Problems with sim owner

Hi there. I was wondering if anyone knew if there was some kind of rules that sim owners who sell land and take tiers have to adhere to. A group of us are having major problems with a vindictive sim owner. I have seen and SL lawyer, and he has talked of RL court, but there's no way any of us can afford anything like that.

TIA

If your being harrassed then i would file an AR.

If its finacial, then a RL legal proffesional is your only true recourse.

there are no rules, outside the TOS, that the sim owner need to follow to resovle a consumer dispute.

perhaps ther should be binding arbitration or something like that, but thats a whole thread by itself.

Generally a Sim owner can do what they want as long as they follow the Terms of service. Without explaining in detail your problem, it's going to be hard for anyone here to advise you.

they can basicly do wtf they want, not much to do about it then try and make it known so ppl don`t go there with no other consiquence

to bad another bad post is up bout it as there are a good amount of ppl who try and do their best for their tenants and all u hear is "reclaimed here, reclamed there..."

I'm sorry, there's not much you can do. I'm assuming your problem involves land or money paid. Sim owners have almost limitless powers over you and can even reclaim land they've "sold" to you and kick you out with no compensation. LL will not get involved in a dispute of this sort since they consider themselves a service provider. If the sim owner is griefing you in some way, you can report that--but that will only result in a warning--not a payment of any kind.

Short of getting a RL lawyer, you are essentially screwed. If you continue with the game I would strongly advise you either buy your own island or purchase mainland where you have direct ownership and no esate manager can give you grief.

Granted I don't know any of the details....but can't you just take all your stuff and walk away? You'll lose a bit of money but you won't be liable for anything - it's why you always have to pay in advance. THEY are liable for the tier to LL, but if you don't pay this vindictive av, well then the financial onus is on them, not you.

The loss has got to be less than you'd pay in RL court and lawyering fees.

I've seen discussions taken 'public' on forums such as secondcitizen.com; sometimes a sim owner will respond there.

The best way to limit liability to a sim owner is to not to pay too much for upfront land fees in a private estate, or have too many $L outstanding with them (i.e. don't pay tier too far ahead).

I hope this information doesn't come too far after the fact, but there's no better way to limit liability than by keeping your $L on a very short leash.

I have many residents in my own sims who are on small lots and are rarely more than 4-5 days 'paid up' on average - I couldn't do any more financial damage to them than they would spend at Starbucks on a fancy latte' and a stickybun muffin.

never even looked there

true on the upfront time but ur working with rental boxes right? hate the damn things and working on my own payment system

as of paying tier to far ahead i agree with, atm doing it per month as that`s the easiest way without an headake while doing manual but doing it weekly and let them pay * weeks ahead is a good system for the ones who don`t want to pay months of tier at once, downside is that they have to pay each week

think u`ve got a good system in place desmond, actually makes me think how to improve with all the positive feedbacks that u even have a waiting list, might aswell say it outloud, ur abit of a role model for the kids who want to grow up

The Terms and Conditions of your use of the parcel of land provided by the sim owner is typically outlined in the Convenant tab of the About Land window. When you purchased the land you agreed to the Covenant whether you read it or not.

A sim can have only one owner. Even if grouped, only one person can pay the bill. And that person can evict and reclaim parcels on their own sim at a whim if they wish whether an infraction occurred or not.

Having been banished from the sim a landlord should not pursue you. They can ask you for money owed, if any, and it's up to you to fulfill your obligation (if any) or not. The Lindens don't have to inject themselves into the dispute as outlined in Section 5.1 of the Terms of Service.

Take a moment to review the Community Standards and see if your former landlord has engaged in anything that interferes with your peaceful enjoyment of Second Life. If so, file the appropriate Abuse Report.

Thanks peeps. The guy is basically making it hard for us to sell our land. I have just one 4096 plot left, which he sells at 39200, and my sister has 4. He keeps changing the price of his down and up and down, forcing us to follow. Then he suddenly said he would take his off sale to give us a chance, just as monthly tiers were due. We paid the tiers, and now he has put them for sale again at way below usual price. 20000 and 10000. We can't compete with that. I may "only" lose 40000 if I abandoned, but sis would lose 4 x that. Plus the tiers we just paid. This just doesnt seem right to me. And no... I won't tell you where there is beautiful island living for just 10000

(Off to pull the TOS to pieces)

Heres one thing that came to mind when I realized that there is no real recourse to the topic of this thread, but between two willing parties, it shouldnt be any problem.

