Question about customizing an avatar

Which has the greater influence on the avatar's face and head, the "skin" or the "shape"?

You know I have to say skin. Even though a different shape will make a skin look completely different... if you don't start with a good skin there is no way your are going to make the face look good.

I'd say 50/50.

I agree more with Eli. The shape has something to say but the skin the most. I don't mean totally monstrous shapes, but shapes that tries to fit into the "norm" of a human face.



Same shape. Pic from

Marianne, I think what Lance means by 50/50 is that once you have that lovely skin on, changing or adjusting the face shape can change how the face looks dramatically.

So my answer would be, skin is crucial, but what's under it is also important. That is how many people can have the same skins, yet still look unique.

Here are some pics from October 2008, when a group of us tried using our same shapes, but different skins:



So...the shape does look similar with all the various skins...Maureen just looks very different b/c of the skin.

Make your shape the basic 'type' you want.

Then skin-shop and adapt and tweak as needed.

I find that "poor" skins, completely usurp your face and change it to a mask of the skin you purchased.

Proper skins should compliment your face shape and your head should not be a walking billboard for a skin that makes everyone a member of a clone army.

Eloh's Pleiades skins do this, as well as one particular tan/ethnic skin from Redgrave.

If you put on a skin and think "i look totally different", well its all in the skin, and if you prefer to see the shape you purchases or chiseled with your own hand, find a skin that compliments facial shapes and is not a 'mask'.

Ditto to all the comments so far.....

Since I do a lot of custom work.....I spend a lot of time focusing on details. Definitely a well designed skin is going to be key......and definitely the shape you put underneath it, is going to effect what parts are enhanced. I can break down some critical elements and maybe this will help you in your quest....

Eyebrows....... I can't say enough about how dramatically the shape and height of the brows will effect the face. The painted brow cannot be changed in color or design....but it's shape can easily be adjusted with the hair/eyebrow sliders. Using the height, arch, and pointiness sliders will help fine tune the face. These adjustments only work if the skull/brow cap is modify. But, most are, and certainly the ones that come in your LL library are....so just look up brow in your inventory and grab one that doesn't have modify restrictions. It wont matter what it says it is....once worn you'll be able to adjust the shape.


Lips.... Oh that pesky mouth! Again, an area where the way the skin is painted will dramatically effect the look. If you love a skin....but your mouth looks goofy.....it's easily adjusted. Playing with the mouth sliders is a must to get an idea of how that one feature effects a face. Often times a skin is designed with a certain look in mind, so the lips may not be painted exactly evenly (top to bottom ratio) so adjusting the sliders on the mouth is sometimes a necessary evil when using different skins.


Eyes...... I think this is an overlooked area when people are trying to create a look. The heavyness of the upper lid, and the depth of the eye is going to make a huge difference in how makeup appears. When I'm making skins, most times I have an idea already about the type of eyes the makeup will work with. An Asian look often has a lot of exposed lid, and very shallow eyes......and the skin can be painted to best reflect that concept. So again, eye depth and lid exposure are going to make a difference with skins that have specifically designed makeup.


It's really best to spend some time messing with a practice shape and different skins, to get an idea of exactly how the shape & skin work together (or not lol) When I do a custom avatar...... I begin by doing a skin that best represents the look I'm aiming for......then once wearing it.....I sculpt the shape beneath it until I get the look I want. Before I did my own skins....I simply shopped for demos that best suited my final goal, and again, did the shape while wearing the demo.

Just have fun with it ideally...look for a skin that appeals to you, and then tweek your shape to enhance that look. (this is all equally true for guys skins & shapes......lips and brows make a HUGE difference in the look)

Both are equally important in my opinion. While getting my shape to where I wanted it was my priority, a good/bad sking can make a big difference.

Just for fun, I did the opposite of Maureen's experiment, and tried all the shapes in my inventory with the same skin.

Can you tell which is the real me?



Some of them look pretty weird, but for each shape, somewhere in my inventory is a skin that looks right with it!

A friend of mine owns a shop called Sophistashapes- she has a good plan going in that her shapes are made with specific Belleza skins in mind. So when she sells the shape with it comes a styling card that tells you the skin, hair etc. Yes - it could possibly turn you into a 'clone' but - for some folks, particularly new people, having a road map is a good thing.

Whoa! That was some shapes..... Okay a "wrong" shape can ruin a very well crafted skin.

They're both pretty important, as you can probably tell from the posts already. The problem is that Skins are fairly expensive compared to Shapes, which can be adapted yourself to fit the skin.
For new avatars I think its going to be easier to find a good skin that you like, then play with the shape to get the look you want.

Having said that, I buy skins to fit to my shape, since my shape is more 'me' than the skin. But, when shopping for skins there are a few key features I need, to know that it will look good on my av. That can be hard to do, and there are plenty of skins which look positively awful on me, so I would definitely not recommend doing it this way - especially if you haven't been in SL long.

With the help of a regular poster here (though, I've not seen you here lately......she's still active in SL since I see her often online) and over two years of messing with the shape sliders I finally got what I want. I looked at what she did on a shape I bought from her quite a while ago, talked to her about what she did and used all that I saw and learned and made a shape of my own...........Thank you Rhaoth.

And now I make my own skins (for the most part) but I do still purchase a few.........the skins have to compliment my shape or they are deleted. I won't change my shape for any skin.........my own or anyone elses. So, from my perspective shape is the most important.

Thanks everyone for your input. What has baffled me from time to time is when I get a shape I like and close on a skin but the face just doesn't seem to work well. I think I understand the issues now so, again, thanks for your help.

I'm the sort of person skin and shape makers dread.

Each avatar has exactly 1 skin and 1 shape.

For me, they are both central to defining the look of that avatar.

I will agree with those above who've said that they really do have to match well. Its obvious that a good skin on a bad shape or a good shape on a bad skin won't work. But a good skin on a good shape that don't match also won't work.

The wrong shape can leave that mascera making your avatar look like she has frankenstein staring brows. Or bubbled cheeks, or all sorts of oddities. Tweak the shape a little, or put on a different skin, and suddenly it looks just right.

But at the end of the day... it has to be something you log onto, look at, and 'feel' that that is you at that moment.

I've got a neko, an usagi, and a faun - but depending on my mood... they each do that for me.

Hmmm...

While skin and shape makers might dread someone like me, HUD, AO, hair, and clothing makers would love me. Each of those avatars has her own setup - AO, dance HUD, assorted utility HUDs, sensations/xcite kit, and clothes. Often buying the same outfit multiple times...

I'm going to go with 51/49 i'll the user figure out which gets which... but as a simple guide, some shapes just don't fit some skins well, and vice versa. never mind that the image one is trying to create may be made harder or easier by either.

This is all why the smart shopper only buys from a place with demos.

And the smart seller knows to provide a demo for people to try out.

Its a bit harder with demo shapes - you're protection and way to motivate them to buy the real product is only in giving the demo zero permissions. But some people will be just fine looking EXACTLY like your model. (Another trick might be to make a demo body and a demo head, and purposefully make the other part of the body horrible looking / squashed / etc - and no-modify.)

They don't make the demo shapes with giant hands and feet anymore?

Oh that might work.

Or it might explain the big buff 'I'm so cool cause I got shades' guy I saw the other day with hands that looked like they were set to 0 on the dial...

/me suppresses very naughty comment