Land Deveopers Tricking People...

I have a issue going on and would like some advice. I really wish we could say names in here however....

I create and sell prefab nightclubs and as of late I have had some land developers who started to buy my clubs, place them on their open land for sale and then attempt to sell the land with the club as a total package. Now this would be fine except for the fact that the rights on all my prefabs are full mod / full copy / no trans. So what was happening was I had married couple who kept doing this then coming back to me asking me to transfer everything and so on to new owners. I did this at first ONLY to be nice and to be fair to the new owner. I then created a land developers version of my clubs. They cost more of course but allows land developers to trans them. Well the same married people tried it again, came back to me with a land buyer AFTER they had been payed and tried to get me to trans again and do all this work for free. I put my foot down and explained to the new owner that I have nothing to do with these land developers and how they should be using our land developers version but they are trying to cut costs by only purchasing the person versions and then tell people they can sell the land and everything when its not possible. So I ended up banning the couple from all my retail locations and decided to give the new land owner a free copy of the club which I did. He said he would pay me and I told him no that these people are making me look bad and it makes me mad because I have nothing to do with them or their business.

So anyway this was about a week ago. Now I get a IM from another person saying they bought some land with my club on it and they could not mod anything and was told by the seller that it was all theirs, the land the club all of it. Again not true unless the land developer bought a land developers version.

I guess what I am asking is what would you do? I have to do a lot of extra FREE work to fix these types of problems because I end up feeling bad for the new land owner and I don't want to get a bad name because of land sellers actions.

Should I just put my foot down and say oh well, you should have checked everything out before buying or continue to fix this stuff for free or what? I try to give the best customer support I can give to my customers and some of these land developers know it and are trying to take advantage of that it seems.

People like this really piss me off. They just take the money and run and leave the good people to clean up the mess. And what really sucks is the fact that you can't say their damn name cause its a TOS violation so I can't even warn anyone to try and stop some of it. I am going to post their names on my own web site later this morning in my company forums under the fraud section. If its my site I don't see how that can be a TOS violation then. (www.voodoo-designs.com) Maybe that will help... I don't know.

Any advise on what I should do?

Thanks.... Just needed to vent

Edit: I misread something.

Voodoo, I applaud you trying to help those out that get screwed However, from a business point of view ya just gotta tell them sorry, delete the club and start your own build. As for those that are being asses and doing this to people, besides baning them from your store i dunno what else you can do =\

I think what I am going to do to help cover my own butt is create a master list database of who is authorized land developers with us for people to check BEFORE buying land. If they don't check well at least I had a tool in place to help them.

This would at least make me feel better in the long run that I am doing something to try and help protect some of these buyers.

A very good idea

VooDoo, I really applaud your readiness to go out of yor way to help those people who got screwed. But let's face it: You invested a lot of effort in building your clubs and you are entitled to some compensation if other people are using them.

Before I buy some land I can (and should) check whether all objects on the land belong to the land owner himself. If they don't, they don't transfer. So to a certain extent the land buyer is not completely clueless, if he takes the time to check things out beforehand.

Therefore I think that you will have to stand fast here sooner or later.

And I agree: It's a d*mn shame that this does not seem to be covered by the TOS!

Well, that's SL for you, I guess. The Wild West is a bed of roses in comparison; but didn't we know that before?

One possibility I can see is a "Land seller setup" where you'd sell the land people certificates that could be included in a land sale and then redeemed by the land buyers for a building from your store; that would solve the whole transfer issue.

And maybe bring you more business too if the idea becomes popular?

He has a land developers version already that's not the problem here.

THE PROBLEM is these people are not buying the land dev version and attempting to pass off the one owner version as a "deal" for a new land buyer.

(edited - by the time i'd finished writing this the thread had moved on...)

As regards the OP, I think you should just explain to people who contact you that the version of the club is not resellable - you do have a resellable verions and you have been in contact with these people about it but they have refused to buy the resellable version and have been conning a number of other people. Perhaps offer them a 10% discount or something on a new club but explain that your business is also suffering as a result of these con-people.

I think Matthew's suggestion is best. Apologize for the problem, explain what is happening, and offer a discount.

The issue is more one of how land and objects are seen. Ideally when people are viewing land they'd be able to see themselves what objects aren't transferrable. Then they'd know before they bought the land that even though objects are being sold with the land they'll never have the rights to them.

This would mean the prospective land buyers would be taking up these points with land sellers before the purchase.