I dont have a prewritten example of what it should read, but a standard document explaining all the details regarding the transaction being made, with all the blanks filled in, should be "signed and dated" by both persons or all persons involved and no mod copies distributed to all.

A copy of the "legal" document is made to all parties, a witness for both persons should also be present maybe? Each person should sign a no copy version of a notecard with the information and pass back to the land owner. A picture is taken by each person to document for themselves the day this transaction took place. One all signatures have been obtained, a no mod copy is given to each person to keep as a receipt. Does this make sense?

Now, if there was some sort of Resident/Linden source to store all of these "signed" documents for future reference, like references on what land owner is most reliable, etc. That would certainly be helpful.

Any input or corrections?

To be more specific: a picture with the notecard open taken, and saved at the largest size, then uploaded in world (since this seems to make notecards easier to read vs. uploading right away)

While you can't name names on the SL forums, you can certainly tell us which sim you call 'home' in SL.

Anyway, another reason to go premium and deal directly with LL rather than anonymous landlords.

I would assume the price to get out without taking full loss is going to be what you lose on pricing a few lots really low. Don't follow this guys pricing lead at all. I'd price a couple lots quite low to cut back on the liability your sister has with that much tier, first off. Undercut him and eat the loss if you have to. Dont let the fool play games with you. Advertise yer sales a bit. Just cuz he drops a price doesn't mean he'll steal the only person lookin for a nice place.

Gosh... and I wonder how "willing" these parties will be on the other end of the deal after the random kablooey event. In my mind I imagine them as angry badgers.



Part of the problem is the Lindens don't enforce contracts, or whatever form of deal language, between residents. As it involves an arrangement between two residents the Lindens don't have to resolve the dispute.

It does not matter what the steps are taken in the creation and signing of the document nor where they get stored as ultimately it's all unenforceable as no one with actual authority (a Linden) is going to step in.

If the sim owner himself can't move parcels for $L 10,000 I'm not sure you'll have better luck.

It isn't fair, but it's not fair in the sort of way that life isn't fair.

Incidentally, 4096m standard prim land would go for less than $L 25k in my sims (if I had any available; I don't). And on an older class 4, less than $L 17k.

Expecting to get $L 40k for a 4096m parcel... five times in a row, and quick... I dunno, man.

I couldn't do it myself except in maybe my capital city and people lined up waiting to get in.

There's a lot of private estate land out there that people can't get rid of, even for $L 0. I'm not on anybody's side here, it's just how it is.

The reality of the situation kinda suggests that neither you or the sim owner can do anything about prevailing market conditions.

Holding him responsible for your getting $L 200,000 quickly with 1/3 of a private estate sim at $L10/meter... that seems like a lot to expect, to me.

This is why I would never "buy" a parcel on a private estate with a significant amount of up front lindens. You have no protection. Private estate parcels can sometimes be great deals as rentals, but frankly LL should never have allowed the "sale" of private parcels, since you don't really own them. You are at the mercy of a region owner that might decide to leave SL and shut down, or just decide to redo his land and yank it out from under you. And..you have NO RECOURSE.

You have some safety if you are dealing with the more well known larger corporate investors. Beyond that..too dangerous!

Right, and anyone who is knowledgable in these matters knows this. But, it does serve as some consolation for renters/land owners. Like locking doors. They do nothing but give renters/homeowners some virtual peace of mind. So, and you have to give some credit to my idea, it serves more as a handshake agreement. The owner giving you their word on their creditability, and the tenant is more confidant. Understand? I know it solves nothing, it does not make a legal binding agreement, but its good practice, no? It looks good for sim owners and harms no one.

I'd be surprised any renter would have a problem with it. Unless their brain is too small to comprehend the idea.

I don't know about any one else but I made some very expensive mistakes here while I was learning and had to cut my losses but it was a lesson I guess I had to learn.
And I am so greatful I never rented and spend thousands on land I couldn't possible really own.
At least buying directly from Lindens or on mainland as long as I am following the TOS and Linden doesn't go bankrupt I have virtual home.