Opinions Please

Ok, bear with me this could be long &/or confusing lol

A friend of mine is renting a corner parcel & has banlines up, it's 1/4 of the sim in size. Anyway he gets an IM from someone claiming to be sim security & saying that he needs to be added as it's my friends name showing as blocking him (Security) in the system & he doesn't have L$20,000 for the hud to allow him access.

My friend speaks to the landlady, thinking security man must be a griefer. Turns out the landlady can't patrol all the sim now for griefer scripts & bugs so has asked her club security to do it instead & therefore needs him added to the banlines access list.

My friend said no chance, if someones going to take the trouble to get through the banlines & the no scripts function on the parcel, he feels special, besides, there'd be no point in anyone trying to put bugs & that where he is. He said to me he's suprised security don't know what banlines are & that if the security guy tells him what he uses to track these bugs he'll get it & do the job himself.

If it was me & I needed to speak to someone about security, i'd've IM'd something like "Hi sorry to bother ya =) I work for x as security at their club & have been asked to keep an eye on the sim & check for bugs & griefer scripts, I need to access your parcel to check there, could you please add me to the access list? I understand you'll want to contact the owner first to check"

Or something like that. What he got was Yeah i'm SIM security & you need to add me. Friend is like add you to? Security is all it's your name on the system stopping me & I don't have the L$20,000 for the hud to access it. Nothing about WHY he needed too or anything.

I guess what we want to know is would a griefer even bother to go to the effort to put their bugs etc there, when 99% of the time there's nobody even on the parcel? I know griefers will do anything, but it doesn't make sense to me, maybe someone else has thoughts on it. Also, is it reasonable to want an unknown security guy who doesn't seem to have manners or intelligence to not be able to come & go as & when he pleases without warning?

I think the security guys attitude rubbed him up the wrong way, but also can't see the need for it & want privacy though he knows that's impossible in sl! If the guy IM'd first it'd be ok, but he's not happy about him coming & going as he likes, especially if there's friends, g-f etc round. Sorry to ramble, anyone with experience of if the landladys right to be so concerned, nothing shows on my friends scanners or whatever he has

It's very simple: Do what the **landlady** says. The security service is there for your friend's and the sim's protection. It does not matter that you have all this protection - if one of the landowner's friends is the griefer (it happens), security should have the right to enter the land. Now, I don't know what system takes 20k L to merely access and update the list - that sounds more than ridiculous and I have no clue what you are talking about. But regardless, quit focusing on the security guy and do what the landlady says should be done.

I'm not sure what hud costs L$20,000 either, apparently it's so security can get through the banlines if not added. He says he has access to every parcel, yet he doesn't, he's not on anyone elses list either lol. The reason he & I & other friends object, yes I do too lol is because of privacy issues. He has no problem with it if the guy IM's first or comes when he's offline, but if he's online, wanting privacy, he doesn't want some strange guy walking around all over the place, doing what he could do anyway. Thanks for replying =)

*Edited to add, surely if the security guy needs to check the parcel, he'd need to check inside the house too? If someone takes the time to go through banlines, an orb, a few security toys that boot & stuff & the no scripts function, he could get through locked doors. So a griefer could put their things in the house too? (I might have this wrong) it's as pointless for them to put anything in the house as it is the land. NO WAY does he want people in his house uninvited let alone the land. I see his point, I agree, I'd hate it on my own*

if she wanted some 1 doing security, she`d have given them estate manager access to ban ppl off the islands

the hud is a tool to connect to a prim rezzed by the land owner so anyone with that hud can access land controls, trading 1 griefer for another griefer&co

wth is with patrolling the islands?
if there is a griefer, u get a msg from a tenant pritty damn fast and takes 20seconds to ban and 3-4 minutes to chat with the person who reported if busy

ban access on islands = pointless and ur not paying for other ppl`s prims for security when u have ban lines up anyway, it`s more pontless then u can make a point pointless as every one is denied so defenetly no need for outside "help"

from this side says, ur landlord isn`t the smartest 1 around and have extorsionists(sp) on payroll

I agree, he's paying L$10,000 a week for privacy only, well as much privacyy as you can get in sl lol, the point of the corner parcel & the extra room at the side is so people don't get too close, never had a griefer yet on there & sure don't see the need for some 'security', he couldn't care less if there's bugs or not, they wouldn't catch anything interesting, for the sim they'd be closer to whoever they wanna bug i'da thought

I, myself, run security for several sims in SL. I don't advertise as I am the only person in my "buisness". I do help anyone set up security and offer advice. I mention this not to boast, or advertise, but so you know where my experiance comes from. Well over a year of doing SL security that absolutly falls within the ToS. Which is why I am the only person. I can't do background checks in SL *snickers*

A) 20,000L$ for a security HUD. This "security" is either getting ripped off, or boasting his own ego, or made a typo. 2,000 will get you the best on the market, with multiple sim/parcel interface, as well as remote sim-to-sim access of Ban/Eject/Unsit features.