Well, I know ONE way to fix the problem...

// Replace names below with real name(s) -- KEEP IN UPPER CASE!!!
list bad_land_agents = ["ANDREW JACKSON","MILLARD FILLMORE"];

default {
    on_rez(integer start_param) {
        string sOwner = llToUpper(llKey2Name(llGetOwner()));
        if (llListFindList(bad_land_agents, [sOwner]) > -1) {
            llSay (0, "SORRY " + sOwner + " BUT YOU'RE DONE RIPPING PEOPLE OFF WITH ***MY*** CLUB!!!");
            llDie();  // this makes the club go *poof*
        }
    }
}

Drop this code into your nightclub after modifying bad_land_agents with the names for the offending land agents, and all you need to worry about is deciding how long to wait until you refund their money.

Its alsp possible to script an object to detect when it changes ownership, but in this case all that would do is tell the new owner he's just been screwed.

---

EDIT: I fixed the code so it works now. Just change the names in bad_land_agents; the names there now are just placeholders (they're actually U.S. Presidents who signed Indian land treties).

An excellent idea Soen (nice coding on the fly too hehe)

Another solution is to charge the new owners the difference between the single owner club and land developer club.

I am sure (in theory) the new landowners would have recourse to seek a refund in this payment from the land developer as they were mis-sold the property.

since they are aware of this, i think an Abuse Report is certainly an option ...?

Off the top of my head Im thinking you could have a sign in each of your shops stating "THESE BUILDS CAN 'NOT' BE TRANSFERED OR SOLD ALONG WITH A LAND SALE" make them prominent and also include a note card with the building stating the same thing. If you do get a msg from a person, who thought the build came with the land they bought simply make them aware of your signs in your shops and the notecard with the building. Then I would simply tell them that they should contact the land seller for a replacement or a monetary refund for the cost of the build.
This should remove them thinking you of as the 'bad guy' and transfer the blame to those who deserve it.

I don't really have a solution except maybe an AR (though I'm not sure if LL will do anything about it since they wash their hands of dealings between residents). But, I've noticed almost everything mentioned so far involves additional work, effort, time and accounting.........for free. How is that right? Voodoo has done his/her part in good faith and even gone out of his/her way to make it right for the innocent purchaser.........that's customer service, by the way (excellent customer service, too ). It's like the recurring lost inventory problems.......get the creator to make it right. There's a problem when the TOS does not address fraud or cheating. There needs to be a way for the dishonest to be exposed. But that would require LL to do something....like "police" their product (and we all know how that would be recieved by a vocal minority of residents).

Only other thought I have is for the potetial buyer to be able to see in the "about land" menu what is transferable and what is not before the purchase. But as far as I can see that is not possible if you are not already the owner.

Good job Voodoo of customer service...........Linden Labs needs to follow your lead.

I'd Abuse Report this. Over and over.

"Linden Lab has the right but not the obligation to resolve disputes between users of Second Life"

The land sellers that do this, do not only do it you.

I met a woman last nite who paid over 200USD for 1024 plot, only becuase the sell said it came with 'everything' on it....of course it was all no trans so she got a nice expensive plot of land



Buyers Be Aware! Never buy land for what is ON IT only for the fact it IS LAND


Anything that is on it can be rebuilt or repurchases but dont spend more on land just cuz it has 'buildings' on it

Voodoo, very nice site! Couldn't find the name of the offenders though. Could you post so the rest of us can boycott them please.

We need some sort of fraud central to track people like these.

Again, very nice site, makes me want to see your builds.

If you continue to fix the problems these people have caused, you are actually enabling them to continue their fraud.

Because if you continue to fix the problems for free, the land developers will know this, and they will continue to go right on doing it, because you get stuck with all the work, and there are no bad consequences it in for them. They will continue to abuse your good nature until you put a stop to it.

I understand that you feel bad for the people who got ripped off and want to help them out - offering a discount on a new club purchase from you is a nice way to do this, rather than putting in all kinds of work and fixing everything for free.

What you should do is offer your sympathy to the people who got ripped off by explaining to them that these developers do this frequently and you are not associated with them, and in fact you are a victim of their scheme as well. Offer them a discount on a future purchase, recommend that they file an abuse report against the developers for misleading them, and file an abuse report yourself.

And yes, do post their names on your personal website, and on every forum that allows you to name names. Every little bit helps - you may be able to help prevent someone from getting ripped off in the future by doing this.