Forum access for no-pay-info post August 20 start date users

Based on the wording of a message that can appear when you select the link to go the forums, and on comments I have seen inworld, I concluded that there is no forum access for for users that started after August 20 without payment info on file.

The message is:


As I read that message, only those that satisfy both requirements can access the forums.

Am I misinterpreting this? I asked about this in the Linden answers column but didn't have the message quoted in my post until after Robin responded. Does the message appear for everyone trying to access the forums without any login info bearing cookies being stored?

Does anyone hear of post Aug 20 startup date no-payment-info-on-file people being unable to access the forums?

Dearly Darling,

My Friend Murasaki Suisei can't so I'm assuming that no payment on file means no access to the forum. Humm..I guess I should ask her if she's able to get the offical blog.

I've been sending people messages for her and so far that seems to be working out fine. If you don't have friends In-world at the time that could be very inconvienient.

We are RL next door neighbors so that won't be an issue for her.

Ever Yours,

Mrs. Showdog Tiger

Several of our extended family group are no payment on file people. They can get to everything except the forums.

I don't know why they'd restrict the forums, it's not like they can crash the grid though them or anything. Is there? That'd suck if they could.

But seriously, I wouldn't know, since both me and my husband joined before they even had the free accounts. I'll ask another friend of mine when I get on to see if she can.

I agree wholeheartedly with this policy. I can see the damage that can be done on the forums by people whose payment information is not verifiied.

I too agree with this policy. Sure they wouldn't be able to grid crash, but if you could make as many alts as you wanted, you could come here and grief other players relentlessy, over and over and over, causing a lot more man hours to deal with just deleting posts.

LOL.. like the regular trolls don't alredy do that.

I think they should have access to the forums. Beginners need them more than anyone as another place of learning.

Robin's answer to my post in Linden Answers:
suggests that they don't think the message appears for everyone that started after August 20th. The contents of the message seems to me to be a flat declaration of no-payment-info, no forum access. Possibly the message is poorly worded. If this message is appearing and forum access is being denied when it shouldn't, there is nothing in the message's wording to suggest to those affected that there is a bug, they'd have no reason, based solely on the message, to think anything other than that they aren't supposed to have access to the forums.

As an example, someone asked me tonight in a sandbox how to make a poseball, I suggested, among other things, checking the forums.

He responded that he can't access the forums.

I asked why not. He responded, "I didn't provide credit info."

So I suggested he write [email]robin@lindenlab.com[/email] and ask about the forum access matter.

If LL really doesn't want to pay for moderating and storing the posts of people who don't pay them anything, they could at least provide read access to the huge amount of useful info in the forums. If it's a bug, it's a bug with a real serious consequence that greatly decreases the affected folk's ability to enjoy and or profit from Second Life.

Well, I joined post-August 20th with a free account. I had no access to the forums. As soon as I upgraded to a premium account I did. So, whether it was intended or not it would seem that no payment info = no forum access.

I think I can answer that one to a certain extent having listened to Gov Lindens's pod from the last Town Hall meeting.

Lewis Nerd asked a similar question to Gov Linden insomuch as why did Linden disable some forums, the main one being Land and Economy.

The answer to that was it appears that as we are posting on a Linden site, the posts have to be read by Linden staff members. Those of us who used the Land and Economy (and others) will perhaps agree there was a degree of trolling.

I can understand the nature of the monitoring work involved. Personally I would prefer Linden staff to focus on ways to grow the business, rather than having to monitor aggressive posts.

So restricting access to those of us who have demonstrated some type of financial commitment to the SL platform by providing payment information makes sense to me.

Finally having read this forums sticky it does seem to me there is nothing to prevent reasoned debate about any SL issue (I stress the word "reasoned" After all the economy issue is a very important part of the SL experience. Without the big land owners and content creators (some of which are here for some real life financial return) the SL world would be very different today from what it appears to be developing into, that is a fairly healthy vibrant economy.

Just my personal views

Why not give these (post August 20th no payment info) folks access to read, but not post? It seems as though it's unfair not even to let them use the forum to search for information.

Almost all forum software allows for read/no post functionality.

I can see a small amount of reason for not allowing access for an account that has never logged in. But not much. The only real reson might be to prevent people from making accounts just to troll with them. But those accounts can be banned just as easily as one that has payment information. So it is a bogus argument

I see no reason at all to deny access for an account that has logged in at least once to SL, as this is supposed to be the place to turn to for decent help if you don't understand SL.

I was thinking the same thing... they would be able read and search for info, but not post/harass/grief.

But opening the flood gates for no verifies creates ALOT more alt trolls than verified trolls. Sure, the same process for both, but leaving a forum open to anyone and everyone (if anyone has ever allowed all postings from any of their boards) leads to alot of man hours, especially banning alts of the same people over and over.

I do agree with the read only function though.

I agree with this as well.

My sister is having this problem as well. We haven't gotten her computer set up on the Lan here yet, so it's not a big issue.. and she can always view the forums on my computer (and post with my account as far as I care).. but she's really leery about putting any payment info on teh account, cause she's afraid she'll start uncontrollably buying lindens.. and with the whole database scare recently, well I'm not sure she trusts LL with even her paypal info.

