Second Life Forums Archive - OpenGL and ATI Graphics Cards

Apple Pinkney

Registered User

Join date: 11 Apr 2005

Posts: 98

06-11-2007 11:44

Here's a novel thought. If the Lindens are using OpenGL more (whatever that is, my non-techie brain has no clue) and it is crashing people (like me) with high end ATI Graphics cards we spent a lot of money on, and even more on a unit to keep it cool, maybe they should stop doing it.

Why should thousands (millions?) of SL members have to go get new graphics cards so SL can have fantabulous skies we don't need and many of us don't want? The Lindens have to know how badly this is affecting many many people. Instead of announcing it and addressing the issue, they have made it harder than ever to send in any sort of comment or complaint. When we do manage to trudge through the maze of pathways to send a "Support Ticket," they're the only ones who see it, not the public.

Instead of more and fancier graphics, voice, skies, wind and whatever, dear Lindens, give us a stable platform that works on everybody's existing computers. Communicate with us. Dare I even suggest: *Listen* to us.

_____________________

Apple Pinkney

Raudf Fox

(ra-ow-th)

Join date: 25 Feb 2005

Posts: 5,119

06-11-2007 12:03

Wrong place to address the Linden's, Apple, but your heart is definitely in the right place.

Sadly, few Lindens are actually brave enough to tread the hallowed passages due to the fact that they are not brave enough to handle our slings and arrows of outrage. Otherwise, I heartily agree with you! Oh, yes. They have made it so we can't even GET support when we need it, let along know what policy is going to 'change' without notification.

As for them listening to us? My five year old said it best when he stuck his fingers in his ears and said, "I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!"

_____________________

DiamonX Studios, the place of the Victorian Times series of gowns and dresses - Located at http://slurl.com/secondlife/Fushida/224/176

Want more attachment points for your avatar's wearing pleasure? Then please vote for

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1065?

Zaphod Kotobide

zOMGWTFPME!

Join date: 19 Oct 2006

Posts: 2,087

06-11-2007 12:07

Since presumably, LL are simply implementing the latest openGL standards in the viewer, but are otherwise complying with the standards, you're kinda barking up the wrong tree here. Second Life works better with certain video hardware because certain manufacturers of said hardware keep their driver/feature sets updated to the latest standards more agressively than others. In the virtual world space, there is no such thing as a completely stable platform that works on everybody's existing computers.

Out of curiosity, what do you define as "high end"?

From: Apple Pinkney

Here's a novel thought. If the Lindens are using OpenGL more (whatever that is, my non-techie brain has no clue) and it is crashing people (like me) with high end ATI Graphics cards we spent a lot of money on, and even more on a unit to keep it cool, maybe they should stop doing it.

Why should thousands (millions?) of SL members have to go get new graphics cards so SL can have fantabulous skies we don't need and many of us don't want? The Lindens have to know how badly this is affecting many many people. Instead of announcing it and addressing the issue, they have made it harder than ever to send in any sort of comment or complaint. When we do manage to trudge through the maze of pathways to send a "Support Ticket," they're the only ones who see it, not the public.

Instead of more and fancier graphics, voice, skies, wind and whatever, dear Lindens, give us a stable platform that works on everybody's existing computers. Communicate with us. Dare I even suggest: *Listen* to us.

_____________________

From: Albert Einstein

Problems cannot be solved at the same level of awareness that created them.

Object Pascale

moshi moshi

Join date: 27 Jan 2007

Posts: 648

06-11-2007 12:20

From: Apple Pinkney

Here's a novel thought. If the Lindens are using OpenGL more (whatever that is, my non-techie brain has no clue)

They aren't using OpenGL "more". They have been using OpenGL for *everything* since SL's inception. *Everything* you see in the Second Life client is 'drawn' with OpenGL graphics libraries. There are good reasons for this: A good gfx card (with OpenGL support) can draw these graphics directly allowing your computer's CPU to be used for other important tasks. OpenGL is also available on multiple platforms, allowing LL to aim SL at Mac and Linux users.

The only viable alternative to OpenGL is DirectX, but if they use that instead then Mac and Linux users can kiss Second Life goodbye.

