Robin's office hours - some answers, more questions

The transcript of the chat with Robin Linden (who revealed that she was actually behind the infamous blog post) has been posted at http://unitedprotest.mine.nu/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8#8

I'm not going to analyze the whole thing here. Let's just say that the whole situation is still as clear as mud, but they aren't targeting Gor or BDSM...yet. Well, maybe they will...they're not really sure about some of it. (The whole thing went like that.)

One thing that struck me as being very important, and about which I haven't seen any comments in other forums, is this statement from Robin near the end of the transcript:

----------
[11:53] Robin Linden: The more likely scenario, however, is that Residents will join together to create local regions where they agree on rules. In that case our role...

[11:54] Robin Linden: ...becomes more one of oversight. When the day comes that the group can host their own servers, then they can do whatever they want and answer directly to their local authorities.
----------

This seems to suggest a possiblity that I was thinking about last night (insomnia sucks!). Linden Labs is planning to eventually license their server platform to other companies. That would be the best possible scenario, as no one company would have to accept the financial risk and legal responsibility of allowing content and behavior that are illegal in some parts of the world. (If someone runs an illegal website on IIS, you don't sue Microsoft for providing the software - no matter how much you might like to do so. ) It also allows for different registration standards, more privacy (if that's desired), and so on.

I was having some serious doubts about SL's future if it wasn't going to support the same freedoms as you have on the rest of the internet. This kind of arrangement seems like the best deal for everybody, LL included. This means that SL really *could* be the future of the internet.

Robin's inability to grasp Sarah Nerd's point here is something I find pretty disturbing, given how much this particular scenario has come up in discussions over the past month:

[11:11] Robin Linden: Sarah Nerd: I have a lot of issues with a reporter trying to create a story and setting up scenerios in a venue of mine, Will my account and venue be at risk when others misuse it against my own rules?
[11:12] Robin Linden: Sarah - if someone is doing something on your land that you don't like, please tell them to stop, or ban them if they won't
[11:12] Nobody Fugazi: Robin - someone can't be online all the time to watch what happens on their land.
[11:12] Bella Wilberg: but its been made clear that land owners will be responsible for what goes on, on their land
[11:13] Robin Linden: If they ban an individual from their land then there shouldn't be a problem with unwelcome content, even when they aren't online

What a ridiculous thing to say. None of us are on SL 24/7. We cannot be aware of avatars we've never met indulging in forbidden activities on our land when we are not online.

If Robin doesn't budge from this stance, then the only sure way to prevent your account being deleted and assets seized (due to the activities of others) is to ban ALL avatars from your land whenever you log off.

This doesn't bode well for those organisations doing good deeds for newbies like New Citizens Plaza, where nakedness and acts of grief occur now and then because they appear to be a rite of passage for some new arrivals.

Thank you for hosting that transcript. I personally find it impossible to attend any large gathering in SL, or to follow conversations when 15 or more people are all speaking at once in Chat. Transcripts like that one are the only way I can 'hear" what is said in such meetings.

It's no secret that they plan on open sourcing the server side of SL in which case LL won't be the only ones with servers on the grid.

There are MANY private islands with their own security and rules for visitors/residents to abide by or be banned or lose their land...since the sim owner still owns the land but essentially rents it out. This was going on when I started in late 2005 as far as I could tell.

If Sarah Nerd is concerned about conduct happening on her land then she should set up such rules and have admins setup that will most likely be online at all times.

It's also not like LL just clicks "yes" or "no" on an AR in the "ban and seize all assets" column. If it's something that serious they will take a lot into consideration. I've seen it before.

The transcript is being hosted by a group called "United Protest". I hadn't heard about them before today, but I joined up as soon as I heard about it.

I think Robin talked in a perfect 360 degree circle there. I guess you will have to ban everyone everytime you log off. Seems the only way using her logic.

I dont think they will target gorean or BDSM ever or anything that would classify as "legal pron" under the standard defintions etc. I think they are trying to deal with things that are not even condoned in the porn industry such as child rape and wife beating etc. This kind of thing there is a black market for.

