

When you are positioning the attachments they rotate around the center of all the prims combined. So if you attach a cylinder the center of that cylinder is the rotation point. If you attach a combination of cylinders the center of all those objects is the rotation point.

When your arms move with the attachments they move according to the arms' rotation points which are the shoulder and the elbow.

As far as the joints separating at the elbow I've used a semi-circle at the end of both the top and bottom arms which overlap each other at the elbow and cover the separation.

Here is how I imagine you would have to put the prims around an avatar to make a bigger body. As you can see the joints of the avatar are the limitation. You can't make the upper arms and upper arms that long as they have to fit between the shoulder and elbow joints. I guess you can also resize your avatar to the tallest and widest that the sliders will allow. You would also need a special set of animations that lift your body off the ground or else your giant prim legs would be underground.



Here is my idea on how to make a larger avatar by using prims and an animation to control how your avatar moves. The prims are attached to the body as shown and the only points of rotation on the body are circled in red. You would need a special set of animations that only move the red joints. This means you can't move the elbows and knees according to how the avatar moves but perhaps through scripting you can move them.

Bree,

your images are really very clear and valuable. They give a precise hint of two alternative solutions. Practically, if I have to create a "small" giant (let's say twice a normal avatar), I have only to create animations where hip is higher than usual. So I have just to import standard animations in Poser, increase the hip height, and save back. If I wat to create a real giant (let's say eigth times a normal avatar), I have to create a special set of animations based on hand and feet only, and I need scripts to perform complicated movements involving knees and elbows.

I think I will focus on first approach, reducing giant size, but taking advantage of existing animations. Probably it si easier as a first try. Thank you again.

theoretically (because I haven't tried it) you could make a deformer animation (unlinking joints is how I believe they do it) that stretches the av entirely out of length proportion and then build the giant sized attacments over that, you'll need a reformer anim that moveves bones back to joint positions also

I've never heard of that void. I'd love to see how that's done.

So, what if I create a giant avatar in Poser by doubling the standard SL model, and save the animation without automatic scaling? Does it work?

Bree,

it does NOT work....

When I place the avatr on stand, it takes the standard T pose. So I attach each piece to each body part (uppper leg, lower leg, upper arm, lower arm, ....) Then I rotate and position attachments to create the giant... When I click on standup, all pieces goes around... That's simply crazy! Why SL does not maintain the relative position and angles between attachment and body part?

And, as far as animation is concerned, I had no problem to import in poser the standard stand1 animation and higher the hip by 2mt. I did the same for the standard walk animation, but when imported in SL the former works (avatar hip is located at 3mt about), whereas the latter doesn't (avatar continue to walk on ground). Any idea why?

search Resident Answers for "deformer" that should bring up a thread with pics... as to how it's done... I'm just guessing based on my limited poser knowledge and what the pics show

I wouldn't think doubling the model size would have an effect, except perhaps to misalign the joint movements (new ratios)

Got the pics, not how's done. I think they are very interesting and I would like to create a deformer, since that is exactly what I need to create my giant. Apart fun, I think that deforming avatars is a powerful techbnique to create in SL non-human avatars.

So, where can I find info on making deformers? Thank you in advance.

PS I use Poser 5

with out openeing poser (I have a handmedown v4) I'd imagine you turn off limits, and unlink the joints, then translate the bone out.... the steps to do that are maybe a lil beyond my ability.... I suppose you could also directly edit the bvh to produce the effects if it can't be done through the poser interface

well, I have version 5, but I am not (yet) an expert. I do not know how to

- turn off limit
- unlink the joints

Can you help me?