Second Life Forums Archive - Where can i get GIMP Paint shop etc....

wenkinnoc Ackland

Registered User

Join date: 19 Jan 2007

Posts: 31

01-27-2007 04:55

The various programs mentioned in-world, can they be found only in-world or can they be downloaded elsewhere?

Ordinal Malaprop

really very ordinary

Join date: 9 Sep 2005

Posts: 4,607

01-27-2007 05:29

www.gimp.org for the GIMP. Other programs tend to require you to buy them. None of them can be found in-world....

_____________________

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http://ordinalmalaprop.com/engine/ - An Engine Fit For My Proceeding, my Aethernet Journal

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Chosen Few

Alpha Channel Slave

Join date: 16 Jan 2004

Posts: 7,496

01-27-2007 05:56

There's this newfangled thing I heard about. I heard it's really cool. You just type in what you're looking for and it tells you where to find it. I think it's called Google.

Sorry, couldn't resist that one. Since you seem more comfortable asking us than asking Google, here are your answers:

As Ordinal pointed out, you can get GIMP for free from www.gimp.org. It's a great program in that it's very powerful, and you can't argue with the price. However, it's also a pretty terrible program in that it pretty much takes all standard established conventions about how a graphics program's interface should work, and tosses them out the window. It's by far the hardest to learn of all the available choices.

Photoshop, the industry standard for image editing and creation, can be found at www.adobe.com, or at any local computer store, online retailer, or major office supply store. If you can afford it, I'd highly recommend Photoshop over anything else. Not only will it help you in SL, but proficiency with it is a highly marketable skill that will only be a benefit in whatever job you ever work.

Paint Shop Pro, which has gotten quite good in its latest few versions, can be found www.corel.com, at many computer stores, some office supply stores, or your local Walmart.

There are a few other alternatives, but those are the big three. Again, I'd recommend Photoshop, hands down, if you can afford it.

_____________________

.

Land now available for rent in Indigo. Low rates. Quiet, low-lag mainland sim with good neighbors. IM me in-world if you're interested.

Thinkerer Melville

Registered User

Join date: 11 Jul 2005

Posts: 276

The Gimp

01-27-2007 06:23

From: Chosen Few

As Ordinal pointed out, you can get GIMP for free from www.gimp.org. It's a great program in that it's very powerful, and you can't argue with the price. However, it's also a pretty terrible program in that it pretty much takes all standard established conventions about how a graphics program's interface should work, and tosses them out the window. It's by far the hardest to learn of all the available choices.

Photoshop, the industry standard for image editing and creation, can be found at www.adobe.com, or at any local computer store, online retailer, or major office supply store. If you can afford it, I'd highly recommend Photoshop over anything else. Not only will it help you in SL, but proficiency with it is a highly marketable skill that will only be a benefit in whatever job you ever work.

There are a few other alternatives, but those are the big three. Again, I'd recommend Photoshop, hands down, if you can afford it.

If you are already familiar with Photoshop, you will hate The Gimp. It does not follow Photoshop's interface conventions. But if you just want to work with images, you will probably find The Gimp quite adequate. I have some introductory material on my website:
http://www.thinkerer.org/Lod/LodGimp101.htm
including how to use alpha channel for transparency in The Gimp. I will probably add more if I know what information people want.

SuezanneC Baskerville

Forums Rock!

Join date: 22 Dec 2003

Posts: 14,229

01-27-2007 06:35

From: Chosen Few

There's this newfangled thing I heard about. I heard it's really cool. You just type in what you're looking for and it tells you where to find it. I think it's called Google.

.

And where do I get one of these Google things at?

Corel Photopaint, companion to CorelDraw, is another paint program that can make the type of files that SL wants. Corel.com and a zillion retailers will sell you a copy of Photopaint.

I've created a picture or two and brought them into SL, with transparency, using Serif's Photoplus. A free non-current version of Photoplus is available at: http://www.freeserifsoftware.com/software/PhotoPlus .

_____________________

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So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them.

