How many prims does a sim hold?
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Lexii Lane
Registered User
Join date: 1 Apr 2007
Posts: 6
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12-30-2007 20:20
Hello,
I am working on this large project, and am uncertain the prim count it will need when its finished... I was wondering whats the max prim count you can get for your money?
I plan on buying a sim soon, and have heard the max prim alotment is 15000... Is there another package that ups that count at all? Thanks for your help in answering this for me.
-Lexii
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Xplorer Cannoli
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Join date: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,131
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12-30-2007 20:24
Mainland is always 15,000 prims per region.
Estate land can choose how many prims each parcel gets by adjusting the entire sim.
Another form of Estate land are low prim regions, which I believe is 1875 prims per region.
A region is 65,536 square meters.
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Raymond Figtree
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Join date: 17 May 2006
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12-30-2007 20:24
Nope. The most you can get is 15,000 per sim.
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Alicia Sautereau
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Join date: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 3,125
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12-30-2007 20:47
i`ll quote myself from an old post as all sims are 15000 and how the prim bonus works to make it look like a sim can hold more then 15000 From: Alicia Sautereau there is alot of confusion about the prim bonus that most residents and alot of owners don`t understand the KB is as vague about it aswell so i`ll try to put it in a simple nutshell  prim bonus is an easy way to increase individual parcel prim count (edit befor being lynched  ) individual as in stand alone plots (small/large/joined split etc), prim bonus is sim wide and can NOT be set to individual plots 4096sqm - 937 prims prim bonus of 1.1 4096 - 1030 prims so how does it work and where do those prims come from??? region has a fixed amount of prims, 15000 giving a prim bonus of 1.1 would put the sim at 16500 as sims can`t have more then 15000, 1500 prims need to be "reserved" "reserving" prims is pritty simple, the amount of prims the bonus gives on the total region prim count MUST be "reserved" by an equal sized plot wich would support 1500 prims at the NORMAL 1.0 bonus count so to have a prim bonus of 1.1, the sim owner has to keep 6553sqm of land EMPTY(or 1500 prims unused) so these prims can be "used" on other parcels IF there is no land kept free for this prim "reserve" and all parcels will be used, there is a chance the region will be full (15000 used prims) but under land objects it will still show you haven`t used all prims these "reserve" plots can be any where on the island, it can be used on larger sized plots so things can be placed on it while keeping an eye out on prim usage (total - reserved = free) as it`s all about non used prims "some where" prim bonus of 2.0 means that half the island must be empty so those prims can be used on the other half wich is used but with twice the normal allowed prims prim bonus works if u want to have open areas like water and don`t want/allow people to build on it but still use the sim to the max downside is that everything gets more expensive with the same amount of land as you pay "extra" for the prim bonus wich render other pieces of land useless hope this clears up abit what`s up with the prim bonus deal |
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Alliez Mysterio
Registered User
Join date: 22 Apr 2004
Posts: 230
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12-30-2007 22:47
Full sims are 15,000 prims and Open Sims each have 1875 Prims |
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Lexii Lane
Registered User
Join date: 1 Apr 2007
Posts: 6
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12-31-2007 03:18
Thanks for the help everyone... And the prim bonus might be a possibility for me... I could probably use that!
Does LL plan on increasing the prim alotment anytime in the near Future?
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Raymond Figtree
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Join date: 17 May 2006
Posts: 6,256
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12-31-2007 03:27
From: Lexii Lane
Does LL plan on increasing the prim alotment anytime in the near Future?
We have no way of knowing, but it's very unlikely.
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Hiro Queso
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Join date: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 2,753
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12-31-2007 03:53
From: Lexii Lane Thanks for the help everyone... And the prim bonus might be a possibility for me... I could probably use that!
