not a conversation about open source client

I've seen a lot of responses of the form "this will kill my SL business" and they are probably half correct.

Prior to the monetization of the L$, people were happy to create for its own sake. Will creators who created in this way and then found they had a lucrative business stop creating when it becomes less lucrative?

This is an honest question. My "big seller" (pre-GOM) sold for L$50; obviously, I wasn't doing it for the cash.

I've always been happy(ier) to create for it's own sake, and will continue to do so.

The only reason I started selling stuff was to make up for dwell income going away. (and to help offset my tier fees. I'm a territorial grump that likes a lot of elbow room. )

When I was young, I've done creative work just for the fun of it. At some point it became a job for me. It was great to combine a hobby with means to get food on the kitchen table and some luxury goods into the the living room. It was a little more stressful, but still fun. If my boss had told me after two years that he'd stop paying me since I obviously had so much fun in my work, I'd have cancelled the job and looked for another way to pay my rent.

When I started in SL, I was just looking for another adult sandbox-style MMORPG. It became a job for me as well. I would have used the platform as a creative outlet only, prior to L$ monetization, but I wouldn't go back there now. Frankly, there isn't much of a "game" to go back to, with bugs that can only be endured if you got paid for the stress and with pubescent trouble makers everywhere. Without a little business that allows me to pay for my island, I'd rather opt to wait for Sociolotron II. Much better for my nerves and my gastric ulcer.

i just recently had a small PM session with Darkness A. about creativity versus $$$ and how could we work towards fostering a community we were more used to "back in the day".

initially i came into this thread thinking it was going to be way off topic for RA and i'd have to close it or something, but i read your initial post, Malachi, and was happy to see it was a fairly relative thread.

anyhoo, point is.. the creators who have been here for creating will continue to do so.. unless something completely borks their hard work (i.e., Starax).

while it's the monetary vbalue of the world of SL that drives it forward at the momentum it's been going, it's the creativity that let's it exist in the first place. some make money from it, some don't.. some care, some don't.

so, in short, no. the creators, as a whole, will not stop creating. more pertinently, those who have become used to receiving $L for their hard work may be less inclined to continue if that's hampered to much.

but honestly, while the thread title may suggest otherwise, this is about Open Sourcing SL and what effect it will have on the creators of our world.

my opinion? we'll not only see things turn out fine, but better! open sourcing isn't going to cause a catastrophe.. as far as SL itself goes. maybe for residents who use 3rd party viewers, but not if people stick with either LL's updates or 3rd party viewers that become trusted.. over time. with what will become a more functional and user-friendly SL, there will come more and more serious (and not so serious) users/residents.. more people = more money.

there may be some bumps along the way.. but everyone is going to win with this one. (well, maybe not the griefers so much.. but you know what i mean)

I'm a relatively Good Builder. I've sold a Few of my works, and have had people Seek me out to commission Builds, and i do them, BUT so far Building hasn't become a Business to me (I recently Cancelled One Comission, and just GAVE the building to the client, Just because She loved it, and i Felt like it).

I'm going to try to Build as a Business, But to me SL, and before that, TSO has Never been about Money, or Gains. It has always been about the people and the (In TSO, Limited) creativity. I think i would Quit the business, and go back to building for pleasure the Moment i Didn't feel like Logging on because i "Had another Job to do".

So, what is the average amount of Lindens i have at one time? usually 200 to 500 with rare forays to the five to ten K Mark. Ive Loved every minute of two years in SL without defining myself by the size of my bank account, or feeling Invalidated because of a low level of disposable Dosh. I spend it when i have it, i Don't Miss it when it's Gone, and i Have Fun.

Angel.

OK, so am I to understand from these comments, Cybin, that Open Source is a good thing, because content creators (except for scriptors, of course) will no longer get paid for their work, so it will be back to the "for the creativity of it" only?

coco

Well a lot of the successfull creators are able to be so successful because they either 1. quit their RL job or 2. went down to a part time job in order to devote more time to creating products and make an income doing so.

I know several ppl who depend on SL for their income and if they had to go and get a full time job in RL I doubt they would release new content, esp if they had to get the job because their content was being stolen


If my content was being stolen I would stop creating

I started creating long before it was possible to make real money, but making L$ was still a big motivation. Remember taxes? If the market collapsed I'd still create things in SL. I just couldn't afford to devote nearly as much time or energy to it. That mortgage payment is a killer.

You're missing the point. It's not about opensource. Let's go back to the days when the client code was not opensource.

Let's say i'm the best content creator overall and I'm way better than anybody else. Let's say I want to give away my stuff for free, just because I like the warm feeling of making people happy. Let's say other people as good as me, or good enough, does the same.

You would go out of business, or you would make only a few dimes.

You're a content creator and you have the choice to ask for any amount of money, or no money at all. Everybody else has the same choice.