I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to

http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne

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http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03.

Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard,
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Dp Eros

Registered User

Join date: 22 Nov 2006

Posts: 66

01-27-2007 08:18

You can try E Bay.

Yumi Murakami

DoIt!AttachTheEarOfACat!

Join date: 27 Sep 2005

Posts: 6,860

01-27-2007 11:08

I think there's a cut down version of Photoshop called Photoshop Elements that includes most of the things you need in SL.

The full Photoshop has things like interfacing code for $3000 professional scanning equipment that most people probably aren't going to use

Chosen Few

Alpha Channel Slave

Join date: 16 Jan 2004

Posts: 7,496

01-27-2007 12:35

From: Yumi Murakami

I think there's a cut down version of Photoshop called Photoshop Elements that includes most of the things you need in SL.

The full Photoshop has things like interfacing code for $3000 professional scanning equipment that most people probably aren't going to use

Photoshop has that, yes, as well as thousands of features that most people do use. Please don't interpret one obscure feature as justification to play down everything else.

As for PSE, it will work for SL, but you have to kind of trick it into doing things that it doesn't want to do. It can be done, sure, but it's a little annoying.

Don't fall into the trap of thinking PSE is a scaled down version of Photoshop. It's not. It is in fact a completely separate program. It shares a similar interface, and it shares the Photoshop name so that Adobe can sell it more easily, but it's not all the same thing.

PS vs. PSE is a pretty good example of how choosing software can differ from choosing other products. Take a Cadillac, remove some features and you have a Chevy. It's not as nice and brag-worthy, but it's basically the same car. Take Photoshop though, remove some features, and you don't end up with Photoshop Elements. You end up with just an earlier version of Photoshop. Again, PSE is a completely separate product.

_____________________

.

Land now available for rent in Indigo. Low rates. Quiet, low-lag mainland sim with good neighbors. IM me in-world if you're interested.

Ordinal Malaprop

really very ordinary

Join date: 9 Sep 2005

Posts: 4,607

01-27-2007 15:35

I would like to add at this point that I use the GIMP for everything; I'm not paying that much for Photoshop, I don't use cracked software out of principle, and I find PSE worse than the GIMP. (Come to think of it I could probably get a copy of Photoshop from work, but I don't actually need to.)

_____________________

http://ordinalmalaprop.com/forum/ - visit Ordinal's Scripting Colloquium for scripting discussion with actual working BBCode!

http://ordinalmalaprop.com/engine/ - An Engine Fit For My Proceeding, my Aethernet Journal

http://www.flickr.com/groups/slgriefbuild/ - Second Life Griefbuild Digest, pictures of horrible ad griefing and land spam, and the naming of names

ed44 Gupte

Explorer (Retired)

Join date: 7 Oct 2005

Posts: 638

01-27-2007 15:41

Ordinal and Thinkerer , you are my hero (in) es. I am slowly getting used to the gimp!

Soen Eber

Registered User

Join date: 3 Aug 2006

Posts: 428

01-27-2007 23:04

Make sure to check out the free online documentation called "Grokking the GIMP", its very user-friendly and covers just about everything you need.

You can also get that book in a dead tree version if that's what you need.

Morwen Bunin

Everybody needs a hero!

Join date: 8 Dec 2005

Posts: 1,743

01-28-2007 05:44

From: Dp Eros

You can try E Bay.

E-Bays Google.....

Hope it will bring as much as YourTube.

Morwen.

