Can a "bug" really be placed on my avatar, or in my home?
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Eveline Nixdorf
Registered User
Join date: 14 Jan 2007
Posts: 201
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06-10-2007 01:52
Is this really true? Can it be done without my knowledge? Are the "bugs" detectable, and if so, is there a way for me to tell who put it there? And - can they tell the owner where I am? This seems so goofy... thanks in advance.
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FD Spark
Prim & Texture Doodler
Join date: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 4,697
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06-10-2007 01:57
Are you referring to a listening device bug? Or something else.
Any one can ease drop on public conversation if they are close enough. Anyone who you've given permission see your location can too. It has nothing to do with bugs. It has to do with the programing of Second Life.
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Lostmedia Ares
Drinking tea
Join date: 6 Sep 2006
Posts: 290
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06-10-2007 02:47
From: Eveline Nixdorf Is this really true? Can it be done without my knowledge? Are the "bugs" detectable, and if so, is there a way for me to tell who put it there? And - can they tell the owner where I am? This seems so goofy... thanks in advance. Hi ya , YES bugs can be placed on land and on your avatar . Listening devices can be placed on any land that has build enabled . Your chat can be herd by another avatar no matter where he or she is located in SL .... it can even be logged and sent to them via email while they are offline . Trackers can allso be places inside objects and given as gift to show your exact location in SL The Listening device is against the rules of the TOS if you have not concented to having the device on your land , Anyone found to be using them can be banned from secondlife . Bug's are detectable . IM me inworld if you would like help to scan for bug's .
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Ed Gobo
ed44's alt
Join date: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 220
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06-10-2007 04:29
Just be careful about accepting strange objects. You need to give permission for any objects to attach to yourself, so be careful clicking those little blue screens!
Also frequently check your land for objects that don't belong to you and return them.
Unfortunately, someone could have a bug sitting on a parcel adjacent to yours. I think chat can travel about 20 M, so that is how much friendly space you need around yourself.
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Qie Niangao
Coin-operated
Join date: 24 May 2006
Posts: 7,138
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06-10-2007 04:40
For anything private, use IMs. The Lindens log all IMs and retain them for some unknown interval, though, so if you're plotting armed insurrection you'll want some encryption  |
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Object Pascale
moshi moshi
Join date: 27 Jan 2007
Posts: 648
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06-10-2007 05:37
From: Lostmedia Ares
Bug's are detectable .
IM me inworld if you would like help to scan for bug's .
how can you tell if an object somebody left on your land is a bug? is it somehow possible to detect if an object is using llInstantMessage()? |
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Atashi Toshihiko
Frequently Befuddled
Join date: 7 Dec 2006
Posts: 1,423
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06-10-2007 05:45
You can scan for actively scripted objects, and you can use the land tools of course to tell if there's something on your land that you didn't put there. I don't know if there are tools that can actually scan for objects using llListen, according to what I've read in the wiki you can't scan specifically for 'bugs' though, just scripted things.
-Atashi
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Object Pascale
moshi moshi
Join date: 27 Jan 2007
Posts: 648
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06-10-2007 06:26
From: Atashi Toshihiko You can scan for actively scripted objects, and you can use the land tools of course to tell if there's something on your land that you didn't put there. I don't know if there are tools that can actually scan for objects using llListen, according to what I've read in the wiki you can't scan specifically for 'bugs' though, just scripted things. That's what I thought. When a friend of mine was being bugged last summer, her friend came along to scan for bugs and confirmed one didn't exist, but I failed to see how it was possible to reliably detect them. Just because a scripted prim is on your land doesn't mean you're being bugged. You don't even need object creation rights to bug somebody in the same sim as you. Just attach an invisible scripted prim to your camera, disable camera constraints and cam over to your victim. I was once told that Pathfinder Linden identified a follow-me bugged prim attached to somebody in a welcome area, and although I'm not sure how reliable that second-hand information is, I figure it's possible if Lindens can access any script's source. |
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Raudf Fox
(ra-ow-th)
Join date: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 5,119
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06-10-2007 06:56
Frankly, turning on auto return would solve this 'little issue,' if you own the land you are on. Your friends might not be able to keep things out for too long, but....
In my case, I have no worry about privacy, but if I need to chat in 'private,' well, that's what IMs are for.
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Nika Talaj
now you see her ...