(How do i know this garbage? Dont throw rotten food please but the first 5 years of my internet career I spent building back ends and designing sites for a large porn company during the internet boom.... )

Anyhow so it appears to me honestly that they are trying to deal with the hanous stuff that is considered illegal and in fact a criminal offense. Legal images made with adults blah blahblah I doubt that they will ever target. If they do then I will be again very puzzled hehe because its a part of the internet and since SL is promoting itself as the 3D version of the internet this stuff exists and is legal and has an audience etc.

Anyhow

*points*

I'm going back to my crayons and waiting for the next person coming to my PG area to call me a prude

Yeah, Goreans and a lot of BDSM cats have been around for years and have no doubt come into contact with LL's Police arm plenty of times in the past and they're still there.

The ageplay/rape RP situation has only come to light in the last year.

Now, there may be certain aspects of Gor and BDSM that will have to change but overall I think they'll be safe.

but, don't you need to have a pose ball to actually pretend to have pixel sex? i have my property set to return items after 2 minutes. i suppose if they do a quickie, i can't control it. i have banned people who either walk around naked or bother me and my friends/customers in a way that appears that they are 'coming on' to someone... you know, asking your age over and over, or other bizarre chit-chatty nonsense.

we could post a list somewhere of avatars to watch out for, or ban. if someone has chosen a name that should not be on the list (because they are evil and hateful), we'd just have to work that out as it went along.

if everyone works together to solve these issues and keep LL out as much as possible, it really will be membership operated.

am i making sense? or is this a ridiculous idea? begin shooting holes now.

That's actually something they're working on making...basically being able to share ban lists.

From how I understand it it works like this...If we both have similar shops or facilities on our land and wanted to, we could merge our ban lists so that anyone I ban on my land you automatically have banned on your land and vice versa. There's obviously more to it than that but it's the basic idea of it, anyway.

As long as it's voluntary and you had the ability to take someone off your list that is on the other guys' for whatever reason then I'd be all for it, myself!

it is also possible to view the banned list of any property you frequent. however, before duplicating, it might be necessary to ask the land owner... people ban for different reasons.

let's just get one started, and someone responsible can take it from there. http://secondlife.informe.com/viewforum.php?f=2

Somewhat.

But if people are banning via the region/estate menu only estate managers of that particular island can see it.

then we'll have to rely on each other.

sounds like alot of talking in circles and lying to ignore the fact that something has indeed changed.

To keep saying over and over that this is a "reminder of existing policy" while in the same breath talking about how ageplay can no longer be tolerated, it's just insulting.

What I got from this is, we will do anything we have to do to stay out of the public ire, and you are all on your own. Of course, I already knew that.

One thing you can count on about companies is they DO NOT care whatsoever about what the user base WANTS. They care about numbers, money, buisness. That is ALL they care about or ever will care about.

That fact is the reason we had such a total lack of restraint in the first place, to keep the sign ups coming. It is the reason we have this knee jerk attack now, to keep the detractors at bay, keep things going, keep being profitable, avoid lawsuits.

Something I learned after 3+ years of arguing protesting and fighting with Sony Online Entertainment before they utterly destroyed SWG. Is that unfortunately having any say or effect is only an illusion. They are in control and will do whatever they have to or feel they have to. This means when the time comes, BDSM, furries, Gor, Zoophiles, will all be burned at the stake, and they will be happily by linden lab if it is good for buisness.

It may be sad to say it but it's what I beleive.

~edit~
That all being said. It's better to burn out than to fade away. So what the hell I will protest stupidity and ignorance till the end just like everyone else.

it's only going to get worse with voice chat. i dont' see the point of pixel sex at all, but accompanied with written chat, it might have some draw similiar to a nasty chat room. put voice chat into the mix, and that'll be equivalent to FREE 1-900-SEX-CALL or something.

i think that's why the pornies are fighting back so hard about these new 'so called' regulations. they know $$$ is coming, and they want a bigger piece of the action!