Does LL plan on increasing the prim alotment anytime in the near Future? Who knows, but I doubt it. More prims in a sim = more bandwidth for each user to render them (+ lower client side FPS), and therefore more of a hit on the sim, too. Until the day we have an uber smooth running SL within a sim loaded up with avatars, I can't see any sense in increasing the limit. |
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Felix Oxide
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Join date: 6 Oct 2006
Posts: 655
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12-31-2007 04:14
From: Hiro Queso Who knows, but I doubt it. More prims in a sim = more bandwidth for each user to render them (+ lower client side FPS), and therefore more of a hit on the sim, too. Until the day we have an uber smooth running SL within a sim loaded up with avatars, I can't see any sense in increasing the limit. Seconded. I would like to see increased performance with 40 avatars first before prim alottment goes up. |
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Ceera Murakami
Texture Artist / Builder
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 7,750
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12-31-2007 05:23
There is one way to make a build that exceeds 15,000 prims. Build it so it spans more than one sim! You could, for example, build a large castle that straddles the boundary between two sims, and would have 15,000 prims and 40 avatars to play with on each side of the border. But you'll also then have to use special building tricks to make sure no one falls through the floor as they cross from one sim to the next. Likewise the corner between 4 sims could be used to make a venue that would have 4 x the apparent total available for prims and for avatars.
But in each of these cases, the total allocation in any one sim is still a max of 15,000 prims and 40 avatars. Private sims can increase the avatar limit, but that is paid for in performance. A sim that allows 100 avatars in it at once is a lag cesspit when full.
SL isn't really designed to play well at sim edges though, so as a builder I generally avoid building things any closer than 10 M from the sim edge, unless there is a good reason to have it straddle the sim border. For example, I have made bridges that span from one sim to the next, and that works fine, because you only spend a little time at or near the crossover point as you use the bridge. But I certainly wouldn't want to place a bedroom in a house so it straddles a sim border!
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Snowman Jiminy
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Join date: 23 Dec 2007
Posts: 424
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12-31-2007 05:40
From: Lexii Lane Thanks for the help everyone... And the prim bonus might be a possibility for me... I could probably use that!
Does LL plan on increasing the prim alotment anytime in the near Future? As the server technology gets faster this could be done, but it is more likely that LL would opt to stuff more sims onto the machines than more prims onto the sims. |
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Lindal Kidd
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Join date: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 8,371
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12-31-2007 06:26
Alicia, your long and detailed description of the prim bonus worries me.
Let's say we have a mainland sim. We subdivide off a 4096 plot.
Normally, this plot would have 937 prims available.
But...let's assume that nobody builds anything else in that sim. I'd thought that, as long as the sim limit of 15,000 is observed, you could build anything you wanted inside that 4096 plot, ignoring the plot's own 937 limit.
Am I wrong?
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Snowman Jiminy
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Join date: 23 Dec 2007
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12-31-2007 06:54
From: Lindal Kidd Alicia, your long and detailed description of the prim bonus worries me.
Let's say we have a mainland sim. We subdivide off a 4096 plot.
Normally, this plot would have 937 prims available.
But...let's assume that nobody builds anything else in that sim. I'd thought that, as long as the sim limit of 15,000 is observed, you could build anything you wanted inside that 4096 plot, ignoring the plot's own 937 limit.
Am I wrong? Alicia is right. You are wrong, but only because you cannot get prim bonus on mainland. As a result, your 4096 parcel will report itself as full at 937 prims...unless you also own the remaining 61 000 sq m on the sim, in which case you can stuff 15 000 prims into your 4096. |
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Lindal Kidd
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Join date: 26 Jun 2007
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12-31-2007 06:56
From: Snowman Jiminy ...unless you also own the remaining 61 000 sq m on the sim, in which case you can stuff 15 000 prims into your 4096. Whew. That is precisely the situation I was describing. Thank you.
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Ceera Murakami
Texture Artist / Builder
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 7,750
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12-31-2007 07:38
Your personal allocation for prims in a sim is based on what percentage of the sim you own, times the prim allocation bonus. The Prim Allocation bonus simply sets the point at which your parcels will refuse to allow you to add more prims. But it doesn't create them out of nothing.
For example, if you owned 1/3 of the sim, and the prim allocation bonus was the default 1.0 value, you would get 1.0 * (15,000 / 3) = 5000 prims, to use as you please in any parcels that you have. You could stack them all in a single 16M2 ad farm parcel, as long as you left the rest of your land empty. But when you hit that total, additive across all parcels that you own in that sim, then all of your parcels report that they are full. Meanwhile, the sim owner, who has the other 2/3 of the sim in a single parcel of their own, can use 10,000 prims.