Join date: 2 Jan 2007
Posts: 5,449
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06-10-2007 07:54
Object, are you sure your "spying" idea of attaching something to your camera is possible? (just trying to cut down on the paranoia) I've searched the forums and the scripting wiki and I don't see any way to do it ... but then I'm very noobish ... attach to a hud, yes, but to the camera?
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Verkin Raven
Registered User
Join date: 5 Jan 2005
Posts: 243
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06-10-2007 07:56
From: Raudf Fox Frankly, turning on auto return would solve this 'little issue,' if you own the land you are on. Your friends might not be able to keep things out for too long, but....
In my case, I have no worry about privacy, but if I need to chat in 'private,' well, that's what IMs are for. It's absolutely dumbfounding how much land in SL doesn't have autoreturn. I guess people like noob wangs and freebie vehicle junkyards. |
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Desmond Shang
Guvnah of Caledon
Join date: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 5,250
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06-10-2007 10:18
Chatspies! Heh, silly people.
Some *are* hard to detect; I won't get into it too deeply (nor do I know the latest on this stuff) but if you have them zipping by really quick it may be a bit tougher to monitor. But you can catch them out.
There's one REALLY good bit of fun to have if you are spied on, though. All you need is a friend, and a quick IM to them - hey, we are being spied, let's have some fun!
Realise also, there's usually a 'top ten list' of suspects skanky enough to do such a thing, so you may already have a good idea who some of the spyer's friends are.
Then you get to pick from several skits in your repertoire...
"Good thing nobody knows we are Lindens"
"SL was just sold to (Google/MindArk/M$oft-pick one) - I hear that $L will be worthless tomorrow!"
"Avatar X (pick someone really sappy and annoying) is actually Famous Celebrity!"
"I found out from my Linden friend that the colocation facilities are full, and land prices will triple, I'm buying up all I can!"
Of course, you can improvise... bring friends over, elaborate on the plot... good fun!
Just never admit to how you detect chatspies, or that you even can, or the party's over.
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 Steampunk Victorian, Well-Mannered Caledon!
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Object Pascale
moshi moshi
Join date: 27 Jan 2007
Posts: 648
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06-10-2007 10:25
XD These tactics are used by celebrities to rat out "friends" who talk to the press. Interesting parallel. |
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Aleister Montgomery
Minding the gap
Join date: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 846
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06-10-2007 12:59
From: Eveline Nixdorf Is this really true? Can it be done without my knowledge? Are the "bugs" detectable, and if so, is there a way for me to tell who put it there? And - can they tell the owner where I am? This seems so goofy... thanks in advance. You just need to take some simple precautions. Here's what the technology of SL allows, and how you disable spyware in a simple way: 1.) Scripted objects dropped onto your land. Scripts could listen to the public chat, over a certain distance, and send the chat to the object owner. It's also possible to include a scanner and gather the names of every visitor. — To avoid such objects, either disable others from creating objects on your land, or set an autoreturn value other than zero, 5 minutes for example (you can find both settings in the land options). 2.) Objects can follow a resident around, even if the resident doesn't wear or attach them. — These objects are gone as soon as you leave the sim. They won't follow you when you teleport. On your own land, the autoreturn function is helpful again and sends such objects back to the owner. 3.) Worn prim objects (attachments) can be scripted the same way. But it's your choice to put them on in the first place. — Don't attach anything if you don't trust the creator, especially not things that are sent to you unasked. If you're unsure if you currently wear any "spyware", right-click yourself and select "detach all" (this will leave your clothes on and only remove prim objects). |
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Jezebella Desmoulins
Registered User
Join date: 4 Nov 2005
Posts: 561
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06-10-2007 13:45
I wish Governor Linden would set an auto-return because if you add "plane crash site" to that list, you've just described the reserved for future use public road strip that runs through my home sim. From: Verkin Raven It's absolutely dumbfounding how much land in SL doesn't have autoreturn. I guess people like noob wangs and freebie vehicle junkyards. |
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Raudf Fox
(ra-ow-th)
Join date: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 5,119
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06-10-2007 13:55
From: Jezebella Desmoulins I wish Governor Linden would set an auto-return because if you add "plane crash site" to that list, you've just described the reserved for future use public road strip that runs through my home sim. *noddles* It can be 30 minutes or even 24 hours for all I care, but it needs an auto return! It's not like LL can't program the system to set any land owned by the good Guv' to do just that. Question is, why haven't they done this ages ago? They've had at least 5 years of being asked to clean Linden Lands and it hasn't happened yet!
