open source client vs open standard protocol

LL is in the business to protect IP. It makes since that their client is not open source software.

However, it would they would also be able to protect the IP of their own client if they moves the protocol to be an open standard.

I feel this is the best move.

An open standard protocol allows everybody else to make an open source client of their own... or make a completely proprietary client. However, it would be only the protocol itself that is the open standard.

Hi Dzonatas

LL already use an "open" network protocol. Each time the something changes they publish a new one and that is why we all need to update our clients and the grid is shut for 4 or 5 hours.

Libsl built on this protocol, not on the existing LL client.

Ed

Just to reassure everyone, the current client is not open sourced. the LibSL guys are attempting to develop their own client.. which WILL be open sourced, by reverse engineering the current client, based on the signals sent back and forth between client and server.

Much like one might be able to build a modem based on carefully listening to the types of tones it makes, and watching what information is being passed to it. Or trying to determine a recipie based only on tasting the final dish, or smelling it.

Can't they ban it?

LindenLabs knows that reverse engineering has been going on since the second caveman made his own wheel. Reverse engineering CAN'T be prevented. It can be outlawed.. but then only outlaws will reverse engineer the client.

But do they have to 'support it?'

Much good can be gained by "supporting" reverse engineering. For one, it takes pressure off your company as the sole developer of features and applications for your standard or platform. One day soon, someone will develop a program for IMing into and out of SL without logging in. Then someone else will port that to java, or flash, or something similarly "portable" and soon you'll see applications for palmpilots and cellphones. That's not the BEST example, because LL has intended to transition to the Jabber standard for IMs for some time now.

The more "third party" applications support your standard or platform.. the more likely it is that your standard or platform will become the dominant one in the industry. The easier a company makes it for others to "play nice" with them.. the more likely they will be an industry icon in the long run.

As opensource developers learn to teach their applications to "create" things in world.. they could be the ones who bring us "a php program that can write notecards" (something no script inworld can do). Perhaps they could develop a way for inworld scripts to interact fully with outside applications. They could bring us "text only" clients, or "top down" clients that could allow (theorhetically) someone to perform simple world interaction via website interface (maybe a flash based one?).. or perhaps they could develop "low end" clients that could function on an old Pentium 1 laptop.

Copybot can copy stuff.. that's bad, isn't it?

Being able to build in world, is HUGE.. and the copybot is able to do this. It won't be long before someone can connect copybot's "builder" to a obj, dxf, 3ds, skp file reader. And soon it will be a short order job to import" builds made in "real" 3-d modelling and drafting programs. Likewise.. copybot could be used to "export" those objects from Secondlife.

Export, import.. who cares? things can be built in world if you want them in world, and built outside if you want them outside!

Imagine a future in SL, where it was seen as a great platform for designers to get together and hold a "virtual meeting", toss some ideas out on the table, argue back and forth, and build a model together of a design they want to build in the real world. They could then pull that construct out of the "game", and push a few buttons, and then send that file down the road to the designers and engineers who can "clean it up" and fix any design issues that the guys at the meeting missed.

Sure beats cocktail napkins.

What value for importing? imagine a week later.. the designers get together for another virtual meeting. Instead of reviewing reams of technical documents sent back from the engineers.. they can see the updated model of their design, before it goes into production. They can walk around it, climb on it, etc. And through the magic of SL, they can get the engineer to show up at that meeting and answer questions, even if he's half a world away.

Okay fine.. so objects.. I can see that, but what about avatars?

The avatar capturing nature of copybot, could make it easy to design your avatar in world, and then output that data to poser or another program for rendering, or 3-d printing.. we've already seen one company selling statues of your avatar. Once again reversing the concept.. imagine the power of being able to IMPORT an avatar. Now you can use all your applications... poser, photoshop, whatever.. to generate your avatar and his/her clothes and hair.. push a few buttons, and some future program might be able to interpolate that data, and poof.. your avatar is ready. Whole new businesses could open up, doing real-world 3d scanning of people, and electronically processing that data to create avatars and skins that look PRECISELY like theirr human counterparts.

WHile it's true that there's been a lot of drama and reactionary response to this program coming "out of the blue"... and a lot of damage has been done by allowing the sourecode to be freely accessed by those who would misuse it... it really shows how far the libSl guys have come... and the abilities they've captured to date, as evidenced in this easily misused "xerox machine"... shows that what they are doing, have done, and may be able to do for us down the road.. is not only valuable, but should be supported.

in my opinion.

Also, what you mention is one of the reasons why it is not formally published neither as an open source client nor an open standard. There are still too many radical changes.

However, the work towards an open standard would make the server more binded to support specific published versions. This would mean less downtime in the end.

An open source client would mean greater amounts of maintenance that LL would have to worry about throught product upgrades and contributions. I'm sure this related maintenance downtime is something we all don't want.

Nope they aren't. They are no law enforcement agency and there is never an affirmative duty for law enforcement placed on a private citizen. Nor did they enter a contract with you to do this. They merely stated that they would not claim copyright for creations of residents in second life.

Oh, and as a personal favor: Please stop using the word property in relation to usage rights. It is nearly as misleading and silly as using the word piracy in relation to actions that neither involve a body of water, nor displacement of property by violent means.

Are you suggesting that LL does not want to protect their own software that they have designed?

Thank you! I needed a long, loud laugh even if my co-workers are now looking at be funny.

LL doesn't care at all about IP. they show this in their attitude towards content creators - they insist that peopel sort out their own IP related problems without getting LL involved, but won't provide any tools to allow this.

This thread isn't about those IP issues. This thread is about the software, the one you used to log in to SL to create such content for which you mentioned an IP issue about. Ask yourself the same question that I posted righ before yours.

If anybody has developed content in-world and has an issue about that content's IP protection, this is not the thread to post about it.

I'm looking for comments that are on topic about open standards versus open source.