The reason you are crashing is because ATI's OpenGL support is notoriously crappy, and they have always been slow to release drivers for new operating systems. That is why ATI users with Vista PCs are suffering, and why NVidia users with Vista PCs are not.

Alyx Sands

Mental Mentor Linguist

Join date: 17 Feb 2007

Posts: 2,432

06-11-2007 15:18

I use an ATI X600, and have no probs at all-but then again, maybe it's not high end enough...

DoteDote Edison

Thinks Too Much

Join date: 6 Jun 2004

Posts: 790

06-11-2007 17:12

I'll add that I've run SL on three ATI cards, one an unsupported laptop card... and I haven't had crashing problems since 2004.

ATI Mobility Radeon 7500 - it runs, but it's an old P3 Dell laptop... co crashes
ATI Radeon 9600 Pro - runs great once I realized I should keep the catalyst driver updated
ATI Radeon x850XT - runs great, been on the First Look with new skies and no unexpected crashes.

Idunna DeCuir

Huh?

Join date: 11 May 2007

Posts: 88

06-11-2007 18:47

Just got a new computer today with Vista and a ATI Radeon X1300. Once I downloaded the correct Catalyst thingy from ATI for my operating system, SL runs perfectly. I didn't know there was so much wonderful stuff to see. At the ATI website I typed in SecondLife in the search to find what I needed.

Jax Jevon

There ya go !

Join date: 18 Jun 2006

Posts: 308

06-11-2007 19:46

I'm still using a P3 1.13Ghz with Geforce MX440 ( don't laugh ) . granted I can't see the clouds in the Fisrstlook Windlight viewer but still have no problems in SL .. maybe this is about to change/maybe not.P.S. I can't remember when I last upgraded the drivers.

Osgeld Barmy

Registered User

Join date: 22 Mar 2005

Posts: 3,336

06-11-2007 20:05

i have no issues with my ati card on the other computer

if i did i would probally have issues with all open GL applications (theres alot) go bitch at ati for making substandard drivers that arenot always complient with the most used 3d framework in the world

Jack Sakigake

Registered User

Join date: 13 Nov 2006

Posts: 150

06-11-2007 21:40

I have 2 desktop with ATI card one is the X300 and another is a X850Pro. both run without any problem. Oh.. and my Macbook has a X1600 card too it also run without any problem.

Dytska Vieria

+/- .00004™

Join date: 13 Dec 2006

Posts: 768

06-11-2007 23:26

I have a 4 year old Sony and an X1650 Pro agp with not problems. Running Catalyst 7.2. Version 7.5 is buggy with Stock SL viewer, but works well with First Look. And, 7.2 does not work well with First Look. Eventually, LL makes it work, just as with the last First Look program.

Addendum - Obviously, it is important not to have any viruses, trojan horses, etc. installed for proper operation of SL Client (or any software, for that matter!). Additionally, good RAM really makes a difference. Faulty hardware can hardly be blamed for poor SL performance!

_____________________

+/- 0.00004

bilbo99 Emu

Garrett's No.1 fan

Join date: 27 Oct 2006

Posts: 3,468

06-12-2007 00:49

Radeon 9550 running fine here.

What? well it was High-end when it came out Buster!!!

_____________________

Be polite .. that newbie could be your next ex-partner.

Morwen Bunin

Everybody needs a hero!

Join date: 8 Dec 2005

Posts: 1,743

06-12-2007 01:23

In my new computer I have a Readon X1300 Pro 286mb and in my old computer I have a Readon 9600 128mb. Both work good with SL, as long I keep my drivers up to date.

Morwen.

Apple Pinkney

Registered User

Join date: 11 Apr 2005

Posts: 98

Wrong place...

06-12-2007 04:24

From: Raudf Fox

Wrong place to address the Linden's, Apple, but your heart is definitely in the right place.

Sadly, few Lindens are actually brave enough to tread the hallowed passages due to the fact that they are not brave enough to handle our slings and arrows of outrage. Otherwise, I heartily agree with you! Oh, yes. They have made it so we can't even GET support when we need it, let along know what policy is going to 'change' without notification.

As for them listening to us? My five year old said it best when he stuck his fingers in his ears and said, "I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!"