Strife Onizuka

Moonchild

Join date: 3 Mar 2004

Posts: 5,887

01-28-2007 06:53

Paint.Net
http://www.getpaint.net/index2.html

_____________________

Truth is a river that is always splitting up into arms that reunite. Islanded between the arms, the inhabitants argue for a lifetime as to which is the main river.
- Cyril Connolly

Without the political will to find common ground, the continual friction of tactic and counter tactic, only creates suspicion and hatred and vengeance, and perpetuates the cycle of violence.
- James Nachtwey

Roni Richter

Registered User

Join date: 20 Oct 2006

Posts: 2

02-09-2007 18:49

that gimp link takes u to a mirror list, and from there i go to an ftp download, but from w/in that i'm only seeing two files to download (lots but only two for each version) and the file names are:

gimp-2.3.9.tar.bz2 (14.5M)
gimp-2.3.9.tar.bz2.md5 (1k)

My question is now what do i do w/ these? they aren't exe files, so my computer just gives me that 'Im so confused about this file' window. Is there some other program I need first that will install this or at least know what to do w/ it?

thanks a lot!

SuezanneC Baskerville

Forums Rock!

Join date: 22 Dec 2003

Posts: 14,229

02-09-2007 19:59

You might want to try downloading a Gimp install file and the required GTK+2 file from http://gimp-win.sourceforge.net/stable.html .

There are two zip files there.

_____________________

-

So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them.

I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to

http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne

-

http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03.

Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard,
Robin, and Ryan

-

Roni Richter

Registered User

Join date: 20 Oct 2006

Posts: 2

02-10-2007 00:13

Thank you!

SuezanneC Baskerville

Forums Rock!

Join date: 22 Dec 2003

Posts: 14,229

02-10-2007 00:35

You're welcome.

_____________________

-

So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them.

I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to

http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne

-

http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03.

Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard,
Robin, and Ryan

-

Abba Thiebaud

PerPetUal NoOb

Join date: 20 Aug 2006

Posts: 563

02-10-2007 08:51

I love GIMP. I never played/used Photoshop so I can't testify to it, but PSE I have on my "good" computer just because GIMP doesn't support (at the last time I checked) hyperthreading and I'm not going to turn it off (I'd forget to turn it back on and then gripe about how slow it's running *grin*). GIMP is on my "other" computer so that I can use it for more indepth items such as windows and picture frames (more detail needed).

As for PSE, I'd rather just use MSPaint and be done with it in .jpg form. TGA's are a better graphics file and so what I do on the "good" computer is do the work in Paint, load the .jpg into PSE and convert to .tga. That's really all I use it for any more.

A

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Lee Ponzu

What Would Steve Do?

Join date: 28 Jun 2006

Posts: 1,770

GIMPShop != GIMP

02-10-2007 08:57

Folks, like most programs, the UI for the GIMP is customizable.

GIMPShop is a version (I read) where someone has changed all the key shortcuts and menu items so that GIMP matches PhotoShop as much as possible. I haven't used it, since *I* find PS to be totally mysterious

More about the GIMP. Current release is 2.2. The next release will be called 2.4. There is a release 2.3 which is sort of GIMP FirstLook. 2.4 is somewhat more intuitive (as is 2.3).

Photoshop is the Microsoft of Graphics. GIMP is OpenSource community supported, not commercial.

Lee Ponzu

What Would Steve Do?

Join date: 28 Jun 2006

Posts: 1,770

02-10-2007 08:58

Oh, yeah. I believe that older version of Photoshop are still quite good for SL work. Might be a lot cheaper.

Ylikone Obscure

Amatuer Troll

Join date: 24 Jan 2007

Posts: 335

02-10-2007 19:32

I use the gimp for everything myself, but as someone mentioned above, you may want to check out gimpshop from http://www.gimpshop.net/

It is a reworked, simplified version of gimp for people who are used to a photoshop style interface... and it's still free and still open source. For Windows, Mac and Linux.

Thinkerer Melville

Registered User

Join date: 11 Jul 2005

Posts: 276

Gimp 4 beginners

02-11-2007 07:08

I have a couple of webpages with intro Gimp info. For start up:
http://www.thinkerer.org/Lod/LodGimp101.htm
For alpha channel:
http://www.thinkerer.org/Lod/LodGimpAlpha.htm
Hard to find instructions on alpha channel in Gimp, so that page might be helpful.