B) Estate Manager may be good for some, but not all. I prefer NOT to have it because this allows for that person to do ANYTHING short of selling the sim. Obviously this should only be given to those the sim owner trusts completely. I stress that a person really should know the other in RL (usually a spouse) before thinking about Estate Manager tools.

C) I'm taking for granted the sim owner has done the normal, intelligent thing and sliced up the island into seperate parcels and alloted each to a sperate Group. This allows for deeding of objects to the people renting, as well as allows the sim owner to retain complete controll of the parcel(s) by being the owner of the Group as well as the sim. Seperate Groups also makes prim management a snap.

With this aspect, the sim owner simply creates a new Role in each Group named (drumroll please) "Security" and ads whomever they hire/place as security. Not only does this give the sim owner controll over who is, or is not, security, but gives the security personel exactly what tools they need to do their jobs. (HUDs are not needed, just nicer for remote controll and for quicker response times.)

An added bonus is that all renters will know who is, or is not, actual security, as all they have to do is go into the Group info and check. Saying you're security and not on the list? Eject/Ban/Mute/AbuseReport.

D) Rules/Regulations, intelligence, and knowing every nuance of the system are the best tools in security's arsonal.

~Jessy

As said, I am affraid you have to do what the landlady told you. But in my opinion this should have been told you *before* you even agreed to rent the land.

Here one of the reasons I stay on the mainland. No one (apart from Linden) will tell me what I can do or cannot do on my land. There is only person in controle: me... and some people of who I decide the should have the needed rights (my RL partner and a good RL friend).

Morwen.

It could be that the 'security' person is employed to watch over what you are doing! You could be running a child porn ring, or multiple scripts that are causing lag on the sim etc.

Or have a RL hard drugs organisation that meets in SL.... or you sell RL stolen cars through SL...

Sorry, your example is just one step too far... and no matter of "security" person of a Sim, but that is something for Linden. Your example will not done very openly and will need deep going investigation. No task for a "normal SL member" (even a security person of a sim is nothing more then that). I think no person has the right to look through "my things" to see what I am doing, except Linden....

Morwen.

newbs an their ban lines,sheesh Seriously though, about the same can be accomplished by just setting the parcel to group build, group scripts, etc

It's not like someone can steal your stuff anyways, lol.

And as for privacy, there is none, anyone can cam the entire sim(or farther).

My rant is done here, carry on

Thanks everyone for the input & Jessy in particular for the insight. Neither myself or my mate are new to sl, he hates banlines as much as the next person but they're up as the parcels on the corner he didn't think it'd inconvenience anyone too much & cause it's a big parcel I think. We know nobody can take anything, it's mainly to keep out the people who do like to try griefing, or pestering, running around with their sl prim d**** << can we say that? lol out etc .. I know there's freeze/eject/ban .. but he doesn't wanna be bothering with that & the IM's to follow with why was I banned etc etc. Just to be left alone in peace lol

Thanks Jessica for the post & insight, it made good reading & it's good to see it from the other side. The sim is divided up into parcels yes, there's one group which everyone belongs too including Mr Security. I see what someone else says about the owners wanting to check on us, that's an interesting thought =) But then the owner is on the access list & the keyholder list to the doors & is welcome anytime, he does have lots of scripted things which the landlady is aware of & he has said to her to let him know if they cause lag or other problems at all

He's now spoken to the landlady & said he's willing to get whatever 'security' are using & scan it himself, or she can & she's accepted it. Just one thing I thought of, if someone did put down some listener, wouldn't it show as an item on the parcel NOT deeded to the group? ALL of his are deeded to the group, there's nothing on there that isn't, no object entry, no build are for all, no scripts for all but group.

Thanks so much all i've passed bits on to him, I find it all interesting too, hence posting so much lol now if anyone knows of something that works in no push areas to cage people, please tell lol I know it's not good, but sometimes ya just feel the need , thanks again all

Yes, but some idiot using a cam is a little different than the same idiot standing by the bed making comments. Ban lines are just like putting a fence up around your RL property.

Actually, you missed the perspective of my post, it was a mirror reflection of the orginal post, simply put, the estate manager maybe being proactive in making sure that the residents so break TOS and protecting their interests. No slander etc intended.

If your Ban lines are sufficient to prevent the "security" person from doing his "Job" then it is also sufficient to prevent any griefer from griefing, therefore the security person is unnecesary.
IF the Landlady REALLY wants him there, on All the parcels within the property she can:

A: Grant him estate permissions

or

B: Pony up the $20K lindens he needs for the HUD

And if she Insists on having him enter your section, since it wasn't in the original renters agreement, she can Knock off ten percent of your rent for the continuous invasion of the privacy you naturally assumed you would have when you rented from her in the first place.

