OK, Gambling's had the banhammer. So what *IS* permitted?

Serious question: I occasionally put on events and from time to time will set out a raffle ball with a mixture of cash and goodies that I make as prizes. The raffle ball has a variety of options for raffle entrants ranging from 'Donate to the pot to enter' [Pay to play] to 'Click on the Raffle Ball to enter' [Free to play].

Now I presume that the 'Pay to Play' option is forbidden. That's no biggie. I can live with that. But what about the 'Free to Play' option where I load up the raffle ball and it picks winners at fixed intervals out of a pool of entrants who have clicked on the raffle ball? Is that still permitted?

Also I would like to see a statement (preferrably by a Linden in the know) as regards which games, if any, are still permitted. Also useful would be a list of known games that might fall into a grey area that would be permitted with prescribed modifications and what modifications would be required to meet the new rules. This would go a long way to clearing up the panic and confusion that seems to be prevalent today. Thanks in advance.

Free to play should be fine from what I can make out. There's no wager there. However don't quote me if the Feds come knocking on your door.

That's why I started this thread, Ciaran. I feel it would be helpful to all concerned to have things listed specifically.

LL have already said they refuse to specify what's allowed beyond what they'd already outlined as they aren't lawyers.

However I don't see how a free to enter game can fall foul of the law.

If you put items in an item that needs money to get an item that's technically a lucky dip purchase if it is one payment = one item.

Can't see that is out of the question. It's not GAMBLING so long as something appears I'd have thought ...

If you are paying for a CHANCE to win something then it is gambling.

And if you're being nice and giving things away then publicise it

Even if LL did list all known games that are to be outlawed, people will make slightly different games with different names and functions that may well fall in to a grey area. Therefore, in order to nip this problem in the bud and to avoid the 'grey areas' I think Linden may well enforce a blanket ban on all gambling and anything that even looks like it could possibly...at a stretch.... be used for gambling. I think a raffle ball would fall into this catagory.

I agree that LL need to start dealing with the specific questions generated by this policy ban, but I am not hopeful. It might be that another pettition is in order as they only seem to react to players specific questions when they have a list of 5000 names backing them up.

I agree that this needs clarifying every bit as much as I agree that compliance was needed in the first place. This sort of thing HAS to be in specific ... or outright. It would be a shame if things like slingo etc have to go.

Saying that people's competitions are due to the operator's common sense, to paraphrase, is not enough. People NEED guidance.

I'm not all that bothered if 'Free to play' raffle balls are also forbidden. It's a shame as I've seen many people win treehouses that I make and then go on to use them in creative ways. Nine Tails on Meeting Island being an example. It also gives me a nice warm feeling when someone gets excited about winning one of my creations. Still, times change and we must adapt.

Here's one for you: What about sweepstakes?

I just finished my morning Pepsi. Inside the cap is a code I can enter on Pepsi's website, to have a chance to win prizes and cash.

Is this against the SL gambling ban? Heck no! It's not even against the RL USA gambling laws.

Why not?

Because I *didn't make a wager*. The money I paid Pepsi was for the soda I drank. They threw in the chance to win a prize free of charge.

Of course, the cost of those prizes is built into Pepsi's advertising budget, and therefore a tiny part of the cost of my soda. But that's merely a philosophical point. The important point is that this sort of "game of chance" is LEGAL.

Unfortunately, an advertising gimmick is all that a sweepstakes like this can be...because it doesn't appeal to the "I might get rich quick" dream that drives the casino patrons.

So you could set up a store selling 0.5 x 0.5 x 0.5m wooden textured boxes for L$100 each.

To encourage you to buy, every time you buy a box there is a chance you could win L$10,000.

This isn't gambling because no wager is being made - you aren't paying L$100 to make a wager you are paying L$100 for a state of the art wooden textured box!

I see a sudden growth in the box market here

Matthew

Ah yes, the "No purchase neccessary" workaround does have potential.

One thing your forgetting, all of those contests allow you to request a free ticket to enter the contest. Thats what keeps them from being lotteries.

What is your take on charity raffles?

Over the last few months I went to a series of RFL events where different SL designers and artists donated their work to the RFL group to be part of raffles to collect funds for the RL RFL.

From what I understand of LL new policy, these sort of raffles are now banned. Am I correct?

What concerns me about this new ban is how it implies that L$ is legally comparable to real money. The understanding had always been (as far as I saw) that L$ isn't actually real money and LL just decides to pay you out as part of the perks of SL.

Now that it's being considered comparable to RL money what's stopping the next step of extra taxes on our SL revenues by our respective governments?

LL needs to etch some things in stone and not sand!!

Yes, you can have a free ticket if you want - no more than one free application per avatar though! After that you'll have to buy a box!

(Checks random number generator), oh sorry, your free ticket didn't win anything. Bad luck. Could I interest you in a box? only L$100!

Matthew

I've raised this point elsewhere, the door appears to be opening for tax man to come in now.

You're supposed to report all your earnings anyway (If you're a US Citizen). If you haven't Mister IRS is going to be knocking anyway.

THEY REFUSE? and why?
If they are b creating a medieval world out of SL, at least they should tell us what we CAN do and what we cant'....please...

Well this is my point Tybalt, are they earnings when they don't leave the game?

They're not lawyers is the reason given.

No, they're not and wouldn't be taxed. It's when you cash out.

Right, so even with the US dollars sat there waiting to pay my tier fees, that's not income unless I transfer it to my bank account?

However what concerns me is that if inworld L$ are seen as gambling money, then surely it won't be long before all inworld L$ are seen as having real value and then all transactions could be taxed, whether we cash out or not.

I guess sploders are outlawed now as well? I never understood why gambling was such a big deal...there are many other things going on in SL that need to be addressed, and done away with, before they even consider gambling.

I could wish this was true - then I can claim a RL tax rebate on my SL loss!