Oh BTW, I run Gimp on both my computers. Haven't worried about hyperthreading (on both computers). I guess it runs slower, but I have not noticed that.
TM

Where can i get GIMP Paint shop etc....
wenkinnoc Ackland Registered User Join date: 19 Jan 2007 Posts: 31	01-27-2007 04:55 The various programs mentioned in-world, can they be found only in-world or can they be downloaded elsewhere?
Ordinal Malaprop really very ordinary Join date: 9 Sep 2005 Posts: 4,607	01-27-2007 05:29 www.gimp.org for the GIMP. Other programs tend to require you to buy them. None of them can be found in-world.... _____________________ http://ordinalmalaprop.com/forum/ - visit Ordinal's Scripting Colloquium for scripting discussion with actual working BBCode! http://ordinalmalaprop.com/engine/ - An Engine Fit For My Proceeding, my Aethernet Journal http://www.flickr.com/groups/slgriefbuild/ - Second Life Griefbuild Digest, pictures of horrible ad griefing and land spam, and the naming of names
Chosen Few Alpha Channel Slave Join date: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 7,496	01-27-2007 05:56 There's this newfangled thing I heard about. I heard it's really cool. You just type in what you're looking for and it tells you where to find it. I think it's called Google. Sorry, couldn't resist that one. Since you seem more comfortable asking us than asking Google, here are your answers: As Ordinal pointed out, you can get GIMP for free from www.gimp.org. It's a great program in that it's very powerful, and you can't argue with the price. However, it's also a pretty terrible program in that it pretty much takes all standard established conventions about how a graphics program's interface should work, and tosses them out the window. It's by far the hardest to learn of all the available choices. Photoshop, the industry standard for image editing and creation, can be found at www.adobe.com, or at any local computer store, online retailer, or major office supply store. If you can afford it, I'd highly recommend Photoshop over anything else. Not only will it help you in SL, but proficiency with it is a highly marketable skill that will only be a benefit in whatever job you ever work. Paint Shop Pro, which has gotten quite good in its latest few versions, can be found www.corel.com, at many computer stores, some office supply stores, or your local Walmart. There are a few other alternatives, but those are the big three. Again, I'd recommend Photoshop, hands down, if you can afford it. _____________________ . Land now available for rent in Indigo. Low rates. Quiet, low-lag mainland sim with good neighbors. IM me in-world if you're interested.
Thinkerer Melville Registered User Join date: 11 Jul 2005 Posts: 276	The Gimp 01-27-2007 06:23 From: Chosen Few As Ordinal pointed out, you can get GIMP for free from www.gimp.org. It's a great program in that it's very powerful, and you can't argue with the price. However, it's also a pretty terrible program in that it pretty much takes all standard established conventions about how a graphics program's interface should work, and tosses them out the window. It's by far the hardest to learn of all the available choices. Photoshop, the industry standard for image editing and creation, can be found at www.adobe.com, or at any local computer store, online retailer, or major office supply store. If you can afford it, I'd highly recommend Photoshop over anything else. Not only will it help you in SL, but proficiency with it is a highly marketable skill that will only be a benefit in whatever job you ever work. There are a few other alternatives, but those are the big three. Again, I'd recommend Photoshop, hands down, if you can afford it. If you are already familiar with Photoshop, you will hate The Gimp. It does not follow Photoshop's interface conventions. But if you just want to work with images, you will probably find The Gimp quite adequate. I have some introductory material on my website: http://www.thinkerer.org/Lod/LodGimp101.htm including how to use alpha channel for transparency in The Gimp. I will probably add more if I know what information people want.
