attachment positioning relative to body...

i will apologize in advance if this is a total noob question, but here it is:

i guess i am having difficulty positioning attachments such as jewelry relative to the body.
as the "natural" body animations such as "breathing" happen, the attachments, that previously were properly positioned, disappear into the body or float in space. the clearest example would be something like a nipple ring where the "nipple" position moves relative to the position of the nipple on the skin texture and the "shell" of the skin moves relative to the ring which seems fixed in some avatar coordinate frame.

is it possible to actually position attachments on the mesh that makes up the body surface? it just seems that the mesh is moving relative to the avatar coordinate frame, but the attachment is positioned in this "fixed" avatar coordinate frame...

is the only way to fix this through scripting?

any insight would be much appreciated

thanks in advance,

maaatteo

To keep something moving with the breathing, it must be attached to the chest whether it's a pair of nipple rings, a badge, or whatever.

Most try to attach things to the left or right pectoral and yes, attachments on those points will disappear into the chest at times and in certain poses.

I would expect a well designed nipple ring to come in three versions: Left only, Right only, and paired with each attaching to the chest and modifiable for positioning.

amras,

thanks for the response. attaching to the pectoral is indeed what i have tried...

i guess in large part my question is motivated by trying to understand a little more about how the avatar model is set up.

it would seem that positioning attachments in a "fixed" avatar coordinate frame which the body mesh moves relative to is bound to create the kinds of problems i am experiencing (e.g., attachments disappearing inside the body).

do you have any insight as to whether it is possible to position things directly on mesh that makes up the surface of the body?

thanks again,

matteo

the avatar mesh is what the skin is on, so when you attach something to your chest,it is basically attached to your mesh and will move with the mesh.

In certain poses and movements, the avatar mesh will "fold" over itself and sometimes hide attachments that were attached to that local area.


I have only seen a few areas that have trouble with attachment "tracking"...one of them being jewelry on a persons fingers.

BTW, you can view your avatar mesh by going into the advanced drop down tab and selecting to view mesh (I'm not sure of the exact commend and I am at work now so I can't pop in to check...but its there)
It will show everything on screen in mesh with all textures removed.

markubis,

thanks for the suggestion... (the wireframe option has the shortcut Ctrl-Shift-R)
btw, trying this out suggests that the actual behavior is not quite what you describe.
the skin wireframe definitely moves relative to the attachment.
from just watching the animation briefly it almost seemed that the attachment was anchored at one end at a point that was, in my case, somewhere inside my avatars body...
as the wireframe moved the attachment did not follow all the movement... it almost seemed to move only a fraction of the wireframe movement (kind of like a rotation but at a smaller radius....).

so i guess perhaps, my question should be, is it possible to specify which point in the attachment is fixed and specifically to which point in the avatar (or better yet on the avatar wireframe)?

thanks again,

matteo

Objects can be attached quite nicely provided they are attached to a suitable attachment point. Right-clicking and editing allows you to move or rotate the bracelet, hat or whatever.

Things do get a bit out of line with some movements, though - there's no way round that one. Attachments don't actually lock to the mesh, but to some sort of central point of the stomach, lower left arm, skull or whatever part you attach it to. For instance, if you put a belt attachment on and then make yourself fatter, the belt will disappear inside you!

geez, it sounds like I'd need to see that animation to see what is going on there.

And from what you just wrote "which point in the attachment is fixed" tells me that your attachment is rather large or not the standard "nipple ring" ...am I correct?

Attachments are attached according to the main object in the linked set of prims. If you try to edit your linked object, you will see all of the prims, except one, are blue I believe...and the main (or root prim) is yellow. The center point of the root prim is where the attachment to your avatar goes.
If you have mod rights to the object then you can edit it and switch the root prim to another prim that makes more sense to you.

Or you can attach the object to your body and then edit and move the entire object to the point where it should be. but if its something large or funky, that may not work.

Not sure if this last bit will help you because you are saying that the animation is making your avatar do some strange motions

The only attachment point that tracks accurately to chest movement is Chest. It is, unfortunately, also the only place that positions accurately for the neck.

The pectorals move with breathing and with shoulder movement, and are best as places to attach shoulder armor. They also work to some degree as a place to attach individual wings.

Spine works well for wings that use a single attachment point.

Stomach and Pelvis work best for prim skirts and for tails. Pelvis is the most common for prim skirts.

The hips only work well for something to attach a pouch or purse to.

There are NO decent attachment points for rings or for prim fingernails. The hand attachment point can be used, but finger movement is semi-random, and 4 out of 5 poses the rings or nails/claws won't line up with the fingers.

I am not an animator but know animation deals with rotatable "joints" which are connected to "bones." When you attach something to your avatar, your connecting to "bones." To learn more, visit the "Animation Tips" forum in the Content Creation section of these forums.

Central to all avatar movement and the base of all animations is the pelvis, which is perhaps one reason it is such a popular (rock-solid) attachment point for things like prim skirts, prim genetalia, horses, etc..

The mesh is indeed where skin textures are mapped but those mesh nodes viewable in wireframe mode are not available as attachment points. When you wear standard clothing (as opposed to prim clothing) it virtually replaces parts of the skin; one exception is the skirt, which has its own peculiar and additional mesh layer it seems.

IMPORTANT (OT) NOTE : A posing stand is more than just a way to make your avatar stand still---which happens anyhow when you seize an avatar prim attachment.

When you are manipulating an attachment's positioning, I strongly recommend use of a pose stand, because (unless you later rotate it) it will align your avatar with the cardinal compass points of the grid.

I also recommend using a pose stand similar to the one included with the Mysti Tool because it will always rezz initially in grid alignment unlike those fancy ones that come with clothes and jewelry which, if rotated and returned to inventory, will be askew next rezz unless and until you rotate them back (which you can do using the rotation grid).

Without that above alignment, you will find yourself editing attachment positions both with difficulty and little success.

Seconded - always stand on a Pose Stand when trying to fix attachments, it keeps your Avatar still and is easier to zoom/focus on the attachment.

The Mysti-tool, if you don't have one, is *very* useful - one of the "must-haves" on a recent Forum Poll of top 10 things IIRC. You can get a freebie one which has many of the useful features, or the full-blown one is only around 380L$. To find it, search for "Mysti tool" in the *Places* search, I think that finds it (not in-world right now so I can't remember).