Is it griefing when it's an annoying neighbor?

Exactly what is griefing? I know that it is certainly when someone shoots you with a script and blows you away or kills the sims you are in, but is it also something as simple as intentionally trying to annoy you constantly?

I bought land in Lutra and decided to just go whacky and build something totally out of the ordinary. I made Serenity Park, a park unlike all others. It rains, it snows, there are animals walking around through all of the flowers. You can just sit and relax while watching the droids battle it out, lol. Not a typical type of build for me, lol. And my neighbor, who is not even in the same sim, did NOT like it from the begining.

My first encounter with him was him IMing me letting me know my ghost lights where going into his club, then my animals and ghost lights where going into his club. Understand our buildings are so close to each other you can't even walk between them. I didn't realize this was happening and took the animals down since I couldn't change the script in them. The ghost lights on the other hand, I couldn't control. If you have any experience with these things you will know that they are very pretty and controlled by the winds of sl. They are blown in which ever direction sl takes them and can take them pretty far appearently, lol. I tried to explain this to my new neighbor but he wasn't having any of it. He cursed at me non stop, demanded me to do things, and threatened to grief me. Of coarse this didn't make things better and getting defensive I felt it is my right to have on my land what I wish even if the neighbors don't like the way it looks. He then began putting up signs on his building to advertise his club, but he put them so that they were advertising to my park. I didn't like the signs so I did what I am allowed to do and I made my wall bigger to block them. He moved them up and made MORE signs, so I made my wall bigger. He then made MORE signs and moved them around the wall so that they could be seen from the side of the building. I was getting tired of this so I decided to take the ghost lights out, lol. I log in one day AFTER group returning ALL my stuff because I couldn't find the silly lights with highlight transparent (so no lights are going on his land now) and find he has put his signs THROUGH my wall!!! I don't understand how this can happen since I have auto return on! Seems he has found that if you keep the majority of the prim on your land you can place a small amount of prim on someone else's land and it will not get returned. So he has put enough of his prim that will go right through my wall so that it can be seen in my park! Because the center of the prim is not on my land I cannot delete or return the prim! I'm sorry, but to me THIS is griefing!

I try to get a Linden to come to make sure I am right, that it is griefing, before I file any false reports. Only 2 Lindens on and neither of them want to come (suprised? lol). So I start filing reports and AS I am making reports he starts expanding his club walls to come through my wall the same way! I can't believe the nerve of this rude guy! I have taken everything down that he complained about but the real problem is that he doesn't like my BUILD! So this seems to give him the right to harass me and there doesn't seem to be anything that can be done about it! Lindens don't care and what good does filing an abuse report do? You never know if anything is ever done about it or not.

Anyway, so the feud continues and then he finally gets a nice girl to come talk to me. I like her, and the only thing on my land at this point is an ugly pic of him that someone else put there. I delete the pic, my land is pretty much empty because of the group return and I feel like what was once a pretty park is dead. So I slowly start to redo it, making sure no particle lights go into his club.

I log on and what do I find, another sign, a different one but a sign facing into my club I build the wall up again, the sign is moved now to show into my park...again. I IM him telling him it is rude to intentionally do this, he is just rude and doesn't care, he says he doesn't like my build. My wall has to get bigger so that you can't see his sign. My prims get used up on the wall and now it sits with a huge ugly wall in my park and his annoying sign at the top of it trying to show down into my park.

So fellow residents, is this griefing? It is certainly harassment. Will anything be done with the 6 reports I filed for harassment on this person? I don't have faith that anything will. What would you do? I am tempted to sell the land, but then that would be exactly what he wants.

The part where he is putting his stuff intentionally over your property (or actually on it), *is* definitely griefing.

After politely asking him to remove it, you should abuse report it every single time he does so and every single day that you log on to find that it still is there.

Putting up a wall is a totally valid thing to do, but if you want to be extra polite about it, make his side of the wall invisible so that it is not a bother to him, and put a nice texture on your side to make it pleasant for yourself.

Take the high road and don't fight back, just do passive resistance things like the wall and report, report report. Eventually, the Lindens will be forced to do something as the reports mount up.