SuezanneC Baskerville Forums Rock! Join date: 22 Dec 2003 Posts: 14,229	01-27-2007 06:35 From: Chosen Few There's this newfangled thing I heard about. I heard it's really cool. You just type in what you're looking for and it tells you where to find it. I think it's called Google. . And where do I get one of these Google things at? Corel Photopaint, companion to CorelDraw, is another paint program that can make the type of files that SL wants. Corel.com and a zillion retailers will sell you a copy of Photopaint. I've created a picture or two and brought them into SL, with transparency, using Serif's Photoplus. A free non-current version of Photoplus is available at: http://www.freeserifsoftware.com/software/PhotoPlus . _____________________ - So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them. I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne - http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03. Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard, Robin, and Ryan -
Dp Eros Registered User Join date: 22 Nov 2006 Posts: 66	01-27-2007 08:18 You can try E Bay.
Yumi Murakami DoIt!AttachTheEarOfACat! Join date: 27 Sep 2005 Posts: 6,860	01-27-2007 11:08 I think there's a cut down version of Photoshop called Photoshop Elements that includes most of the things you need in SL. The full Photoshop has things like interfacing code for $3000 professional scanning equipment that most people probably aren't going to use
Chosen Few Alpha Channel Slave Join date: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 7,496	01-27-2007 12:35 From: Yumi Murakami I think there's a cut down version of Photoshop called Photoshop Elements that includes most of the things you need in SL. The full Photoshop has things like interfacing code for $3000 professional scanning equipment that most people probably aren't going to use Photoshop has that, yes, as well as thousands of features that most people do use. Please don't interpret one obscure feature as justification to play down everything else. As for PSE, it will work for SL, but you have to kind of trick it into doing things that it doesn't want to do. It can be done, sure, but it's a little annoying. Don't fall into the trap of thinking PSE is a scaled down version of Photoshop. It's not. It is in fact a completely separate program. It shares a similar interface, and it shares the Photoshop name so that Adobe can sell it more easily, but it's not all the same thing. PS vs. PSE is a pretty good example of how choosing software can differ from choosing other products. Take a Cadillac, remove some features and you have a Chevy. It's not as nice and brag-worthy, but it's basically the same car. Take Photoshop though, remove some features, and you don't end up with Photoshop Elements. You end up with just an earlier version of Photoshop. Again, PSE is a completely separate product. _____________________ . Land now available for rent in Indigo. Low rates. Quiet, low-lag mainland sim with good neighbors. IM me in-world if you're interested.
Ordinal Malaprop really very ordinary Join date: 9 Sep 2005 Posts: 4,607	01-27-2007 15:35 I would like to add at this point that I use the GIMP for everything; I'm not paying that much for Photoshop, I don't use cracked software out of principle, and I find PSE worse than the GIMP. (Come to think of it I could probably get a copy of Photoshop from work, but I don't actually need to.) _____________________ http://ordinalmalaprop.com/forum/ - visit Ordinal's Scripting Colloquium for scripting discussion with actual working BBCode! http://ordinalmalaprop.com/engine/ - An Engine Fit For My Proceeding, my Aethernet Journal http://www.flickr.com/groups/slgriefbuild/ - Second Life Griefbuild Digest, pictures of horrible ad griefing and land spam, and the naming of names
ed44 Gupte Explorer (Retired) Join date: 7 Oct 2005 Posts: 638	01-27-2007 15:41 Ordinal and Thinkerer , you are my hero (in) es. I am slowly getting used to the gimp!
Soen Eber Registered User Join date: 3 Aug 2006 Posts: 428	01-27-2007 23:04 Make sure to check out the free online documentation called "Grokking the GIMP", its very user-friendly and covers just about everything you need. You can also get that book in a dead tree version if that's what you need.
Morwen Bunin Everybody needs a hero! Join date: 8 Dec 2005 Posts: 1,743	01-28-2007 05:44 From: Dp Eros You can try E Bay. E-Bays Google..... Hope it will bring as much as YourTube. Morwen.
Strife Onizuka Moonchild Join date: 3 Mar 2004 Posts: 5,887	01-28-2007 06:53 Paint.Net http://www.getpaint.net/index2.html _____________________ Truth is a river that is always splitting up into arms that reunite. Islanded between the arms, the inhabitants argue for a lifetime as to which is the main river. - Cyril Connolly Without the political will to find common ground, the continual friction of tactic and counter tactic, only creates suspicion and hatred and vengeance, and perpetuates the cycle of violence. - James Nachtwey