Name me one other place where we can even post publicly to other members, let alone the Lindens. The bigger SL gets, the less responsive the Lindens become. The only way to respond to and "Official Linden Blog" post is to check the blog every 15 minutes when you're online, if you're online when they post something you want to respond to, and then you have to be one of the first 100 people.

"I can't hear you"? Lately, it seems more like, "I don't want to hear you."

_____________________

Apple Pinkney

Brenda Connolly

Un United Avatar

Join date: 10 Jan 2007

Posts: 25,000

06-12-2007 04:29

From: Jack Sakigake

I have 2 desktop with ATI card one is the X300 and another is a X850Pro. both run without any problem. Oh.. and my Macbook has a X1600 card too it also run without any problem.

I have an X300 as well, using the original drivers, no video related problems for me as well.

_____________________

Don't you ever try to look behind my eyes. You don't want to know what they have seen.

http://brenda-connolly.blogspot.com

Zaphod Kotobide

zOMGWTFPME!

Join date: 19 Oct 2006

Posts: 2,087

06-12-2007 04:57

You are free to post your rants and gripes on any forum here where the "read me first" sticky encourages you to post your rants and gripes. Resident Answers does not meet that criteria.

If you want them to stop coding the viewer in OpenGL, you could try posting an alternative suggestion down in the Feature Suggestions forum. As has already been mentioned, the only viable alternative would be DirectX - and this of course would make for a Windows Only Second Life.

Another suggestion, since your original post was misdirected in the first place, would be to find yourself a forum read by ATI, and gripe to them about their shoddy support for the latest OpenGL standards.

Lastly, if you truly want a platform with the highest stability and broadest support for client hardware, try any of these:

http://www.80smusiclyrics.com/games.shtml

From: Apple Pinkney

Name me one other place where we can even post publicly to other members, let alone the Lindens. The bigger SL gets, the less responsive the Lindens become. The only way to respond to and "Official Linden Blog" post is to check the blog every 15 minutes when you're online, if you're online when they post something you want to respond to, and then you have to be one of the first 100 people.

"I can't hear you"? Lately, it seems more like, "I don't want to hear you."

_____________________

From: Albert Einstein

Problems cannot be solved at the same level of awareness that created them.

