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Another land question.....

Constance Sunnyside
Yours in SL
Join date: 23 Oct 2006
Posts: 43
12-14-2006 13:43
I bought my first land the same time a friend did so we are in the same region. She has 512m and a group that has donated 512m. So if we got together and I donted my 512m to her group then we could split the 351 prims and have 175.5 prims right?
Would this cause a rise in tier for her having a group with 3 512m plots? If the group is 4 members and there is 3 512m could we add one more and still not have a rise in tier?
I just hate only having 117 prims and would love to find a clever way to increase the prim count.
I guess it would only benefit me because right now she has 1024m and 234 prims so adding my land to the group would lower her prim count and raise mine. Or am I wrong?
Anna Gulaev
Registered User
Join date: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 154
12-14-2006 14:10
If you deed the land to the group it will be on your tier, so it will not increase her tier cost.

All the land within the same sim contributes to the total available prims, and it is used on a first-come basis. You can use all of the usused total, or if she gets to it first she can use all of it. There is no equal division.
Constance Sunnyside
Yours in SL
Join date: 23 Oct 2006
Posts: 43
While I am on the subject..
12-14-2006 14:13
If you do buy land as a group and then the group has a falling out what happens to your land that you donated? Does the group owner just get to keep it? What if the group does not want to divide up the land in case of a dispute? Do you just have to trust that they will be nice and buy you out? Can you sell land you donated to a group? Can you hold the deed to land you doante to a group and then take it back if you choose? How do you protect yourself and others when buying land as a group?
Wildefire Walcott
Heartbreaking
Join date: 8 Nov 2005
Posts: 2,156
12-14-2006 14:24
From: Constance Sunnyside
I bought my first land the same time a friend did so we are in the same region. She has 512m and a group that has donated 512m. So if we got together and I donted my 512m to her group then we could split the 351 prims and have 175.5 prims right?
Would this cause a rise in tier for her having a group with 3 512m plots? If the group is 4 members and there is 3 512m could we add one more and still not have a rise in tier?
I just hate only having 117 prims and would love to find a clever way to increase the prim count.
I guess it would only benefit me because right now she has 1024m and 234 prims so adding my land to the group would lower her prim count and raise mine. Or am I wrong?

Okay, it's the portion I've bolded above that has me confused. Let me explain how it works, and then you can clarify what's going on with this group:

Assuming that your friend donates her tier and deeds her 512 to the group, and the group already has another 512 deeded to it (presumably by someone else?), and you donate/deed your own 512 to the group, AND all three parcels are on the same sim, then yes, there will be 351 prims available to be used across all three parcels in the sim.

However, like I said, there has to be real land deeded to the group, and it all has to be in the same sim. I'm confused about what you said (the bolded stuff) because you don't indicate whether that's just tier someone donated or land as well, and whether there's another party involved who deeded.

Let me break a few things down, because I don't know how much you understand about land groups, etc.:
- When you deed land to a group, you generally still have to pay the tier for the land you donated, but you do not own the land. It belongs to the group, and you must buy it back from the group if you want to sell it personally (you can usually buy it back for $0, though depending on the situation).
- Your first 512 of land is tier-free. If you buy any more land, you begin taking a hit for land use fees/tier. If either you or your friend buy any more land on your own, you'll start paying tier, even if you end up donating it to the land group. Your donation = your land use fees.
- There's an interesting catch though. If you buy land FOR THE GROUP, the group gets an extra 10% bonus of free tier. For example, if the group owns 1024 square meters, you can purchase an additional 102 on behalf of the group without raising anyone's fees. I DON'T know whether this applies for donated tier, but I DO know that if you're wearing the group's title while you purchase the land and use the "Buy for Group" option instead of buying the land for yourself first, the bonus tier will be applied to cover that land.
- It used to be a matter of "group officers can do anything with land" but it's now a bit more complicated with the new group roles system. But essentially, in order to donate tier and to buy/sell land for the group, you need to belong to a group role that grants those abilities.
- The BIG one. If you ever decide you want to get rid of your land, you will have to sell the land back to yourself AND remove your tier contribution. It is possible to sell the land on behalf of the group, but when you do that- and depending on how the group roles are set up- the proceeds from the sale might get distributed across all group members, which is generally not the desired outcome. And until you delete your tier contribution from the group, you'll still be liable for land use fees, even if you don't own any more land or have any currently deeded to a group.
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Wildefire Walcott
Heartbreaking
Join date: 8 Nov 2005
Posts: 2,156
12-14-2006 14:29
From: Constance Sunnyside
If you do buy land as a group and then the group has a falling out what happens to your land that you donated? Does the group owner just get to keep it? What if the group does not want to divide up the land in case of a dispute? Do you just have to trust that they will be nice and buy you out? Can you sell land you donated to a group? Can you hold the deed to land you doante to a group and then take it back if you choose? How do you protect yourself and others when buying land as a group?

I answer this pretty much in what I just posted, but just want to emphasize that it's incredibly important to understand group roles. In fact, it's possible to have a group set up where only "officers" are allowed to buy/sell/donate group land, but if the land is sold, ALL group members will get an equal share of the proceeds. There are ways to mitigate this risk using group roles, but the safest way to get your investment back is to sell the land back to yourself for $0L.

One more thing. Say you backed out of the group, didn't care what happened to the land, but you DID remove your tier contribution. In that case, the group would need to either sell off the land or donate some more tier to support it- otherwise the land would be considered forfeit and be deeded to Governor Linden within 3 days.
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http://desperationisle.blogspot.com/

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http://desperationisle.com/

Desperation Isle Productions: Skyboxes for lots (and budgets) of all sizes!
Anna Gulaev
Registered User
Join date: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 154
12-14-2006 14:37
Take a look at the roles defined for the group. People in some roles will receive payment for land sales and some may not. Which roles receive payment and which do not is determined by how the roles are set up, and only the owner is guaranteed to be able to do that. The owner may grant those rights to other roles or she may not.

When you join the group you will be put in a role. If that role does not receive payment for the sale of land you will not receive payment, even if you contributed the land. Conceivably, even if your role is set up to receive payment at the time you join, a rogue owner or officer (if the officer role has been granted the power) can withdraw that from you at any time and sell the land. And if you do receive payment, be aware that you will only reveive your share. Payments are divided equally between all people who are to reveive payment. So, even if you receive payment you will likely only receive a portion of the sale price.

As for what happens when you want out rather than someone else selling the land from under you, Wildefire clearly knows more than I do.
Constance Sunnyside
Yours in SL
Join date: 23 Oct 2006
Posts: 43
Thank you!!!
12-15-2006 10:03
Group land seems a great way for everybody to get a larger place to live and work without having tier increases. I just wanted to make sure there are ways to protect everyone involved in the group. It is good to see it from all sides.