The wanna be scammer

So I'm out Land shopping for a tenant who wanted a specific type of lot.

This avatar walks up to me and says Hi. I'm a friendly guy, I say Hi back and we have a minute of chit chat then she ups and says she's learning how to be a scripter and wanted to know if I'd help her with a new script.

WHOOP WHOOP! Red Flag!

The hair on the back of my neck just raised and I was ready for the next line.
(Note, this is not the chat log. Just a recap of basically what happened)

Me, What kinda help do you need?
Her, Well I'll give you 50 Lindens and the script in a box. You rez the box and it will ask for debit permissions, grant it permissions then it will take the 50 lindens from you.
Me, And does it work?
Her, yeah it does.
Me, So why do you need me to test it?
Her, (after a second to think) To make sure it works.
Me, How about you give me the box, then Ill give it back to you and then it will give me the $50 Lindens?
Her, No that won't work.

Well you get the idea. I played with her for a few minutes then went back to work.
My question is, How can I report a crime that didn't take place? I know this was a scam and if I had rezzed this object I'd be a much poorer person than I allready am. lol
Is there a way to have LL investigate true criminals like this besides the AR?

I don`t know but id AR that person and send the chat log. You were smart enough not to do it, but not everyone out there is. Who will she hit next?

Maybe you should have taken the box. I am sure that LL should be very curious to see who it sends the "debits" to.

On the other hand, its probably better with con artists to just bail out fast and file an AR.

Yes for this level of event there is probably someone better to contact than just an easily lost/mishandled AR report, but I dunno who. One of the specific Lindens, I am sure.

Just a caution that it's not safe to try this even if you don't have any L$ to be stolen.

In general, what you rez is scripted to move away as soon as it's granted debit permissions so that you can't delete it.

This reminds me of an old Sega CD game I played years ago. It was an old school RPG called Lunar. Anyway, after interacting with a few locals in a village, you find this guy standing near a chest. Usually, this particular type of chest contained something useful or gold. The local warns "Don't look in the chest. Whatever you do, don't look in the chest!" Looking in the chest opened a vortex that takes all your gold. The OP's little tale did sound familiar...

Pfft... how many times do I need to say this. These guys are AMATEURS.

Basically, all these 'theft' scripts do is sent L$1 to the scammer's account over and over.

Anyone with half a brain could do something that works much quicker and still be thorough.

Seriously, if the big orange warning isn't enough, I dunno what is.

How about a way to STOP the damn script from taking L$ through debit once it's noticed that it is fraudulant? An option to RECIND the permissions in the event of theft or questionable dealings.

Is that concept so freaking hard for LL to grasp?

~Jessy

heh take the 50 and the box, and then say thank you? scam the wanna be scammer?

then hand the box over to a linden so they can study the contents...

I think the reason LL won't move so quickly on that is that llGiveMoney, the function used to steal money, at the moment doesn't return anything - the script has no way of knowing if it succeeded or failed. That means that legitimate business could be messed up by people abusing the permissions system.

A good example is the Gigas boxes. When you buy an item from Gigas, you don't pay for it right away - instead it sends you a box. You drop the box on the floor, and it tells you the cost of the item. You give the box debit permission, then you right-click and pay the box the appropriate amount. Since you own the box, this only pays the money to yourself - but it does enable the script to know that you have enough money. As soon as it detects the payment and knows you have the money, it uses the debit to send the money to the item creator, and contacts the network to send the item to you.

With a debit permission revocation, you can just grant it debit permission when it asks, then revoke debit permission, pay the money, and watch as the script fails to pay the money to the creator because the permission is gone, but since the script has _no_ notification that the debit failed, it will send your item anyway.

A far better solution would be to allow everyone to use the "about land" and "region/estate" object return controls in every parcel on every sim, but only for their own objects.

