Strife, please add this

In your background it says short lived.

Please add that it is still currently allowed by LL for legal uses and that it's use is not banned or in violation unless they are copying something that isn't theirs.

Which in itself is the stupidest thing Ive ever heard. If the creator wanted you to be able to copy it pixel by pixel... umm wouldnt they have given you a copyable version ?

No more smoke LL. You've blown enough up an orifice that wasnt meant to have smoke blown into.

I'm sorry Strive may be a moderator, but what right does that give him to foist his opinion of this issue on us like this ?

Resmods are more qualified to have opinions than anyone else. They deserve to be able to place locked, sticky threads at will. Didn't you know that?

None at all. Entirely inappropriate.

CopyBot is something I wish I'd had a few weeks ago. Some friends of mine and I were working on a large building together, hundreds of prims. We needed to take a copy - but then one of these people became unavailable (we haven't seen him since September). Without all the prims being the same owner and modify and copy permissions set on, taking a copy of the building was impossible. I wound up having to recreate the entire structure from scratch, over the course of several weeks.

We all have protection copies of the building in our inventory now, in case something like that ever happens again, but if we'd had CopyBot, we could have made short work of that problem - it would have been solved in hours, instead of weeks.

Or what if you make something - and this has happened to me, though some months ago - and forget to set "Copy" on it before giving it to somebody else to work on? You lose your original when you hand it over. If he then forgets to set modify rights and gives it back, you now have the original thing you made back - but it's now no copy, and no modify, and you can't do a thing about it! Without CopyBot, the item has been effectively destroyed.

There are legitimate uses of CopyBot. If you accidentally lock yourself out of your own work, it can be a godsend.

No, it is LLs job to provide functionality like this in the client themselves if it is deemed necessary, and in a way that respects the rights of their customers.

Totally agree.

Read LL's blog from Robin again. Basically tries to shift the blame from LL for anything, stating that this tool does what they don't have.

Well, why not add a function in? Then it's LL regulated at least and copybot's functions cease to be needed for legal uses.

yeah so if I am a moderator, I can make a post that contains my own opinion and then sticky it as "the truth"?

excellent.

how do I become a moderator again?

I've had it.

GET STRIFE OFF THESE FORUMS AS MODERATOR.

coco

I don't have it in the background, though I do in a round about way say it is permissible for use. The sticky isn't so much about CopyBot, but about all of these content theft fiasco's. Though I could clarify what steal means in this case.



Coco, I know sometimes we don't agree, but I respect your opinion, you usually touch on the important points.

If this thread is made about me, it will be moved or locked.

I've made probably thousands of pieces and have yet to ever "lose the original" when passing something i made, have full perm scripts, and full perm textures on. Of course this doesnt take into account the items I've deleted. If you make something in SL the permissions on it only apply to future owners, the creator retains rights. This to me is a grasp into the air to try and find a legitimate use for an exploit.

It's not so much an exploit as just ignoring permissions. The level at which CopyBot works permissions are optional. Copybot doesn't do anything that couldn't be done with other means. Stealing avatars was possible before, just nobody figured out how. Cloning objects was possible too. Stealing textures was possible (both avatar & object). Point is, it was all possible before, the only thing that has change is the modus operandi.

Something that allows you to ignore permissions is an exploit. When Brent Linden described what constitutes an exploit, one of those things was anything that allowed you to bypass the permission system.

Well then, perhaps it's time to wake Brent up at 3am with exploit report emails...every night until this situation is fixed.

It's not murder so much as just ignoring viability. The level at which cutting a guy's leg off works, being alive is optional. Cutting a guy's leg off doesn't do anything that couldn't be done with other means. Cutting people's brains out was possible before, just nobody figured out how. Cutting off people's arms was possible too. Stealing noses was possible. Point it, it was all possible before, the only thing that has changed is the modus operandi.

Sorry, I STILL fail to see the point! It was still WRONG before too...I just don't get this argument whenever I see it. "People have committed genocide before..." -- yeah, and??? So we're not supposed to mind it now? So it's okay now? It's happened before so it doesn't matter that it's happening again? People have always stolen stuff so I shouldn't mind when stuff gets stolen from me???