Now let's say the sim owner sets the prim allocation bonus to 1.5, you still own 1/3 of the sim, and they own the rest of the sim. You would get 1.5 * (15,000 / 3) = 7500 prims before you get a parcel full limit. But to allow you the full use of that 7500 prims, the sim owner has to refrain from using prims that they would otherwise be entitled to in their side. Their 2/3 of a sim parcel also gets the prim allocation bonus, and will tell them that they could use 15,000 prims! Which means they could shut you out completely, allowing you no prims at all, merely by loading their 2/3 of the sim with a full 15,000 prims. To be certain that you can use your full 7500 prims, they can use no more than 7500 prims themselves. Because when the sim-wide total hits 15,000, no one gets more to use, and all parcels report that they are full, regardless of prim count per owner.
A typical way to manage this is to allocate a portion of the sim to prim-free or very low prim areas. For example, the water around the edges of the sim needs virtually no prims. Paths and walkways between parcels that are allowed to be sold can be left bare, or can be populated with a sparse arrangement of prim walkways and low-prim plantings. The four "FairChang Calypso" sims are a good example of this. The parcels that are for sale are double-prim, with an allocation bonus of 2.0. But a little more than half of the sim is set up as non-purchasable walkways and open areas beween the purchasable parcels, with just a few trees and plants in those areas.
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Colette Meiji
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Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
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12-31-2007 08:00
I think LL's solution to not increasing prim allotments was sculpties.
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Kitty Barnett
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Join date: 10 May 2006
Posts: 5,586
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01-02-2008 02:09
From: Lexii Lane Does LL plan on increasing the prim alotment anytime in the near Future? Regarding prim increases: From: Andrew Linden The main problem with lots of prims is in the “interestlist” code, which decides which objects for which to send updates to the viewer. That is, the simulator will lag for larger number of prims for reasons that are independent of the physics engine.
Sometime after the Havok4 project is done we’ll also be starting another project we’re calling “object transport” which will be an overhaul of the server-side interestlist code, how objects are streamed to the client and also how they are received at the client. Maybe even changes to how they are cached… not sure.
In any case, there won’t be any total prim budget changes per region until “object transport” is getting done. It will probably be broken into smaller parts, which are deployed as they are completed. Arbitrary prim sizes (indirectly "increases" the amount of prims you have to work with since less go wasted): From: someone There will be no increases in the max scale of prims in Havok4. I expect that we won’t increase the default prim size until we can fix the “encroachment problem”, which is where someone’s objects on their parcel overlap onto their neighbor’s parcel, to their neighbor’s dismay.
I have a plan for fixing that, and it is part of my megaprim plan.
The plan is:
(1) Allow parcel owners/managers to move (or maybe just return) objects that overlap their parcels
(2) provide some UI feedback to the resident when moving their objects, indicating whether they overlap neighboring parcels
(3) maybe… provide real-time enforcement of parcel permissions. That is, allow parcel owners to set a paranoid bit “I don’t want anyone, or these specific people, from putting stuff on my parcel”.
Once that is done… then perhaps we will allow you to make prims/objects as large as you want… as long as they fit on your parcel. That is what I’m calling (4) megaprim liberation
There are some details there that need to be worked out, and if it gets done it will be done in steps, as each sub-project is complete.
The object-parcel collision info depends on Havok4 which is why that project is on hold until Havok4 is done. Don't hold your breath waiting for either to happen even in the span of a year, but at least you know what's planned long-termed . |
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Dekka Raymaker
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Join date: 4 Feb 2007
Posts: 3,898
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01-02-2008 07:17
hmmm can a prim bonus be negative i.e 0.8?
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Atashi Toshihiko
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Join date: 7 Dec 2006
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01-02-2008 07:50
From: Dekka Raymaker hmmm can a prim bonus be negative i.e 0.8? It doesn't seem to allow that. I just tried and it won't go any lower than 1.0. -Atashi
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Dekka Raymaker
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Join date: 4 Feb 2007
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01-02-2008 08:16
Thanks for checking |
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Alicia Sautereau
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Join date: 20 Feb 2007
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01-02-2008 08:21
From: Dekka Raymaker Thanks for checking make smaller plots |