Huge Prims, Parcel Encroachment, etc.

Somebody has bought land and is putting GR's (infamous ) HUGE prims up in a sim where me, my partner, and various friends have land. They encroach upon protected land (road and water), and he's even concealed an advertising plot in its entirety. Do I hear applause? Believe me, I never thought I'd see the day when I preferred the ads. Based on the layout, it appears this guy is well aware of his boundaries, but has decided to take his chances anyway.

He's told my friend they're an "experiment in inflation", which seems like nonsence because if they're the huge prims we've played with in the past, they cannot be resized at all.

There's a lot of conflicting information regards how LL will deal with huge prims when they come across them, but I wonder if any residents have actual experience of getting them removed?

If they are outside his land, or causing a problem to the sim, they will be removed. File a complain in the Land Forum to have them inspected.

I have posted the comments from Cory from the blog post at:

http://blog.secondlife.com/2006/12/20/town-hall-with-cory-introductory-transcript/#more-628

And I quote,

"Question & Answers
[14:47] Jeska Linden: Teravus Ousley: The Super-Monsterous prim .. that are larger then 10×10x10 - Some the size of a sim and larger. What is the current action if a Linden comes across one of these prim (that isn’t affecting someone else’s land. Do you leave it, delete it, etc..
[14:47] Jeska Linden: Don’t forget everyone - join the group “Linden TOwn Hall Questions” to ask your question.
[14:48] Cory Linden: that’s not really a technical question, so I think the policy is to return them if a nuisance
[14:48] Cory Linden: next

(Unrelated few minutes snipped)

[14:55] Cory Linden: oh, a follow up on megaprims: we are going to allow them on private estates as well."

END QUOTE

Hope this snippet helps and i to would put a post in Land Management as there is parcel encroachment and ask Guy to take a look

HTH

"experiment in inflation".

I would guess he's referring to inflating land prices, not inflating the prim.

Corey basicly said what one would expect, the Giant prims would be removable If they encroached on Others Land, or Caused Lag, or Crashes. This would fit her description of "so I think the policy is to return them if a nuisance". She also stated that they would be allowable on Private estates. Meaning, If you own the whole Sim, what you put there is your own Business, and if it Crashes your Sim, it's your own problem.

Makes sense.

I already know the Lindens will act upon them if people put them on Linden Land, Sandboxes, or Land Other than thier own, so Corey didn't really say anything Unexpected or Contreversial.

Angel.

But, has anyone ever heard of the Lindens removing mutually encroaching prims or land modifications? Like my tree overhangs your land, but your tree overhangs mine?

Granted, this is not the giant object thingy mentioned above. I just wondered.

It's a tad subjective there. I have seen lindens clean up things that were obviously NOT suppossed to be somewhere...but if your neighbor put up the tree and you had your sremoved by your neighbor...they might not remove it erroring on caution.

Yes. When I was living in Sonamu, I had a jackass come by and completely enclose a 512 holding a vendor belonging to my partner. A Linden came out at my request in Live Help, tsk'd, and removed it.

Of course, that was a few months ago. Who knows, now?

Thanks for all the replies guys. After realising that other residents are outraged, but apparently not angry enough to speak up themselves, I've decided to just bail. I'll sell the land cheap, downgrade my account (it's the last mainland parcel I had) and get a similar sized plot on a private sim. The plot is only small anyway, and was a private getaway of sorts for me and my other half, but it's not worth falling out with people over by filing abuse reports and getting prims removed from their own land. People with parcels up for sale are claiming their land is more difficult to sell, but that's not my problem. Another friend I made in the sim is upset because her view on this beautiful peninsual has been ruined. Well that's the mainland for you thesedays...and I'm not gonna be everybody's fall guy.

Regarding large prims, somebody just asked in LA why they're unacceptable. Well, apart from the obvious scope for vandalism (it really does only take one of these things to destroy a beautiful view and reduce your land value), parcel encroachment is a really serious concern. Yesterday for example, somebody put a 65535 x 65535 x 0.01 prim at 500m across four sims (including the parcel of land of mine that I've discussed here), and because its x,y,z location was a tiny sandbox in one of those sims it wouldn't be removed for twelve hours. When you consider that ARs don't get acted on for days or weeks, and it's so hard to get hold of a Linden thesedays (understandable) -- that prim will absolutely remain there for the duration, and if you are one of the many parcel owners whose skybox is skewered and rendered useless in the meantime -- well that's just tough!

I can understand the case for 16m prims, but anything larger than that has too much griefing potential IMO.

If an AR is filed, yes. If an AR isn't filed, they aren't really going to notice, after all, how are they to know if you two are mutually consenting to the overlap?

About the mega prims, I just wish like heck they'd make regular prims scalable up to 20X20X20. That would help most of us.

But the place where the mega prims are the most annoying? Sandboxes, especially Linden Sandboxes, where someone will dump a sim sized one and then leave it.

actually I have seen a huge prim put to good use. If any of you have seen the articles or have been to the IBM islands they have three huge meeting tents/halls. Each with a huge mega prim roof. This roof was not possible using current SL means quickly as those large prim building tools (like ring maker) had issues with sim crossings and moving that many prims across boarders was becoming a chore, etc. The mega prim though solved all that in like two seconds.

On the other hand 95% of the time there is no need for a mega prim in the main land. I can see larger prims being useful for houses and such and wish LL would speak on if they are going to do this again or not but guess we need to just wait and see.