OpenGL and ATI Graphics Cards
Apple Pinkney Registered User Join date: 11 Apr 2005 Posts: 98	06-11-2007 11:44 Here's a novel thought. If the Lindens are using OpenGL more (whatever that is, my non-techie brain has no clue) and it is crashing people (like me) with high end ATI Graphics cards we spent a lot of money on, and even more on a unit to keep it cool, maybe they should stop doing it. Why should thousands (millions?) of SL members have to go get new graphics cards so SL can have fantabulous skies we don't need and many of us don't want? The Lindens have to know how badly this is affecting many many people. Instead of announcing it and addressing the issue, they have made it harder than ever to send in any sort of comment or complaint. When we do manage to trudge through the maze of pathways to send a "Support Ticket," they're the only ones who see it, not the public. Instead of more and fancier graphics, voice, skies, wind and whatever, dear Lindens, give us a stable platform that works on everybody's existing computers. Communicate with us. Dare I even suggest: Listen to us. _____________________ Apple Pinkney
Raudf Fox (ra-ow-th) Join date: 25 Feb 2005 Posts: 5,119	06-11-2007 12:03 Wrong place to address the Linden's, Apple, but your heart is definitely in the right place. Sadly, few Lindens are actually brave enough to tread the hallowed passages due to the fact that they are not brave enough to handle our slings and arrows of outrage. Otherwise, I heartily agree with you! Oh, yes. They have made it so we can't even GET support when we need it, let along know what policy is going to 'change' without notification. As for them listening to us? My five year old said it best when he stuck his fingers in his ears and said, "I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!" _____________________ DiamonX Studios, the place of the Victorian Times series of gowns and dresses - Located at http://slurl.com/secondlife/Fushida/224/176 Want more attachment points for your avatar's wearing pleasure? Then please vote for https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1065?
Zaphod Kotobide zOMGWTFPME! Join date: 19 Oct 2006 Posts: 2,087	06-11-2007 12:07 Since presumably, LL are simply implementing the latest openGL standards in the viewer, but are otherwise complying with the standards, you're kinda barking up the wrong tree here. Second Life works better with certain video hardware because certain manufacturers of said hardware keep their driver/feature sets updated to the latest standards more agressively than others. In the virtual world space, there is no such thing as a completely stable platform that works on everybody's existing computers. Out of curiosity, what do you define as "high end"? From: Apple Pinkney Here's a novel thought. If the Lindens are using OpenGL more (whatever that is, my non-techie brain has no clue) and it is crashing people (like me) with high end ATI Graphics cards we spent a lot of money on, and even more on a unit to keep it cool, maybe they should stop doing it. Why should thousands (millions?) of SL members have to go get new graphics cards so SL can have fantabulous skies we don't need and many of us don't want? The Lindens have to know how badly this is affecting many many people. Instead of announcing it and addressing the issue, they have made it harder than ever to send in any sort of comment or complaint. When we do manage to trudge through the maze of pathways to send a "Support Ticket," they're the only ones who see it, not the public. Instead of more and fancier graphics, voice, skies, wind and whatever, dear Lindens, give us a stable platform that works on everybody's existing computers. Communicate with us. Dare I even suggest: Listen to us. _____________________ From: Albert Einstein Problems cannot be solved at the same level of awareness that created them.
Object Pascale moshi moshi Join date: 27 Jan 2007 Posts: 648	06-11-2007 12:20 From: Apple Pinkney Here's a novel thought. If the Lindens are using OpenGL more (whatever that is, my non-techie brain has no clue) They aren't using OpenGL "more". They have been using OpenGL for everything since SL's inception. Everything you see in the Second Life client is 'drawn' with OpenGL graphics libraries. There are good reasons for this: A good gfx card (with OpenGL support) can draw these graphics directly allowing your computer's CPU to be used for other important tasks. OpenGL is also available on multiple platforms, allowing LL to aim SL at Mac and Linux users. The only viable alternative to OpenGL is DirectX, but if they use that instead then Mac and Linux users can kiss Second Life goodbye. The reason you are crashing is because ATI's OpenGL support is notoriously crappy, and they have always been slow to release drivers for new operating systems. That is why ATI users with Vista PCs are suffering, and why NVidia users with Vista PCs are not.
Alyx Sands Mental Mentor Linguist Join date: 17 Feb 2007 Posts: 2,432	06-11-2007 15:18 I use an ATI X600, and have no probs at all-but then again, maybe it's not high end enough...
DoteDote Edison Thinks Too Much Join date: 6 Jun 2004 Posts: 790	06-11-2007 17:12 I'll add that I've run SL on three ATI cards, one an unsupported laptop card... and I haven't had crashing problems since 2004. ATI Mobility Radeon 7500 - it runs, but it's an old P3 Dell laptop... co crashes ATI Radeon 9600 Pro - runs great once I realized I should keep the catalyst driver updated ATI Radeon x850XT - runs great, been on the First Look with new skies and no unexpected crashes.