As each of us was 'made' including a brain function.. and LL have given each of us the ability to click either an Accept, or Decline button, why should they be bothered if our brain takes the wrong decision. At best they can make the process more prominent.. oh wait they have! You wouldn't give someone/starnger your password, incase they cleanned out your account.. but you would press 'Accept' when the message says 'Give permissions to take your money'?

Technically the 'alleged' scammer hasn't done anything wrong. As you chose not to accept the object and become a victim, no reportable action was commited and so they shouldnt be AR'ed. Just because you assume you know what someones intent is doesnt mean your right.

Well, for my suggestion of a "||StopGiveMoney" type script, I would think that would have to be restricted to objects owned by that avatar.

Another aspect might be to make the process to "||StopGiveMoney" tied to only work on land an avatar owns. Sort of like the "||Unsit" command. Though due to the amount of non-landowners in SL, this would need a way for them to clear this as well.

Aside from the complex example mentioned, though, I don't see a lot of vendors affected by this. Most vendors I've see and use accept payment then send the product once paid. Personally, the seller described above would lose a sale in me because when that object I "bought" from the vendor asked me to "allow debit" I'd click no and delete that object. I will ~never~ give someone else's object the permission to remove L$ from me for one simple sale.

~Jessy

No, but AR's are the only means of detialing such an event to LL. A properly worded AR, saying about your suspisions not outright calling the person a theif, may allow LL to quietly look into that account. IF that person was doing "questionable activities" then that would show up in that person's transaction history. Say 20-40 transactions of 50L$ from various other accounts, and continued to have that 50L$ (or 1L$) taken in a noticable pattern.

This would give LL reason to investigate further, possibly freezing the account and possibly saving a lot of people from theft/fraud.

Innocent until proven guilty, but you can't prove guilt until you look at the facts, and you can't look at the facts until you know something is wrong.

~Jessy

..... and there I was Mulud.. working away minding my own business, when this little cutie walked up and gave me a present.. though how sweet.. so I dropped it and it asked me if I wanted to give away all my money and I agreed...

Judge Homer stands up and takes a deep breath...... DOH!

This should be built into into SL you should be able to see a list of all the Objects you have granted Debit permissions and be able to recind any or all remotely.

If its not possible to do now - it should be changed to do it. fraud protection is a bit more important than most of the new "features" being added to SL

The objects I was talking about _were_ owned by the avatar. Sometimes objects you own have to take money from you on your land (eg, for services) even though maybe you'd rather avoid paying if possible. Example include scripted games which pay commission to the scripter, some remote vending systems, LandRing subscriptions, etc..

1) Only objects you own can request debit permissions.

2) Any kind of "recind debit perms" action IMO should only work AFTER the object has debited you at least once. In such a case the networked vendor as described above couldn't be screwed with while the scammer-type object could lose its permission.

Blimey, did everyone else hear the OP kicking himself repeatedly?

Someone tried this trick on me in a sandbox ages ago.

Another time someone gave me 20L$ to test a pyramid thingie they'd bought. But I just kept the money........bet they DIDN'T expect that, LOL !!!

Ouch!

Yes in "Hind" site I definately should have at least let them give me the box. Then I would have been able to prove the intent of the wanna be. No way would I have given it debit permissions though.
As for taking the money, naw that would make me just as bad as them. But it is fun to think about! I used to be a scam baiter so am far from falling for so see through a scam but it would be nice to be able to warn people who don't read the forums.

So basically there's no one to report this to and since no real crime was commited an AR wouldn't really be appropriate. hmmmm maybe make it one of those handy little log in messages. "Don't grant objects or people permission to take your money unless you are willing to give them ALL your money."

BTW, has anyone seen the new debit perm request window? WOW! It's HUGE and yellow with all kinds of warnings. Nice job on this one LL! Now if you could keep my hair out my but and make my default shape my DEFAULT shape instead of Ruths I'd be a happy camper.

Wish I'd been asked this.

Response = "Penguin".

Naturally. Maybe with a chicken dance too.

I am so predictable.