I agree Krazzora. I can recall many times when I'd have loved the quick solution they could provide. As you say though, 95% of the time, there's no need for them on the mainland and half the time it seems to me they're a builder's idea of a **** extension.

With regards the 65535 x 65535 x 0.01 prims mentioned above, Matthew Linden deleted one of these for me this afternoon after it was placed right through my skybox. (I moved the skybox but don't think I should have to do this to suit idiots in a sandbox in an adjacent sim.) Minutes after Matthew deleted it, another one appeared and skewered skyboxes belonging to two other residents ...and who knows how many more outside my 512m draw distance...and in three other sims?

I've since been contacted by the guy with the huge encroaching prims also. He does seem friendly and cooperative...and has made an attempt to make them less imposing from the ground, and although I'm not a fan of huge prims, they're at least on his own parcel now. Other residents can take up any visibility/land value concerns with him. I'm not their spokesman.

Dillon Morenz

I think you just summed up my theory on this. "It's on thier land". If you own a full mainland sim (no LL or protected land) and rez a 256 meter prim go for it. The only reason it should be removed then is if LL determines it can crash the sim (which they have no conclusive info on). I think alrger prims WOULD be a good thing as even now people violate others space. I mean don't get me wrong if the encrotchment is allowed then that's fine (AKA if the center of the prim is in your land and not causing a distrubance.). I am currently doing this accidently with Linden Land I think at water level but the lean over is less then .5 meters (though if no linked would definatly be returned). Also I built a sky box where again dispite my best efforts to avoid lean into neightbors land it happened by like .2 meters. Again though it is a sky box and I have it like 700 meters in air and they are on ground level.

Now if I was to rez say a ten meter box and lean over 4.990 meters....I would expect a few complaints, a linden, nasty mail bombs, etc. Course I hate doing that cause I like my music...not the country music my neighbors play. >_<

Besides if on your own land LL hates doing anything about anything. Even if it's obviously some sort of annoyance. In the neighboring sim this one guy has shiny metalized textures animated and th eprims spinning with large sex signs about some book repeated 20 times and about 5 lands of ads (think those are another owner). I feel like I am on my way to that tourist trap "South of the Boarder" more then in SL when I see it...I just shudder at it and turn down my draw distance. Oh and this guy has about 2 or 3 other similar "Book advertising places" all over SL.

As the original source of inspiration for this thread, I'm taking this grid downtime to speak for myself. I've been following this thread since 20061224 with varying degrees of annoyance to find my IM"s quoted and discussed, particularly as an outgrowth of two single-line IM's sent to me while offline; most significantly because the discussion here holds so much more passion than the coy responses IM'ed to me directly.

I have been building in Gualala since late October, about six weeks before Dillon et al. bought their land. My work is simple, even banal by SL artistic standards as I merely assemble scale models of urban structures mapped with geospatial technologies. I'm using 20x20 tiles for base maps that must be generated with another system and rendered as textures. These tiles let me craft one-fourth the number of map pages--saving development effort and upload charges. I am building at 1/3-scale to save land and tier costs.

I've used large prims to simplify a skybox hangar for my airplane, and I've placed a large globe above my spaces, about 4800 m2 in three parcels split by one canal and one road in SEly Gualala. Yes, it's 40 meter diameter globe, but I wish I had a 20 to use instead---for now, I don't. None of these prims cross a region boundary, and the curved surfaces and vertical tiles are all phantomed. None are physical features. At slgis.org, mapping is what we do both professionally and in SL.

In the process of consolidating one of the parcels, I've had interactions with a half-dozen adjacent land owners, buying, trading, or otherwise working out accomodations. In every case, I've interacted with these people on the basis of their status as my landholding neighbors, and I've looked at my site from their perspective without fail.

What has been different in my interactions with Dillon and the original poster of an IM complaint was that I've been asked to accept their aesthetics de facto. I've had to track down the location of Dillon's parcel myself to get a better idea of where he was coming from. In the process, I learned more about his SL work and also gained an appreciation for his development work.

But for an issue that is nominally billed as oversize prims, Dillon has complained here about unrelated matters such as driveways built from parcel to road, boxes entombing CF's Mr. Lee's Greater Hong Kong 16m2 parcels of extortion, all built with standard prims. Dillon has also inferred that an owner is unhappy with changes in view from a formerly beautiful peninusla; I'm aware of at least one such instance where the source of that displeasure is a towering gallery recently built, and my project is not that issue. Most definitely we have nothing to do with the region-covering layer of smog that appeared over Gualala yesterday.

Readers of this thread should be aware that the site of this original controversy, Gualala 150,20 is a project of slgis.org, as in Second Life Geographic Information Systems. We are a group of technology professionals with a fairly close coupling between our RL professional work and this SL project. Next semester, we may have student projects being built in this region.

Our parcel acquisitions in Gualala have cost over 10 times what Dillon spent on his parcel in this region. In the course of these acquisitions we Californians have been promptly responsive to neighbors from US, NL, AU, NZ, JP, and CH. It's been a long, highly interactive process, and our actions have been far more considerate than this thread has implied in places.

Going forward, I hope that slgis.org will be able to add UK to the list of neighbors to whom we've adequately responded, and that Dillon will find a pleasant altitude for their skybox and see how things evolve in Gualala over the next few weeks.