She Should have messaged All of her tenents to let them know she had taken these measures BEFORE the "Security" showed up demanding property rights.

Angel.

wow

First of all theres nothing sillier than "Club Security" in Second Life. Just give eject and ban powers to all the employees and manage your employees instead.

Secondly any setup that requires $80 US to give people access is insane. Its straightjacket padded room level insanity.

I think your friend should demand a refund and move.

they can still im the comments to ya while cammin in from another sim

the landlady should have told you about this upfront, and if you do refuse to comply you risk losing all you invested there.

Another good reason to NEVER goto a private island estate

Good post Angel, this is making me see things all differently & making me think! Thinkings dangerous for me. So, on the mainland how is it different? I myself rent on an island but it's themed & none of this hassle. All I hear is that the mainland is laggy. Someone please tell me the advantages =)

If the island is set to auto-return, there is no possible way to set down a "bug" for longer than the auto-return time.

And yes, the object would show up on the About Land>>>Objects tab. It will even give you the person's name, no matter how well "cloaked" the prim is (many "spy prims" say they "cloak" and "resize/rename" to prevent detection. Impossible to completely hide. Just makes it difficult.)

Renting, either islnd or mainlan has the same downsides. You do not own the land, and you must follow, not only all of LL's rules, but those of the landlord's. Island rental can be more controlled by the landlord, however. Estate Tools allow for a much more detailed control on certain aspects. These aspects are rather minor, however, so, imo, the differences are moot.

Lag is a fact of life in SL. Islands claim less lag because they don't have any child sims (touching sims) that need to be rendered as well. Islands also (usually) take a bit more care in watching what is on the land as they own it. One bad neighbor can make your island a piece of hell.

Same with the mainland.

The only difference is who you make complaints to. On an island, it's the landlord. Usually a faster result. Mainland, you have to file an AR/SupportTicket with LL. LL will investigate extreme lag-inducing items, but for the most part, leave the sims alone until/unless they impact the sim performance as a whole.

Reguardless, where you chose to live is up to yoruself. Neighbors come and go, lag rises and falls. Want complete controll? Taht means buying your own island.

I've rented before. Had a very nice landlord who was very helpful on all things. Left on good terms. I now own my own plot. I bought my land and pay tier for the bit more controll on my land. I could prolly have more land renting for teh same price I pay tier for, but I prefer the peace of mind of knowing it's mine.

Own/Rent, Island/Mainland. Small differences, but mostly just a matter of desire.

~Jessy

Thanks jessy for taking time to post that & for the info, it's appreciated =)

I'm a mainlander for life. Banlines at your choice and no one can say boo about it. (Which I don't have, but I like the *option*.) I also like dealing with Linden Labs directly. Sure they're slow- but I'm low maintenance really. I know how to ban/eject/return other peoples junk and keep an eye on my land daily for troubles. You don't have to worry about an estate owner going belly up and leaving you without a plot, don't have to worry about being evicted unless it's a SL wide change to ToS. If you're looking for a plot of land that no one but Linden Labs can enter or mess with- mainland really is the way to go.

Downsides are that your neighbors will probably have ugly builds, you'll probably have to get used to ad farmers, and there's the chance that some casino will open up next door and lag you. If you're looking at quarter of sim or more in real estate though, that's less land in your sim available for purchase by said casino. I personally own several snippets of property scattered through my home sim- not massive (I buy out ad farmers.) but enough to make it more difficult to set up a huge unbroken area for a lag monster.

It's really not that bad. Sure I've got a spinning for sale sign in my front lawn... but I also had the ability to leave my shop in it's hideous half finished state for a few weeks while I was out of town without the estate manager getting cranky =P.

Thinking is not dangerous for me.... I live by it.

Some advantages to the mainland?

Here we go.... The overdone story of lag. In my sim there is close to no lag. I only lag at places as the welcome areas (lots and lots of people in one sim).

The mainland gives me complete control over my land. Only Linden can interfere with that. If I decide to make my logcabin yellow, I can do that.... (I used purple already earlier today... and no, I would never do something like that. It is a example).

If I dislike you, I ban you.... If I really, really like you, I give you extra rights (no discusion here if that would be clever or not). No landlord/landladies to interfere with that.

I don't have to give access to people I don't know for security reasons because the landlord/landlady demands so....

I am not infleunced by the RL problems of a landlord/landladies which make him/her to leave SL and leave me behind with nothing.

I am not subject to a landlord/landlady who doesn't like me for whatever reason and can dumb me like that... and even delete my belongings if he/she wishes so.

(And no, I don't say all landlords/landies are like that.... but some are).

Just some examples (I could mention more) why mainland beats for me renting in every way.... and yes. it well worth my monthly tier....

Morwen.

I must say that sounds good Morwen thanks. I may go look at some mainland parcels & look into it more, you make it sound much better than I heard!