Second Life Forums Archive - "You can not make an object both NO COPY and NO TRANSFER."

Poppet McGimsie

Proprietrix, WUNDERBAR

Join date: 28 Jul 2006

Posts: 197

10-14-2006 08:37

From: someone

That said, here is the reason for no-mod's behavior - a historical design philosophy of the permissions system. One philosophy behind the permission system was to give BOTH the creator AND the owner some rights to the objects. This is manifest primarily in 2 places. You can not make an object both NO COPY and NO TRANSFER. This means an owner always has the right to either make copies or give the item away, sometimes both but never neither. The creator has the right to choose which they can do.

from /139/07/107641/1.html

Is this (stil) true? When I set the permissions on an object, and I click "modify" it seems that I do not HAVE to select either "copy" or "transfer." If I select "copy" then the transfer box lights up, and I can deselect "transfer" if I choose.

If I don't select "copy" then the object will have neither copy NOR transfer permissions -- that is, it will be both NO COPY and NO TRANSFER. At least, that's what I thought!

Am I wrong? Have things changed? Getting very confused about permissions!

Dr Tardis

Registered User

Join date: 3 Nov 2005

Posts: 426

10-14-2006 08:54

You're correct. There are 3 basic permissions: copy, transfer, and modify. You should allow the user to have one of those three permissions. An object can be modify and be neither copy or transfer.

What's not allowed is to make an object have none of the three permissions.

Kim Manilow

total spaz

Join date: 8 Jun 2004

Posts: 154

10-14-2006 08:59

Nope, it is easy to make no copy/no mod/no trans items. I have posted about it before.

_____________________

Poppet McGimsie

Proprietrix, WUNDERBAR

Join date: 28 Jul 2006

Posts: 197

10-14-2006 09:04

It seems that not all combinations are possible though: you can have

mod copy transfer
+ + +
- - -

and you can have

+ + -

But can you have

+ - +

Or

- - +

?

In any case, it seems that it just isn't true that "an item cannot be both no copy and no transfer" since no mod/no copy/no transfer is possible,

Llauren Mandelbrot

Twenty-Four Weeks Old.

Join date: 26 Apr 2006

Posts: 665

10-14-2006 09:37

From: Poppet McGimsie

Is this (stil) true? When I set the permissions on an object, and I click "modify" it seems that I do not HAVE to select either "copy" or "transfer." If I select "copy" then the transfer box lights up, and I can deselect "transfer" if I choose.

If I don't select "copy" then the object will have neither copy NOR transfer permissions -- that is, it will be both NO COPY and NO TRANSFER. At least, that's what I thought!

Am I wrong? Have things changed? Getting very confused about permissions!

What you quoted is current. It is supposed to be true. If you look closely at the object editor, you will note that the Transfer permission is ENabled even though the Transfer checkbox is DISabled. This means that you cannot disable Transfer without enabling Copy.

As stated in some previous posts, however, while it is not possible to create NoCopy-NoTrans directly, there are ways of synthesizing these permissions.

Lindy Lovell

Registered User

Join date: 6 Oct 2006

Posts: 3

10-14-2006 10:27

From: Dr Tardis

You're correct. There are 3 basic permissions: copy, transfer, and modify. You should allow the user to have one of those three permissions. An object can be modify and be neither copy or transfer.

What's not allowed is to make an object have none of the three permissions.

You can definitely make an item no copy/no modify/no transfer.

Just yesterday I purchased a new aircraft that had NO permissions.

I was very surprised to see that the plane was No Copy so I requested the builder give me copy rights cuz flying an aircraft in SL these days you frequently get separated from your plane when trying to cross a SIM or when getting caught on a security fence and it can happen by fluke that the plane will not be returned to your L&F.

Curiously, the builder had a great deal of difficulty removing the No Copy restriction from his build, but was ultimately succssesful in doing so, which again proves the old adage:
"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking until you do suck seed" ;-O

In any event, I still have the No Copy, No Mod, No Transfer version in my inventory should someone require proof of this.

ADDED: I am aware of the post by Katherine Linden to the contray.

Lindy

Poppet McGimsie

Proprietrix, WUNDERBAR

Join date: 28 Jul 2006

Posts: 197

10-14-2006 10:28

From: Llauren Mandelbrot

What you quoted is current. It is supposed to be true. If you look closely at the object editor, you will note that the Transfer permission is ENabled even though the Transfer checkbox is DISabled. This means that you cannot disable Transfer without enabling Copy.

As stated in some previous posts, however, while it is not possible to create NoCopy-NoTrans directly, there are ways of synthesizing these permissions.