In my opinion, this is REALLY stupid.. The forums are hosted at SecondLife.com, they are referred to by THOUSANDS of residents in worl, every day.. "Check the forums" is the most common thing you're told when you want scripting help. To find out that "free account holders" who elect not to spend money on a videogame... can't even AT LEAST search the forum for answers, tech support, etc.. that seems really lame to me, and kind of offensive.

Lindens, you know I'm generally supportive of the decisions you make, even when I disagree with them, but I cannot support you in this case. Access to educational information should never be restricted, ever. These forums are a crucial resource to countless new (and old) residents. No one should be kept out until and unless they've actually done something wrong.

I know you never make decisions lightly, and that everything you do has sound reasoning behind it. However, sound reasoning does not always add up to doing the right thing. Blanketly keeping unverified people out of the forums, even inadvertently, is wrong, and the practice must end immediately, for all our sakes. Please allow me tell you why.

First, having this restriction in place is paramount to curing a disease by killing the patient. You're basically punishing all the legitimate newbies who really do need the information here, just make the police work of keeping out the trouble makers easier. Not only is that's fundamentally unfair, but it could have dire consequences. I'll explain.

As Phillip likes to refer to SL as a country, often comparing LL's economic policies with those of various real world governments, let me offer a comparison of my own here. By barring forum access for unverified accounts, you're managing the forums with some of the same mindset in which the US has (mis)managed Iraq. Just as that country without proper rule of law has become a breeding ground for a new generation of terrorists, SL without the proper amount of freedom of information can become a breeding ground for new griefers.

Think about the newly arrived resident who spends his first few days wandering around, wide eyed, as we all did, pondering that inevitible question, "What is there to do here?" Perhaps this person is not one who's comfortable with real time conversation, and his instinct is to look to a forum-style venue for answers. He tries to log on to the forums, only to find his way blocked, so he goes back to wandering and wondering, maybe even now slightly bitter and frustrated in addition to just plain bored.

His mind goes to work, looking for a way to alleviate the boredom he feels since he's got nothing to do, and however unknowingly, to justify further whatever small feelings of having been slighted he may have. It's not much of a leap from there for that person to conclude that there's nothing fun here, and that all these people who are into it must be some ultra-exclusive club of which he is not a member. To him, SL'ers become a "them" instead of an "us", and it's all too easy for people to grow to hate a "them".

Resentment building, our young friend happens across a cache of freebie items, one of which is entitled "Super Duper Devestational Gun of Thermo Nuclear Annihilation". That little gem is just too priceless not to try out. So, he heads for the nearest collection of green mini-map dots, and unloads. Chaos insues, insults are exchanged, abuse reports fly, and our friend soon finds himself suspended or banned.

When all is said and done, several people have had their peaceful day of fun interrupted, Linden Lab and every other business in SL have just lost a customer, and the community as a whole has lost a person who could have been a productive member for years to come, all because one poor soul couldn't find the answer he was looking for in the only way he knew to look for it.

Now imagine if that person had actually gotten to ask his question, "What is there to do here," on the forums. He likely would have gotten dozens if not hundreds of suggestions, as have nearly all who have asked that question in the past. Or perhaps he wouldnt even have had to ask, as reading through the various posts on how to do this or that would be a source of suggestion in and of itself. Either way, positive inspiration could have started flowing, the lightbulb could have snapped on in his head, and he just might have come up with the next brilliant idea to add to our world.

Am I trying to say that the forums will turn every potential griefer into a great resident, or that every newbie who's denied access will become a griefer? Of course not. What I am saying is that people are inherently comfortable learning in different ways, and to restrict easy access to an informational resource such as we have here on these forums is never a good idea.

People deserve to be able to learn and communicate in their own way. Isn't that what SL is supposed to be all about, afterall?

Please turn off the restrictions and allow all residents, verified or not, to access the forums. If you need to penalize certain individuals who have done wrong, by all means do so, but do not punish all for the sins of a few. Let the information flow. To do anything less is simply beneath you.

Thanks for reading, Lindens. I hope you'll take what I've said to heart.

Suggestion

No-payment-on-file accounts are given read access to the forums.

After 30 days (or 100 hours of time in game?) the user may be granted access to post to the forums.

This puts the neccessary throttle on people who would just generate an unverified account for purposes of getting around a forum ban. Of course.. forum bans for repeat offenders should probably be based on IP addresses in this world of "unverified alts".. of course that means if my sister were to get banned, I would too.. but that's life I guess.

I've got another suggestion. Supposedly, LL has invested efforts into being able to identify individual PC's through SL, right? They did say that that was part of their anti-griefer efforts, right?

Well, then there's a really easy solution to the forum issue. Simply require every person to log into SL at least once before using the forums. When they log in, let the system's magic mojo kung fu do its work to identify the individual, match him up with his alts, and then relay that info straight to the forum database. If someone's been banned from the forums, then the new alt account gets automatically banned as well, no harm, no foul.

Seems simple enough to me. Now, can we please stop punishing the innocent?

Unfortunately, they haven't come even close to implementing that, or we wouldn't have ungodly griefer alt accounts still.