Just some thoughts....

I am still some what new to SL but I must say that I love it and most of the people in it. But I am feeling the same pain that everyone else is feeling with this lag issue and the packet loss. Its crazy. Now I am by far no expert however I am a big time gamer and what has be scratching my head is every time I ask about this lag I get the same answer....

"SL is very demanding....."

Ok..... I am sure it is. However I play game like battlefield 2 and now the new release and it does not even come close to this type of lag and they are using some of the latest and best graphics out there to date and they have have to 32 players on one map at the same time!

So I guess what I am saying is, how is it all these high-end games run about 97% perfect, lag free yet SL is having such a hard time? I mean they both have the same things...

SL has people.... The games have People (Multiplayer) Some 32 players to a map!
SL has graphics... Some of the games are using the latest high-end graphics

I am just not buying this whole... "SL is very demanding" answer. God knows I have more then played with my settings and still the same thing.

Now I have noticed a few things though that I thought were odd...
For example, if I am lagging very bad... If I goto the network bandwidth slider and take it down a few or raise it up a few its like it kicks SL into gear and will load the room I am in right up. Its like playing with the slider is a wake up call for the SL network or something.

I love SL but this lag and packet loss issues has to be addressed soon. Mainly the packet loss. There is just no reason we all should be getting this much loss in packets.

When I first got to SL I thought it was a little odd that they do not have any sort of voice chat... I am so happy they don't know... Could you just see the lag then!

VooDoo

LL is going through growing pains; they recently moved into a new Colo. It is my opinion (supported by no facts mind you) that the new Colo isn't working out as expected. All I can figure is there are some crappy routers or bad cabling in the facility. I fear LL may have gotten screwed on this one.

The other games you cite are different from SL in two ways. First, those other games run maps which are stored on your computer's hard drive. SL does not store maps locally. All content you see in SL is streamed from SL's simulators (sims). The SL client is more like a viewer which lets you see what is going on inside of a sim. Second, SL is constantly changing. Rez a prim and the simulator has to track it. Put a texture on that prim, the sim has to update it. Upload a texture, and the system has to update so that everyone can see it.

Let's go back to Battlefield 2. Everything there is static. You can't just create new objects on the fly or upload sound clips and textures during gameplay. Player created maps have to be created before you use them, and you can't change them while in use. These reasons are why Battlefield 2 runs with less lag.

Put simply, the average online game or MMOG is less demanding on its servers and your computer than SL.

Yea, think about it. When you play those games you are wearing a few pieces of clothing and carrying a gun or four. In SL one character may be wearing 20-100 items. And they move!! When's the last time you saw someone's uniform move?

SL has to deal with more things and that is why you get more lag. Of course I hope there is something that Linden can do to make things better, but in the meantime we have to learn tricks to enable the game to give us pleasure.

If I had to guess, I'd agree with you, Strife. I don't remember off hand where Philip said the new colo is, but I do recall he said it was not anywhere near Linden Lab, more like half way across the country. I don't see it as coincidental that the first time they've put servers outside of their home city is also the first time they've had problems of this magnitude.

On the bright side, at least half of SL is no danger of earthquakes now.

It's all about optimization. SL *could* be FPS optimized, but LL is spending their resources on other things.

In short - the SecondLife viewer is not well optimized. 3D FPS's can afford to use small texture sets, clear VRAM in between levels to optimize texture usage, use vertex buffers to optimize static content, and use BSP's to only draw visible objects. FPS's also have physics prediction on the client side. All of this together dramatically improves both the visual FPS and latency that affects flying and driving.

SL's Graphics aren't optimized: I don't think SL is using GL Vertex buffers, which can make a huge performance difference. In my own tests, drawing spheres with on the order of 1000 faces could bog down an un-optimized pipeline. By simply creating a vertex buffer, I could draw tens of thousands of faces before the FPS dropped below 60.

SL is also not using lighting properly. The brightness of every face is being re-calculated every frame, which is creating a lot of overhead. Using a hardware light to represent the sun angle would not only make things look better (especially twisted prims), but would be faster. If I calculate the brightness of every face in real time for that aforementioned 1000 face sphere, my frame rates cut by more than half.

Transparent surfaces have to be sorted. With lots of transparent surfaces, the processing time goes way up, since sorts aren't always particularly efficient.

Add to that the real-time loading and unloading of textures, no BSP, no geometry caching (forcing the server to re-transmit geometry every time you enter an area), and no client side prediction (aside from avatar movement), and you have some serious bottlenecks.

That is more than just your opinion, Strife; I believe you are indeed correct. I believe the Lindens stated that the packet loss problem is stemming from having that new facility.

Having said that, though, the "growing pains" concept long since lost any meaning for me as an excuse.

coco

Well all good poiints guys. Thanks for all the info. I guess it just sucks cause I love SL so much and I just wish they could get this stuff fixed. Just needed to vent I guess.

but if it did all work hunky dory with no lag, no lockups, no missing textures would we be really happier? Isn't this like the child and the sweetie jar with the narrow neck and deep bottom? Every time I lock up I just can't get back in quick enough! LOL

OK, just fantasising