I wonder if the person who invented the wheel got hauled into court for originating battering rams and tanks?
A lot of people here seem to forget that wheels also help ambulances?
It's the person using the gun to kill someone who's the wrong-doer, not the toolmaker in the factory. The killer would only get a different gun.

All I'm saying is that it's not an argument.

Person A: That guy poked my eye out on purpose!

Person B: People have poked peoples' eyes out before. It is possible to poke peoples' eyes out. You can't stop people from poking other peoples' eyes out.

Person A: ??? (translate into: thanks for stating the obvious, but so what? That guy poked my eye out, it's bad, but right now it's not illegal and it should be, and what can we do about that?)

It is clear that LL would like the community in SL to be a functioning community: and to somehow come up with whatever it is in a society that results in people being law abiding and establishing a state of peaceful co-existence. How does that actually happen? And how do we begin to do that, as a community?

My gut reaction to fatalistic comments like "it happens, get over it" is that they tend to put the kibosh on discussions that could lead to a development of whatever it is in a society that results in people being law abiding and establishing a state of peaceful co-existence (is there a word for that?). My sense is that saying "you can't stop it" and "it happens" and "it's possible" are attempts to quench that process, even if they don't mean to be (and that is really why I object to the moderators' sticky post, because it defines that attitude as the "correct way" to view the effort to define the ethics by which we shall live).

Now I am an old forum goer, and I have seen here and elsewhere the kind of hysteria and unruly-hoardishness and mob-mentality we've seen here in the last few days. That's bad too (even if it happens and you can't really stop it so you should just get over it <- that was kind of a joke). It's not productive. Perhaps it is inevitable for people to behave badly in a forum and to act especially bad and behave in ways they would never imagine behaving in real life. But perhaps part of it is a sense of frustration at feeling powerless.

So I wonder this: is there a way that people see for us as a community to discuss issues that disrupt our peaceful coexistence, and even outright crimes in our world? I think the answer is no ~ but what ways can we imagine?

And if this is not the place for such discussions, then where should it occur ~ a place that is visible and obvious and within SL and central?

Any philosophers/political scientists/historians/social psychologists/whatever among us have some ideas and information for us?

I do see your point Poppet. Sadly from my short time here I've come to realise this place has stopped being a general chat forum for opinions. I read in a thread, links to other forums but it's a great pity that this, LL's own managed site no longer hosts such.
Curious to note that having visited the other sites I still spend most of my time here.

There is no frickin good argument for it. We're screwed, LL is screwing us, their hacker friends are screwing us, and LL doesn't care.

We're screwed and we are doomed. The small, SL-only businesses - the ones that provide items available only in SL - are going to become near extinct. And believe me, LL doesn't care about that, either. Not the least little bit.

In fact, I think they think it's kind of cool, how we can be copied.

Do we hear anything of punishment for the hackers who unleashed this exploit upon the world? No. Why, suddenly, it's not even an EXPLOIT.

But does Cristiano get punished for telling us, finally, after not being able to rouse a Linden, to watch out for this other exploit that was going around? Sure.

Do people get punished right and left for something they said on the forums, that they don't even know what it is? You betcha.

But we hear NOTHING of punishment for these cretins who put this on us and bragged about stealing content, and "freaking out the blingtards."

No, LL just continues to assert their undying love for them, and offer free sims to them to use.

Because, see, SCRIPTS were never in danger, and SCRIPTS are all the Lindens see or care about. They are dazzled by scripts, and dazzled by hackers.

------

Having said all that, I'm opening up my store again, with as many protections as I can put in place. It will take me a few days to get it all back up and running again.

I've decided to try to crank out a little more joy from this, but it's with a far different and FAR less joyous outlook. I expect things to get increasingly worse before they get better, assuming they even do get better.

If they don't get worse, I will be pleasantly surprised, and things will go on much as they did before, at least for a while longer.

coco

No, you said short lived which implies it's now dead. It's not.