Are SL object permissions borked?

I posted a similar thread in the "Builders" forum and in that forum I was asking questions to make sure I was doing things the way you are supposed to do with SL permissions. But I just observed something with my ALT which makes me throw my hands in the air and say "it's not me" ... SL object permissions are all borked out.

I am building some products that I want to bring to the market soon. I have tagged them as "no mod", "no copy" but "sell/give away". When my ALT buys the products they get delivered to the ALT with these permissions as they are supposed to be. My ALT then rezzes the products and so far all is well (well not all really as I found what appears to be a huge hole in SL property permissions ... but I won't get into that here, you can go to the "Building" forums if you are curious). But when the ALT "Takes" the object up from the sim, all of the suddent SL has changed the "sell/give away" permission to "no sell/no give away".

No it's not me ... SL's object property persmissions are all borked.

Yeah the object permissions in SL can be a shifty bunch...but after considering the way it works, I came to the conclusion that it's a good system.

Assuming that what you are experiencing is not a SL glitch, the first thing I can think of is that your object has inventory (scripts, notecards, textures, etc) that are set No-Transfer. If this is true, your alt would have received the object with the permissions you set for it, but once it has been rezzed and taken back into inventory, the inventory's permissions take effect and the No-Transfer tag is added.

It would take a while to explain how every bit of the permissions system works (and I admit that I don't know everything surely), but it would be worthwhile for a content creator to get to know the ins-and-outs. Do a search or try experimenting with it.

Good luck!

Neb

I have notecards which are tagged as "no sell/no give away" so maybe this explains the problem I am seeing (I can change the notecards). But I found a bigger problem where textures and scripts from internal prim "Contents" folders can be removed from "no mod" objects. That makes no sense whatsoever.

The changing permissions were due to "permissions cascading". Essentially, when an object is rezzed in the world, it takes the most restrictive set of permissions from those on the object itself and those of any inventory it has. But note the key words, "when an object is rezzed" - when it isn't rezzed and is just being passed around in inventory, this effect doesn't occur. As mentioned above the solution is to make sure that all items in the inventory of the one you are selling have the same permissions as the top level item.

The removal of inventory from "no mod" containers has been a feature as long as I can remember. I'm not sure what the reason for it is, but it isn't something that will be fixed.

I don't think Yumi mentioned it explicitly: if any prim in a NC/T linkset has a C/NT item in its inventory then the whole becomes NM/NC/NT.

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You can't keep anyone from extracting something from a prim's inventory, regardless of modify/no modify on the container. The behaviour for a no mod container is:
* if you try to delete it directly, the prim will shout something along the lines of "Not permitted"
* if you drag a NC/T inventory item from the prim to your own inventory, it'll vanish from the prim and appear in your own inventory
* if you drag a C/NT inventory item from the prim to your own inventory, it'll stay put inside the prim, although you do end up with a copy in your own inventory

So even though you can't ever keep someone from getting the item out of the prim into their own inventory (they can always drag/drop), you can make sure that it will always be present in the prim no matter what (as long as the inventory item is C/NT).

The only use I can think of for wanting to keep an item inside of a prim at all times is a "trial script" though. If people want to break what they bought under any other circumstance, let them. Noone likes NC/NT items.

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You don't need the textures to be in the prim's inventory, you can just use their UUID instead.

Instead of:
llSetTexture("texture-name-goes-here", ALL_SIDES);
you'd use:
llSetTexture("00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000", ALL_SIDES);

(Right-click on the texture in your inventory and pick "Copy Asset UUID" and use Ctrl-V to paste it)

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I bought a couple poseball set where the poseballs were "no mod". The anims themselves were perfect, but the positioning was off (a cuddle looses much of its appeal when the other person's fingers come out through your eye socket ).

The way things are, that was no problem whatsoever since I could simply extract the anims from the poseballs and put them in my own poseballs (the original ones were quite hideous as well).

If no mod had meant that I couldn't extract the anims then I'd have been left with a useless purchase. There are dozens more cases where I cannibalized something I bought because the creator had either messed things up, or because I had a better use for the things I was extracting.

The SL permissions are already heavily biased towards creators, there's really no reason to further restrict what consumers can do with things they've paid for. If you want absolute control over your creation, don't sell it.

Well, I too found out just this week that permissions change after rezzing and taking back in inventory. I've been in business here well over a year and never heard this from my customers before or experienced it myself. Regardless if there are items with other perm settings in the object. But items remain (for example) modify, even if perms have changed into no modify after taking back in inventory.

It's stupid to give all parts of an object the same perms. A heavily scripted and textured item could be modify prim-wise, that's okay, but no way I will make my hard worked scripts and textures modify so people can simply copy them and put it in a freebie box or worse, sell them.

I think the OP might have a point here: are permissions borked? Or did I just never notice it before?

That makes sense. I will try that out. It is a lot more work, but likely worth the effort if I want to protect the textures.

and I appeared to have resolved my "transfer" to "no transfer" problem because I had a couple of notecards which were tagged as "no resell/no give away".

Thanks for the replies ...