Not necessarily. Theres even the whole "I paid 300 for this shirt I can afford it im coolllllllllllll!!!11111111111111" demeaner in SL.


Your things would just become, well freebies, for many. Good quality freebies, but freebs non the less.

Of course, this is just my opinion on that statement.

I think I understand this. Wouldn't say I'm cool ... my friends do that for me .. but things I've bought, because I specifically browsed and considered and eventually gave up my $ for, have already earned some respect before I ever wear/rez them.
I keep very carefully tabs on them and make sure they do not disappear in the plethora of freebies. Even though some of the freebies are very good, they weren't actually chosen by me, just picked up in a box and therefore need to earn my respect. Hence I cycle mainly through my bought stuff.
The behavioural concepts in SL just never cease to fascinate me

i seriously am wondering how Open Sourcing the client will intrude on content creators.

anything tha could be exploited could be done without Open-Sourcing; ho9wever, going to an Open Source model could potentially help content creators, not harm.

what i was postulating was that some of the SL population who create content do so because they enjoy creating, yet not so worried about monetary gains. on the other hand, those who are worried about monetary gains will almost definitely profit from the Open Source model because (as has been stated elsewhere) the scripting community will most likely provide fixes to bugs, as well as a possible watermark solution which LL could integrate into the viewr/client.

so no.. i'm not suggesting anyone will lose revenue or should be happy to do so.. i'm suggesting exactly the opposite.

(but i have to go for now.. RL responsibilities and all)

hope this clarified my position. yes?

Well, maybe. Anyway my point was that it doesn't matter if the client is opensource or not. I could just put someone out of business by making the same, better or close to it stuff and giving it away for free.

Now sure, there are the "I can afford a 450 L$ outfit and you can't" people, but as far as I can tell, most people want the "best bang for the buck".

This is why I have the "wait and see" attitude. Who knows? By allowing the more honest code tinkers in the group to get a lookie at the code, maybe, just maybe they can figure out the answers to problems that LL hasn't the time or personnel for.

Now, if this were to become less lucrative would I still create? Hmm... probably, given that I only charge to cover monthly fee. It's just a bonus for me to have a self-supporting hobby.

The problem is that you can't, in many cases, be "interested in creating content without worrying about monetary gains".

If you want to create content, you're very often going to need land to put it on. If you want land, you have to pay money. Of course some people are happy to do that, but even then there's always shades of grey involved. Knowing that you can have that 8192sqm of land with no loss to your RL bank account gives you a more creative freedom compared to knowing you'll have to pay as you go. Imagine an artist who gets all their paper for free and another artist who has to pay $10 per sheet of paper they use - who is going to be more experimental?

As far as I understand it, the whole reason why the "sell L$ for US$" system was tried out in the first place was to bridge the gap that appeared when tier fees were introduced.

It may not be flattering, but money is a powerful motivator. My favorite designers are those who happen to make money and spend a great deal of time creating things. Whatever their motivation, if they pull back then the game is less rich than it was.

In clothing at least, I haven't seen anything made for the fun of it that can compare to that from the most well-known, paid designers.

Does anyone know if there are *any* skins readily available from an unpaid designer?

Content in SL sours or goes stale over time....

Consider the effect that 'flexi' prims had on clothing and hair,
or the new lighting methods on old lights. Content creators
sellers had to step up and adop these new features or their
offerings were no longer competitive.

It's the content creators that have the most time, talent and
motivation that will profit most from the "newer" features.
Newer features that should begin creeping into SL at a faster
pace now that we can help LL create them.

I, frankly, would worry more about 'unplanned' obsolesence
than copy-bot like theft issues.

This argument is being raised every time this sort of issue pops up, but at the bottom of it, this isn't really about "it can now be done" but "it can now be done *easier*"

In similar manner it used to be possible to produce a car by manual labour. Cars were a few and as such expensive and as such rare sight. Then came Henry Ford and well, you know how it went from there.

It's not that Ford did something that couldn't already be done. He simply lowered the access barrier to the point where cars would become mainstream.

But yes, there's also potential to help content creators here. It just doesn't make the potential to *harm* any lesser so it makes one wonder if this tradeoff is going to be worth it... O.o

If LL also goes back to that point and rents land for very small amounts that can be paid in L$, as well as requiring age / identity verification again, I have nothing against it
I need a sufficient amount of land to live and be creative on. Mainland is currently useless - if someone opens a club next to your parcel and draws insane traffic numbers with camping chairs, it becomes impossible to work on your own land. Public sandboxes? Talk about griefers and open account registration. A private island is my only option to deal with griefers and get sufficient grid performance to be able to be creative. In order to pay for it, I have to sell content.

Hmmm, you and Yura Murakami brought up some points I did not think about. Anyway I still think that for content creators the problem is not the client being opensourced.

But we'll see! Hugs