This makes sense. So the "default" state is not "no mod/no copy/no transfer" but rather (if you don't check anything at all) "no mod/ no copy/ transfer"? If so then the only way to make things non-transferable is to set new permissions, right? So if you rez and object and don't change the permissions, it is no mod/ no copy / transfer?

Yumi Murakami

DoIt!AttachTheEarOfACat!

Join date: 27 Sep 2005

Posts: 6,860

10-14-2006 11:14

From: Lindy Lovell

You can definitely make an item no copy/no modify/no transfer.

You can make an item no-copy, then put a no-transfer object inside it.

This will make the overall item no-copy no-transfer - but you can remove the internal object and restore it to plain no-copy.

Llauren Mandelbrot

Twenty-Four Weeks Old.

Join date: 26 Apr 2006

Posts: 665

10-14-2006 11:21

From: Poppet McGimsie

This makes sense. So the "default" state is not "no mod/no copy/no transfer" but rather (if you don't check anything at all) "no mod/ no copy/ transfer"? If so then the only way to make things non-transferable is to set new permissions, right? So if you rez and object and don't change the permissions, it is no mod/ no copy / transfer?

As near as I can recall, the default permissions for the next owner are Copy/Mod/Trans....or at least used to be. I`m confused, now, with this [new?] "ghosted" Transfer Checkbox behavior. If I were in-world now, I could check. I will check, when I do get in-world.

Whimsycallie Pegler

Registered User

Join date: 28 Apr 2006

Posts: 1,003

10-14-2006 11:29

Probably part of the latest glitches.

Llauren Mandelbrot

Twenty-Four Weeks Old.

Join date: 26 Apr 2006

Posts: 665

Default Permissions: Verified

10-17-2006 12:19

From: Llauren Mandelbrot

From: Poppet McGimsie

This makes sense. So the "default" state is not "no mod/no copy/no transfer" but rather (if you don't check anything at all) "no mod/ no copy/ transfer"? If so then the only way to make things non-transferable is to set new permissions, right? So if you rez and object and don't change the permissions, it is no mod/ no copy / transfer?

As near as I can recall, the default permissions for the next owner are Copy/Mod/Trans....or at least used to be. I`m confused, now, with this [new?] "ghosted" Transfer Checkbox behavior. If I were in-world now, I could check. I will check, when I do get in-world.

I have now tested this, and Poppet McGimsie is correct: the default Next Owner permissions are currently NoCopy,NoMod,Trans. When did this change?

Earl Zabibha

Registered User

Join date: 22 Aug 2006

Posts: 158

10-17-2006 12:26

Then how is it when I have something that says NO COPY I end up with another copy of it when I drag it out and then when I click TAKE I have 2 of them now? am I able to give one away?

Llauren Mandelbrot

Twenty-Four Weeks Old.

Join date: 26 Apr 2006

Posts: 665

Show-Stopper Bug!

10-17-2006 13:42

From: Earl Zabibha

Then how is it when I have something that says NO COPY I end up with another copy of it when I drag it out and then when I click TAKE I have 2 of them now?

That`s an entirely different issue. It is a bug,

and a serious bug, at that.

Please report it as such. Under discussion here are the permissions that the next owner gets, and why, not what we can do with various permissions settings that others give us.

MenuBar Memorial

WaterMoon Artist

Join date: 20 Nov 2005

Posts: 214

no copy toggles off

10-18-2006 13:33

I made a simple object for a friend the other day. He tries it out and the COPYABLE object inside it was miraculously NO COPY/NO MOD/NO XFER.

I gave him a new one and as I passed the COPYABLE object to him it became NO COPY.

I tried again - this time the SCRIPT inside the object turned to NO COPY and vanished from copies he made.

Seems to me the COPY permission is fuxored.

Anybody else notice anything new like this?

Takuan Daikon

choppy choppy!

Join date: 22 Jun 2006

Posts: 305

10-18-2006 13:58

From: MenuBar Memorial

Seems to me the COPY permission is fuxored.

Anybody else notice anything new like this?

Oh, yeah. Constantly. I shall have to remember that word, it's so wonderfully descriptive

Anya Ristow

Vengeance Studio

Join date: 21 Sep 2006

Posts: 1,243

10-18-2006 14:46

From: Earl Zabibha

Then how is it when I have something that says NO COPY I end up with another copy of it when I drag it out and then when I click TAKE I have 2 of them now? am I able to give one away?