Idunna DeCuir Huh? Join date: 11 May 2007 Posts: 88	06-11-2007 18:47 Just got a new computer today with Vista and a ATI Radeon X1300. Once I downloaded the correct Catalyst thingy from ATI for my operating system, SL runs perfectly. I didn't know there was so much wonderful stuff to see. At the ATI website I typed in SecondLife in the search to find what I needed.
Jax Jevon There ya go ! Join date: 18 Jun 2006 Posts: 308	06-11-2007 19:46 I'm still using a P3 1.13Ghz with Geforce MX440 ( don't laugh ) . granted I can't see the clouds in the Fisrstlook Windlight viewer but still have no problems in SL .. maybe this is about to change/maybe not.P.S. I can't remember when I last upgraded the drivers.
Osgeld Barmy Registered User Join date: 22 Mar 2005 Posts: 3,336	06-11-2007 20:05 i have no issues with my ati card on the other computer if i did i would probally have issues with all open GL applications (theres alot) go bitch at ati for making substandard drivers that arenot always complient with the most used 3d framework in the world
Jack Sakigake Registered User Join date: 13 Nov 2006 Posts: 150	06-11-2007 21:40 I have 2 desktop with ATI card one is the X300 and another is a X850Pro. both run without any problem. Oh.. and my Macbook has a X1600 card too it also run without any problem.
Dytska Vieria +/- .00004™ Join date: 13 Dec 2006 Posts: 768	06-11-2007 23:26 I have a 4 year old Sony and an X1650 Pro agp with not problems. Running Catalyst 7.2. Version 7.5 is buggy with Stock SL viewer, but works well with First Look. And, 7.2 does not work well with First Look. Eventually, LL makes it work, just as with the last First Look program. Addendum - Obviously, it is important not to have any viruses, trojan horses, etc. installed for proper operation of SL Client (or any software, for that matter!). Additionally, good RAM really makes a difference. Faulty hardware can hardly be blamed for poor SL performance! _____________________ +/- 0.00004
bilbo99 Emu Garrett's No.1 fan Join date: 27 Oct 2006 Posts: 3,468	06-12-2007 00:49 Radeon 9550 running fine here. What? well it was High-end when it came out Buster!!! _____________________ Be polite .. that newbie could be your next ex-partner.
Morwen Bunin Everybody needs a hero! Join date: 8 Dec 2005 Posts: 1,743	06-12-2007 01:23 In my new computer I have a Readon X1300 Pro 286mb and in my old computer I have a Readon 9600 128mb. Both work good with SL, as long I keep my drivers up to date. Morwen.
Apple Pinkney Registered User Join date: 11 Apr 2005 Posts: 98	Wrong place... 06-12-2007 04:24 From: Raudf Fox Wrong place to address the Linden's, Apple, but your heart is definitely in the right place. Sadly, few Lindens are actually brave enough to tread the hallowed passages due to the fact that they are not brave enough to handle our slings and arrows of outrage. Otherwise, I heartily agree with you! Oh, yes. They have made it so we can't even GET support when we need it, let along know what policy is going to 'change' without notification. As for them listening to us? My five year old said it best when he stuck his fingers in his ears and said, "I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!" Name me one other place where we can even post publicly to other members, let alone the Lindens. The bigger SL gets, the less responsive the Lindens become. The only way to respond to and "Official Linden Blog" post is to check the blog every 15 minutes when you're online, if you're online when they post something you want to respond to, and then you have to be one of the first 100 people. "I can't hear you"? Lately, it seems more like, "I don't want to hear you." _____________________ Apple Pinkney
Brenda Connolly Un United Avatar Join date: 10 Jan 2007 Posts: 25,000	06-12-2007 04:29 From: Jack Sakigake I have 2 desktop with ATI card one is the X300 and another is a X850Pro. both run without any problem. Oh.. and my Macbook has a X1600 card too it also run without any problem. I have an X300 as well, using the original drivers, no video related problems for me as well. _____________________ Don't you ever try to look behind my eyes. You don't want to know what they have seen. http://brenda-connolly.blogspot.com
Zaphod Kotobide zOMGWTFPME! Join date: 19 Oct 2006 Posts: 2,087	06-12-2007 04:57 You are free to post your rants and gripes on any forum here where the "read me first" sticky encourages you to post your rants and gripes. Resident Answers does not meet that criteria. If you want them to stop coding the viewer in OpenGL, you could try posting an alternative suggestion down in the Feature Suggestions forum. As has already been mentioned, the only viable alternative would be DirectX - and this of course would make for a Windows Only Second Life. Another suggestion, since your original post was misdirected in the first place, would be to find yourself a forum read by ATI, and gripe to them about their shoddy support for the latest OpenGL standards. Lastly, if you truly want a platform with the highest stability and broadest support for client hardware, try any of these: http://www.80smusiclyrics.com/games.shtml From: Apple Pinkney Name me one other place where we can even post publicly to other members, let alone the Lindens. The bigger SL gets, the less responsive the Lindens become. The only way to respond to and "Official Linden Blog" post is to check the blog every 15 minutes when you're online, if you're online when they post something you want to respond to, and then you have to be one of the first 100 people. "I can't hear you"? Lately, it seems more like, "I don't want to hear you." _____________________ From: Albert Einstein Problems cannot be solved at the same level of awareness that created them.

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