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Desmond Shang
Guvnah of Caledon
Join date: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 5,250
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06-10-2007 18:55
From: Aleister Montgomery You just need to take some simple precautions. Here's what the technology of SL allows, and how you disable spyware in a simple way:
1.) Scripted objects dropped onto your land. Scripts could listen to the public chat, over a certain distance, and send the chat to the object owner. It's also possible to include a scanner and gather the names of every visitor.
— To avoid such objects, either disable others from creating objects on your land, or set an autoreturn value other than zero, 5 minutes for example (you can find both settings in the land options).
2.) Objects can follow a resident around, even if the resident doesn't wear or attach them.
— These objects are gone as soon as you leave the sim. They won't follow you when you teleport. On your own land, the autoreturn function is helpful again and sends such objects back to the owner.
3.) Worn prim objects (attachments) can be scripted the same way. But it's your choice to put them on in the first place.
— Don't attach anything if you don't trust the creator, especially not things that are sent to you unasked. If you're unsure if you currently wear any "spyware", right-click yourself and select "detach all" (this will leave your clothes on and only remove prim objects). A few comments: 1) Creator tags don't tell you all you need to know, if it's a mod object. Griefers typically use objects that seem to be made and/or owned by others, but have been modified to suit their purposes. 2) High speed objects can be tough to track. Even a scripted item beacon is pretty useless on a cloud of prims too small to see, all moving at 100m / second. 3) Social engineering: Having dealt with literally hundreds of residents, some with horrific griefing issues, I've noticed a pattern. It can basically be summed up as 'the butler did it'... most of the time, when evidence is finally in, it seems the perpetrator is already someone the resident knows well. That's not counting the overwhelming number of times there wasn't *anyone* spying but people thought so, or the person wasn't griefing *themself* in some way (laggy attachment, malfunctioning shield messing themself up, &c &c.)
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Susie Boffin
Certified Nutcase
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 2,151
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06-10-2007 20:13
From: Verkin Raven It's absolutely dumbfounding how much land in SL doesn't have autoreturn. I guess people like noob wangs and freebie vehicle junkyards. Some of us have freebies on our land and we don't have autoreturn on because we want the new residents to be able to unpack their freebie boxes while they are there. Not all of us who have autoreturn disabled are stupid wangs whatever that is.
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Ace Albion
Registered User
Join date: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 866
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06-11-2007 01:32
A stupid wang would be, erm, a crude approximation of a gentleman's appendage. Verkin wasn't calling anyone such, just saying that people must like having them cluttering all over their land.
I'm not sure how autoreturn stops anyone rezzing stuff- even *sandboxes* use autoreturn, just set to hours, not minutes.
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Aleister Montgomery
Minding the gap
Join date: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 846
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06-11-2007 04:38
From: Ace Albion I'm not sure how autoreturn stops anyone rezzing stuff- even *sandboxes* use autoreturn, just set to hours, not minutes. It doesn't stop anyone. But returning all prims of strangers every 5 minutes is usually enough to prevent prim griefing, other than rapidly spawning grey goo. Of course, completely disabling the creation of prims is always a better solution. But some places like shopping areas want to allow their customers to unpack sales boxes without teleporting home first. Or to be able to rez a plane or boat for 30-60 minutes. |
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AWM Mars
Scarey Dude :¬)
Join date: 10 Apr 2004
Posts: 3,398
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06-11-2007 05:53
Bought some land recently, was advertised as being fully cleaned and ready for use. I ALWAYS check our land daily, so went through the usual checks and found 6 scripted, but 100% transparent objects with scripts running. Easy to get rid of on 'cleared land', but harder once you start building. Some scripted objects, so I've heard, can migrate to other prims when droped if they are set to 'physical', or even the land itself. I can't confirm this, but I am wary.
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Ace Albion
Registered User
Join date: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 866
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06-12-2007 03:26
From: Aleister Montgomery It doesn't stop anyone. But returning all prims of strangers every 5 minutes is usually enough to prevent prim griefing, other than rapidly spawning grey goo.
Of course, completely disabling the creation of prims is always a better solution. But some places like shopping areas want to allow their customers to unpack sales boxes without teleporting home first. Or to be able to rez a plane or boat for 30-60 minutes. Well my point was that Susie could still have autoreturn set to whatever time it takes for her visitors to take out and poke around their free stuff, and still not leave the area looking like a rubbish tip.
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