I've seen this with boxed items and I think it's only the box and copyable items in it (the card, the landmark) that get copied after I've moved the "good stuff" to my inventory. I don't think the non-copyable contents get duplicated.

"You can not make an object both NO COPY and NO TRANSFER."
Poppet McGimsie Proprietrix, WUNDERBAR Join date: 28 Jul 2006 Posts: 197	10-14-2006 08:37 From: someone That said, here is the reason for no-mod's behavior - a historical design philosophy of the permissions system. One philosophy behind the permission system was to give BOTH the creator AND the owner some rights to the objects. This is manifest primarily in 2 places. You can not make an object both NO COPY and NO TRANSFER. This means an owner always has the right to either make copies or give the item away, sometimes both but never neither. The creator has the right to choose which they can do. from /139/07/107641/1.html Is this (stil) true? When I set the permissions on an object, and I click "modify" it seems that I do not HAVE to select either "copy" or "transfer." If I select "copy" then the transfer box lights up, and I can deselect "transfer" if I choose. If I don't select "copy" then the object will have neither copy NOR transfer permissions -- that is, it will be both NO COPY and NO TRANSFER. At least, that's what I thought! Am I wrong? Have things changed? Getting very confused about permissions!
Dr Tardis Registered User Join date: 3 Nov 2005 Posts: 426	10-14-2006 08:54 You're correct. There are 3 basic permissions: copy, transfer, and modify. You should allow the user to have one of those three permissions. An object can be modify and be neither copy or transfer. What's not allowed is to make an object have none of the three permissions.
Kim Manilow total spaz Join date: 8 Jun 2004 Posts: 154	10-14-2006 08:59 Nope, it is easy to make no copy/no mod/no trans items. I have posted about it before. _____________________
Poppet McGimsie Proprietrix, WUNDERBAR Join date: 28 Jul 2006 Posts: 197	10-14-2006 09:04 It seems that not all combinations are possible though: you can have mod copy transfer + + + - - - and you can have + + - But can you have + - + Or - - + ? In any case, it seems that it just isn't true that "an item cannot be both no copy and no transfer" since no mod/no copy/no transfer is possible,
Llauren Mandelbrot Twenty-Four Weeks Old. Join date: 26 Apr 2006 Posts: 665	10-14-2006 09:37 From: Poppet McGimsie Is this (stil) true? When I set the permissions on an object, and I click "modify" it seems that I do not HAVE to select either "copy" or "transfer." If I select "copy" then the transfer box lights up, and I can deselect "transfer" if I choose. If I don't select "copy" then the object will have neither copy NOR transfer permissions -- that is, it will be both NO COPY and NO TRANSFER. At least, that's what I thought! Am I wrong? Have things changed? Getting very confused about permissions! What you quoted is current. It is supposed to be true. If you look closely at the object editor, you will note that the Transfer permission is ENabled even though the Transfer checkbox is DISabled. This means that you cannot disable Transfer without enabling Copy. As stated in some previous posts, however, while it is not possible to create NoCopy-NoTrans directly, there are ways of synthesizing these permissions.
Lindy Lovell Registered User Join date: 6 Oct 2006 Posts: 3	10-14-2006 10:27 From: Dr Tardis You're correct. There are 3 basic permissions: copy, transfer, and modify. You should allow the user to have one of those three permissions. An object can be modify and be neither copy or transfer. What's not allowed is to make an object have none of the three permissions. You can definitely make an item no copy/no modify/no transfer. Just yesterday I purchased a new aircraft that had NO permissions. I was very surprised to see that the plane was No Copy so I requested the builder give me copy rights cuz flying an aircraft in SL these days you frequently get separated from your plane when trying to cross a SIM or when getting caught on a security fence and it can happen by fluke that the plane will not be returned to your L&F. Curiously, the builder had a great deal of difficulty removing the No Copy restriction from his build, but was ultimately succssesful in doing so, which again proves the old adage: "If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking until you do suck seed" ;-O In any event, I still have the No Copy, No Mod, No Transfer version in my inventory should someone require proof of this. ADDED: I am aware of the post by Katherine Linden to the contray. Lindy