Unfortunately, this sort of thing has been going on in SL since time immemorial. Probably the best known example was the "Impeach Bush" thing. There's really nothing you can do to stop someone from putting any sign they like on their own land.

As for the ones that were protruding onto your land, that is against the rules, and typically Lindens will remove such objects upon request if the owner won't. There's nothing you can really do yourself though to stop it since the location of a prim is always its center point. So, if a prim is 10M long, then 4.999 meters of it can extend over your land, and you're powerless to block it.

Oh dear, another case of the Escalating Walls.

I like Jeremy's advice; I think that's sound.

On my shop, snow falls on Green Gables cottage from the lot next door, which is actually in another sim. I view it as interesting. I suppose some people might get all bent out of shape over it, though.

I hope this situation resolves itself for you, or maybe you manage to find some other land where you can do your park ideas, which sound a whole lot more delightful than his club.

coco

Although, I hate to say it, it does sound like you might have been the first to put a foot wrong: if your "ghost lights" were really going into his club, your neighbor deserved a fix and an apology then, but it sounds like there was some delay. He may feel like his wall is just more of the same to you, and that wouldn't make it OK, but it might make him feel more justified...well, I wasn't there, I absolutely don't know. Just a thought.

-Sheba
http://bathsheba.com

Just a thought but.. is it really worth it to stay there?
Maybe sell up and find somewhere nicer to put your lovely forest

If a persons actions are Inadvertant and they are willing to cease when you ask them Politely or at least discuss a reasonable compromise then this is Not Griefing.
If their actions are Intentional, Focused specificly upon Your Person or Property, and/or the Person repeatedly Refuses, Ignores, or becomes abusive over requests to Cease and Desist THEN it is Griefing.

What your neighbor is doing with the sign Is Griefing, But there is Little you can do as long as he Keeps his signs on His Property.

Having said this, i DO have to agree with Bathsheba, you Should have made every effort to Remove the lights, and If you were having trouble, Let him know there would be a slight delay, Then Ask someone for Help getting rid of them. When you said, "They are blown in which ever direction sl takes them and can take them pretty far appearently, lol. I tried to explain this to my new neighbor but he wasn't having any of it." you didn't tell us If you were explaining that he would have to Put Up with the lights because of their action, or If you were explaining a difficulty in removing them. I don't think what YOU were doing was Intentionally Griefing, but there WAS a breakdown of communication, and general Courtesy.

I was once Building a Nice Nightclub, For space's sake it had to be close to the edge of my Property. Shortly after i began construction, my neighbor put up an Arboritum, with a tree that protruded two meters into my Bar. I IMed (Over advice from friends to basicly Nuke the person) and asked him Politely to Move the tree two meters to the left. It was done in short order (No apology, but then i didn't really need one) So i messaged him back, said Thank you, and gave him a small Gift (Just to cement friendship).
I've said it in Other threads, I'll say it here, A little courtesy costs us Nothing.

Angel.

I agree with others that you probably brought this on yourself in a way.

A good rule of thumb that I tell people with problem neighbors, is to build a prim and make it as LONG as you can. Then set that on the edge of your lot for a second and see where it ends, build a wall with something pretty on that side, you do lose some land space, but you gain some sanity. Nothing can protude that wall now that isn't on your land that you can return, because the specs center it past your property line if it goes through that wall.

My strategy was to provide a buffer area around my lot. In other words, I put my fence a few meters INSIDE my land, enough to even put a few plants and trees around the OUTSIDE of the fence.

I say that's what I did, because now I have only one neighbor left, in the middle of my lot, that I use this strategy with. And unfortunately, two sides of the lot I didn't use that strategy at all, because that's the corner I started in, before I caught on to the fence-with-trees outside idea.

In a month or two, though, I will probably redo my lot, and institute the trees-outside-the-fence on those sides as well. This only works if you have don't have a tiny lot, of course. But I think it makes my lot look better and more realistic, not jammed up against the neighbors, and it probably helps the neighbors, too - even makes it look like they OWN part of my lot, so they gotta love it!

coco

Good advice, Jeremy. Heather, I'd just add that if you do put up a wall with one side invisible, make it phantom too, so that people who hit it don't wonder why their avs are suddenly walking in place. LOL