Roni Richter Registered User Join date: 20 Oct 2006 Posts: 2	02-09-2007 18:49 that gimp link takes u to a mirror list, and from there i go to an ftp download, but from w/in that i'm only seeing two files to download (lots but only two for each version) and the file names are: gimp-2.3.9.tar.bz2 (14.5M) gimp-2.3.9.tar.bz2.md5 (1k) My question is now what do i do w/ these? they aren't exe files, so my computer just gives me that 'Im so confused about this file' window. Is there some other program I need first that will install this or at least know what to do w/ it? thanks a lot!
SuezanneC Baskerville Forums Rock! Join date: 22 Dec 2003 Posts: 14,229	02-09-2007 19:59 You might want to try downloading a Gimp install file and the required GTK+2 file from http://gimp-win.sourceforge.net/stable.html . There are two zip files there. _____________________ - So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them. I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne - http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03. Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard, Robin, and Ryan -
Roni Richter Registered User Join date: 20 Oct 2006 Posts: 2	02-10-2007 00:13 Thank you!
SuezanneC Baskerville Forums Rock! Join date: 22 Dec 2003 Posts: 14,229	02-10-2007 00:35 You're welcome. _____________________ - So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them. I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne - http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03. Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard, Robin, and Ryan -
Abba Thiebaud PerPetUal NoOb Join date: 20 Aug 2006 Posts: 563	02-10-2007 08:51 I love GIMP. I never played/used Photoshop so I can't testify to it, but PSE I have on my "good" computer just because GIMP doesn't support (at the last time I checked) hyperthreading and I'm not going to turn it off (I'd forget to turn it back on and then gripe about how slow it's running grin). GIMP is on my "other" computer so that I can use it for more indepth items such as windows and picture frames (more detail needed). As for PSE, I'd rather just use MSPaint and be done with it in .jpg form. TGA's are a better graphics file and so what I do on the "good" computer is do the work in Paint, load the .jpg into PSE and convert to .tga. That's really all I use it for any more. A _____________________ http://www.ponystars.com/abbathiebaud Pony Up.
Lee Ponzu What Would Steve Do? Join date: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 1,770	GIMPShop != GIMP 02-10-2007 08:57 Folks, like most programs, the UI for the GIMP is customizable. GIMPShop is a version (I read) where someone has changed all the key shortcuts and menu items so that GIMP matches PhotoShop as much as possible. I haven't used it, since I find PS to be totally mysterious More about the GIMP. Current release is 2.2. The next release will be called 2.4. There is a release 2.3 which is sort of GIMP FirstLook. 2.4 is somewhat more intuitive (as is 2.3). Photoshop is the Microsoft of Graphics. GIMP is OpenSource community supported, not commercial.
Lee Ponzu What Would Steve Do? Join date: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 1,770	02-10-2007 08:58 Oh, yeah. I believe that older version of Photoshop are still quite good for SL work. Might be a lot cheaper.
Ylikone Obscure Amatuer Troll Join date: 24 Jan 2007 Posts: 335	02-10-2007 19:32 I use the gimp for everything myself, but as someone mentioned above, you may want to check out gimpshop from http://www.gimpshop.net/ It is a reworked, simplified version of gimp for people who are used to a photoshop style interface... and it's still free and still open source. For Windows, Mac and Linux.
Thinkerer Melville Registered User Join date: 11 Jul 2005 Posts: 276	Gimp 4 beginners 02-11-2007 07:08 I have a couple of webpages with intro Gimp info. For start up: http://www.thinkerer.org/Lod/LodGimp101.htm For alpha channel: http://www.thinkerer.org/Lod/LodGimpAlpha.htm Hard to find instructions on alpha channel in Gimp, so that page might be helpful. Oh BTW, I run Gimp on both my computers. Haven't worried about hyperthreading (on both computers). I guess it runs slower, but I have not noticed that. TM

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Where can i get GIMP Paint shop etc....