Democracy in SL - Do we need a constitution?

I've been watching the laws debate unfold...

As citizens in the RL we should of course abide by the laws that are set place in our home countries - if we do not agree wth those laws we have the democratic right to ask our parliements why those laws are in place - however we do not have the right to break them if we simply don't agree with them.

Typically laws exists to protect innocent people.

In SL it's slightly different - we hav to agree to a TOS supplied by Linden Labs, but this is not the same as a democratically agreed constitution. An although SL does not exist in the physical sense as a nation, we do exist a community - is it not time for the residents of SL to have a referendum on exactly how we should behave as a community?

The first step is a draft constitution to define what exactly is morally or ethically acceptable behaviour in SL as voted on and agreed by the residents.

For example:

Is sexual age-play between consenting adults acceptable behaviour in SL?

If 90% of the residents vote no - then it IS NOT acceptable
If 90% of the residents vote yes - then it IS acceptable

Obviously if there is a 50/50 split in opinion then the issue needs to be broken down into more sub-issues and re-voted on until a conclusion is reached

(Of course we are still governed by the laws applicable in our country of origin)

I'm not a lawyer or a politician - just a simple resident of SL who is interested to see it evolve for the greater benefit of all. In the above example I would vote No.

yes but why u think that one KING will give us democracy ??

100 years ago, this may have been true, but now laws only serve to protect special intrests, those in political power, and to provide funds for those in power. Don't believe me? Suggest that we repeal every law passed since 1900. Murder, rape, theft.............all were illegal in 1900. These were laws which protected the innocent. Now we are overwhelmed with malum prohibitum laws, things that are wrong soley because some group says they are wrong. Now in most of Europe, Canada and parts of the United States, it is a crime to have the wrong thoughts or to speak unapproved words.

As for democracy, well mob rule is never pretty. It may start with laws to "protect", but then how long untl a tax is put into place to provide prim genitals to noobs?

A noble sentiment but just not doable .

Even if LL agreed, its own decisions would overrule any "constitution". And who would be allowed to vote? Premiums, verifieds, or whoever can make the most unverified alts?

Another problem is that a majority vote does nothing to protect minorities. If the majority of the SL population (however you see that) votes that LL should not allow same sex partners in the profile field... is that a victory for democrary? Or just oppression of a minority?

The only real reason residents always run into problems with definitions and policies is because - to us - LL makes it very clear it has absolutely no interest in policing the grid or even explaining its own policies (paraphrased "the community will decide what is mature and what is adult".

Hmmmmm, NO.

Someone in world was giving me a bit of history about SL and this was considered a couple of years ago and no-one wanted it.

| say No to a resident government or other body - i want no SL resident telling me what I should or could do in world. I abide by the TOS and that should be sufficient. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Kitty, I am straight myself and not interested in sex in SL but no-one should have the right to ban same sex partners.

Amy - who chooses what is morally or ethically acceptable? And who are we to impose our morals on any other residents? I feel uneasy about sexual ageplay but the people participating are adults (I hope) and its none of my business what they do.

So let's all play our own SL and let others do the same.

I don't know how a constitution should be. Why not diferent constitutions for different places ? It would be great to have a competition in terms of land, money and citizens between two or more economical and political systems.

But if we think on laws be also have to decide how to force people to follow them. I think SL is now too much magic, if we want laws they should be enforced by something like real citizens who are paid money to work as policemen and who are given means to be able to do it. If we agree to have laws we must be ready to pay more taxes to buy the time of the citizens who work for us. A realistic system like this will never work very well, but a magic solution, something as being able not to hear noise or becoming invulnerable when somebody uses a weapon against you... are magic, easy solutions that makes SL a less interesting world.

And what has the community decided? Where can we see what this decision is?

I mean obviously we can't create or enforce laws in SL - but we can make moral and ethical decisions on what is deemed to be acceptable behaviour in the community. It's just never been clearly defined. ( and by nature has to be defined by the community )

I mean when some journo decides to have a plug at SL becase its a haven for paedophiles then it would be good to have some sort of document that says hey - we the people of second life have agreed that it is not acceptable blah blah and blah and this is our position.

Do we all want to be tarred by the same brush?

/me starts writing....

"We the people of the......"

Hmm no, that just, ummm.... no.

The TOS is the law here , And to be honest ... thats enough law for me .

Think about it like this , you / we elect a govenment here( it would take forever to find the right people for a start ) and befor you know it more laws are being made .

In the real world im all for democratic rights ... but we only have to watch the news or read a news paper to see that the laws here in RL don't work .

SL is very un-complicated atm ... and i think if we set up a governmet here it would just make things worse .

A vote system on some subjects would be a good idea , but then you have the problem of people gaming it or uninformed people voting against somthing that they don't fully understand yet .

For me anyway ... the TOS is law ... i follow it

Linden Labs rule supreme, they own the land, they own your money in SL, they reserve all rights to change the TOS at any time. Residents have no way of enforcing "law", and therefor residents drafting "law" is pointless.

Any resident run domocratic organisation would simply act as a way to transmit opinion to LL, and as such there is no need to make it more "official" by drafting a constitution or anything like that.

There is a constitution in Second Life. It's the contract into which you and Linden Labs enter when you sign up for the service.

There are also different constitutions for different regions. They are the covenants to which you agree when you buy land.

The problem is that Linden Labs does not listen to what its constituents want, and the constituents want to have a voice. Linden Labs won't listen to words. If you want to influence Linden Labs, accept that fact that the only thing to which they will listen is The Bottom Line.

I disagree - My take is -


Typically laws exist to ensure private property rights of influential people.

Also Typically they exist to enforce Social Order. Some of these do protect people.

Since the introduction of representative goverments this has extended to include laws that enforce the will of the majority.


Its codified Rights - such as the Bill of Rights - that protect the innocent people from abuses of those laws.



I dont think democracy would work in Second Life - since Linden Labs would have veto power over everything and also could impose rules whenever.

Besides Mob rule - even 90% needed Mob rule - is scary.

Yeah I mean I'm not a lawyer so maybe my terminology is mixed up and "law" is a bit of a misleading notion

Maybe it's more like a Community Code?

Private sims provide a means by which community codes and standards can be created.

If there is a demand for a certain type of community, some enterprising person should come up and provide it.

I would almost consider doing something like that with a private sim. But I don't trust Linden Labs with that much money.

sees the spawning of 1ooo threads on the same subject :-/

I must admit it would be an interesting experiment, but it wouldn't work. Ever.

I remember seeing this topic ages ago in the General Discussion forum when we had one and then in the politics forum.

This forum isn't for general discussion; there are many Resident Sites where this discussion is appropriate — Resident Answers is for Resident-to-Resident help. I'll close this thread...

I think you mean a Bill of Rights not a constitution, the SL constitution would be the TOS.