Sex play questions...

(Posted here...because I couldn't find an appopriate forum for resident discussion...If I'm wrong direct me) I am relatively new to 2nd Life. I've heard a lot about Second Life and it is getting a lot of positive press as an exciting new thing. I work as a counselor with kids. What disappoints me about Second Life is the pervasive use of child avatars for sex play and the open advertisement about such play. I have heard these arguments: this is a games, these are consenting adults, no one can do anything about it anyway. Second Life has had much positive press with the involvement of celebreties, universities, and corporations. I doubt very much that these groups and individuals know about this side of Second Life. Here are my questions: Why should users of Second Life be able to access content which is not otherwise legally available on the web? There may be a distinction between photographs and images but how can anyone claim that users who enjoys seeing images of child sexual activity at Second Life would not also appreciate actual photos? There may be some who say that this is an aspect of Second Life that harms no one and reflects nothing about their actual life, but how do we know that? Maybe it is a small minority that engages in these activities, and maybe of that a small minority are actual pedophiles. Why should pedaphiles
have a forum to enact their fantasies and compare notes? Some may say we only do this on Second Life and nowhere else..but who is to know? Is it worth the risk? As a counselor who works with kids and sees the devestating and life long effects of abuse, I find such imagery not a game at all. My question to the Second Life management is this: If I am wrong about these arguments and this is harmless activity, why not create a seperate sim specifically billed for child sex play or pedaphile sex for consenting adults. If Linden Labs would be embarrased to do this as I would think they would be, then it is unfair to the great majority of paricipitants to allow the activity to go on under the cover of second life... It also tarnishes Second Life's promise by providing cover for pedaphiles, and it could be easily corrected.

I agree with you that such activity is totally inappropriate. I myself have never nor do I ever plan to engage in such activity. That being said, I doubt LL actually has the resources to even enforce such a rule even if they wanted to. Look how many players have logged in the last 7 days for example. Suppose even 0.1% of them participated in such activities. We'd be talking about well over 200 cases even at this rate. And I'm sure you and me both agree the actual rate of participation in such events is likely higher than that. Also keep in mind that if LL were to make certain rules to please Americans (don't take it personal if you're not from there, just an example), would it not be fair that they enforce other countries laws also? Pornography is illegal in many countries. The same can be said for gambling. You don't have to look far to find them in SL.

I have not ever seen images of child sex activities in sl and I certainly do not want to.

OTOH, plenty of players are pretending to be children. Does that mean they perform sex? Never ever seen that!

Is the OP saying that child pornography is available as a product? Never seen that either but then I dont really look at any pornography in sl. Plenty of porn available elsewhere on the internet, or so I am told.

Most pixelating sex seems performed by cartoon like av's without any clothes on (again I am told this). Since noone seems to look over 16, is that illegal? Or does that become illegal when they look even younger? Sorry, I cannot answer that, but I have never seen that either.

Real children use the teen grid. Children on the main grid take great care not to look like children.

This has been discussed at length many times before and this thread will not end well.

I don't give a shit.

And you all nice chatter should do the same.

Nobody has even a little right to tell to someone else what to do or not as long as nobody is injured in the process.
That's the most basic right of humans, the right to do what the fuck you want with your friends as long as every parties involved are consenting.

I return you the question, "Why peoples should have the right to think or have emotions or fantasms? if they go agains my vision of what is right and wrong?"

Actually Pablo, its this kind of "good thinking" wich hell is paved with, i am sure you don't see anything wrong in what you say, but you aren't in their heads, nor am I.
In SL they do what they want and you do what you want too, the only difference is that while they don't bother critizing what you might do or not, you unconciously took this right by yourself, thinking that some peoples are in the right to impose their point of view to others because they are "right".

So far i think simulated age play doesn't tarnish SL as well as... thoughts police.

(This will not end well. There, I beat everyone to it)

Bear in mind that this has also been discussed, pretty much to death and back, in the old discussion forums. As was already discussed below, few child avatars in-world, particularly ones regularly used as a primary (or close to primary) character is used *at all* in this way. For many of us playing kid avatars, this *is* our counseling, counselor. This is part of how we deal with some of what we faced as kids.

But this is not a place for that sort f forum discussion. I would however suggest getting the 1/9/07 Metaverse Messenger, turning to page 17, and reading the editorial there.

Now to your questions:



I imagine that there are indeed places on the web where such content is legal. Of course, most places do label it as illegal to posses, at least in the flesh and blood variety. The pixel variety can often be a totally different story. I know there were discussions in the old forums about this: maybe consider seeking those out, 'kay?



Much of this is not a specific in-world question - but let me answer the first part with a rhetorical question of my own: when two adults get together for real world sex, and decide to "role play," say, a "naughty schoolgirl" and "firm headmaster" - or similar roles - can that reasonably be viewed as pedophilia? The only difference here would be avatar size and shape versus an obviously adult person dressing and acting like a "child" in the aforementioned scenario.

All this said, I have heard via the grapes that, yes, SL does keep an eye on some of the activity and, yes, I suspect that if there were lines crossed, they would gladly give the boot as needed. For that matter, standard TOS rules apply as well: if you see this *or any sexual activity* going on in an inappropriate place or such, it could conceivably be against SL's TOS, and you'd be more than welcome to report such.



You and me both: I cannot underscore enough that *not all 'kids' in Second Life are there for illicit purposes.* It is likely to be quite the minority and, you will further find, that when most SL Kids find out that such acts are taking place you start seeing the kids themselves leading the arguments against those places.



LL does not seem to open sims specifically for much. It is those who own the sims who govern the content, within LL's TOS guidelines. So I think your example is moot.

Mari

Probably for the same reason that dancing should be allowed.



Perhaps we should ban dancing in SL too. After all, we wouldn't want anyone kissing before marriage now, would we?



Um, you do realise this is resident answers, not Linden Lab answers, don't you?



ok, above flippancy aside, let us suppose that sexplay with underage *avatars* is going on. no real need to argue this one, as we both agree it happens.

As it happens, sexplay in RL between married couple coccurs where one, or sometimes even both, partners pretends to be underage. I'm told some even wear school uniforms or child/baby clothes as part of this play. This is perfectly legal, and I personally am of the opinion that neither the government nor LL has any right to investigate what goes on in the bedrooms of consenting adults. Further, many such consenting adults would consider their litle corner of SL to be an extension of their bedroom when doing such things.

Now, how do you distinguish such behaviour from the genuine paedophiles? When you can answer that question satisfactorily, then we can procede.

the prolem will arise as long asq some peoples think they have the capacity to think in place of others "for their own good" or even worse "for the good of the community"

alright, I'm letting my young age (early twenties) show here when I say this but.....

There are sites out there that cater to a specific crowd - Anime fans - that have a very specific rule in place: No images where the characters in question appear to be below legal age. Height of the character in question does not factor into this equation either.

I ran into someone that does age play two days ago: Her avatar, though of child stature (height) maintained the image of being over eighteen. The proper development was present. I politely declined involvement .... just on the basis of principle.

I suspect this is just alarmism. I have seen no evidence of actual pedophilia in SL. Has anyone? Is there really an existing problem here? Has anyone actually been hurt (if so, who)? If not, don't raise a hue and cry over imaginary bugbears.

Hmmm…. My first reaction is: It is not my piece of cake, but I rather see them do it here in SL with other matures, then in RL with real children.

I will ponder a bit more about it.

Morwen

I am sorry to say we do not have a forum for such discussion.

Locks and submits to Linden Review.


Torley Linden:
This thread remains closed. Please see:

/327/8d/138314/1.html

for what's appropriate. Thanks!