Poppet McGimsie Proprietrix, WUNDERBAR Join date: 28 Jul 2006 Posts: 197	10-14-2006 10:28 From: Llauren Mandelbrot What you quoted is current. It is supposed to be true. If you look closely at the object editor, you will note that the Transfer permission is ENabled even though the Transfer checkbox is DISabled. This means that you cannot disable Transfer without enabling Copy. As stated in some previous posts, however, while it is not possible to create NoCopy-NoTrans directly, there are ways of synthesizing these permissions. This makes sense. So the "default" state is not "no mod/no copy/no transfer" but rather (if you don't check anything at all) "no mod/ no copy/ transfer"? If so then the only way to make things non-transferable is to set new permissions, right? So if you rez and object and don't change the permissions, it is no mod/ no copy / transfer?
Yumi Murakami DoIt!AttachTheEarOfACat! Join date: 27 Sep 2005 Posts: 6,860	10-14-2006 11:14 From: Lindy Lovell You can definitely make an item no copy/no modify/no transfer. You can make an item no-copy, then put a no-transfer object inside it. This will make the overall item no-copy no-transfer - but you can remove the internal object and restore it to plain no-copy.
Llauren Mandelbrot Twenty-Four Weeks Old. Join date: 26 Apr 2006 Posts: 665	10-14-2006 11:21 From: Poppet McGimsie This makes sense. So the "default" state is not "no mod/no copy/no transfer" but rather (if you don't check anything at all) "no mod/ no copy/ transfer"? If so then the only way to make things non-transferable is to set new permissions, right? So if you rez and object and don't change the permissions, it is no mod/ no copy / transfer? As near as I can recall, the default permissions for the next owner are Copy/Mod/Trans....or at least used to be. I`m confused, now, with this [new?] "ghosted" Transfer Checkbox behavior. If I were in-world now, I could check. I will check, when I do get in-world.
Whimsycallie Pegler Registered User Join date: 28 Apr 2006 Posts: 1,003	10-14-2006 11:29 Probably part of the latest glitches.
Llauren Mandelbrot Twenty-Four Weeks Old. Join date: 26 Apr 2006 Posts: 665	Default Permissions: Verified 10-17-2006 12:19 From: Llauren Mandelbrot From: Poppet McGimsie This makes sense. So the "default" state is not "no mod/no copy/no transfer" but rather (if you don't check anything at all) "no mod/ no copy/ transfer"? If so then the only way to make things non-transferable is to set new permissions, right? So if you rez and object and don't change the permissions, it is no mod/ no copy / transfer? As near as I can recall, the default permissions for the next owner are Copy/Mod/Trans....or at least used to be. I`m confused, now, with this [new?] "ghosted" Transfer Checkbox behavior. If I were in-world now, I could check. I will check, when I do get in-world. I have now tested this, and Poppet McGimsie is correct: the default Next Owner permissions are currently NoCopy,NoMod,Trans. When did this change?
Earl Zabibha Registered User Join date: 22 Aug 2006 Posts: 158	10-17-2006 12:26 Then how is it when I have something that says NO COPY I end up with another copy of it when I drag it out and then when I click TAKE I have 2 of them now? am I able to give one away?
Llauren Mandelbrot Twenty-Four Weeks Old. Join date: 26 Apr 2006 Posts: 665	Show-Stopper Bug! 10-17-2006 13:42 From: Earl Zabibha Then how is it when I have something that says NO COPY I end up with another copy of it when I drag it out and then when I click TAKE I have 2 of them now? That`s an entirely different issue. It is a bug, and a serious bug, at that. Please report it as such. Under discussion here are the permissions that the next owner gets, and why, not what we can do with various permissions settings that others give us.
MenuBar Memorial WaterMoon Artist Join date: 20 Nov 2005 Posts: 214	no copy toggles off 10-18-2006 13:33 I made a simple object for a friend the other day. He tries it out and the COPYABLE object inside it was miraculously NO COPY/NO MOD/NO XFER. I gave him a new one and as I passed the COPYABLE object to him it became NO COPY. I tried again - this time the SCRIPT inside the object turned to NO COPY and vanished from copies he made. Seems to me the COPY permission is fuxored. Anybody else notice anything new like this?
Takuan Daikon choppy choppy! Join date: 22 Jun 2006 Posts: 305	10-18-2006 13:58 From: MenuBar Memorial Seems to me the COPY permission is fuxored. Anybody else notice anything new like this? Oh, yeah. Constantly. I shall have to remember that word, it's so wonderfully descriptive
Anya Ristow Vengeance Studio Join date: 21 Sep 2006 Posts: 1,243	10-18-2006 14:46 From: Earl Zabibha Then how is it when I have something that says NO COPY I end up with another copy of it when I drag it out and then when I click TAKE I have 2 of them now? am I able to give one away? I've seen this with boxed items and I think it's only the box and copyable items in it (the card, the landmark) that get copied after I've moved the "good stuff" to my inventory. I don't think the non-copyable contents get duplicated.

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"You can not make an object both NO COPY and NO TRANSFER."