How do you get LL to actually read questions?

Cause, you know, I asked a fairly detailed set of questions referring to an inventory loss 45 days old now in Linden Answers.....and the answer I got is a key example of the same dismissive thing I was asking about....

/139/d9/159731/1.html#post1381047

I would really like some resident answers on this. Am I the only one who is unhappy with LL's response to inventory loss? Please read my thread there and respond here, since they disallow replies there. This is now a question for other residents.

I understand why you're unhappy, I would be too if that happened to me! I've been involved in other online worlds before coming to Second Life, sadly most seem to have this type of issue -- whether it occurs to a few users or a few hundred I haven't seen many MMOG that haven't had someone complaining in the forums about missing inventories.

That being said, if your content was deleted from the asset server, wouldn't there be no way LL could ascertain what you had? Now I'm no techie nor am I suggesting you are being anything less than 100% honest, however if LL replaced the items everyone claimed they were missing, I'm sure less honest people would find ways to abuse the system -- most certainly people with unverified accounts would.

I do wish you the best of luck in getting this sorted out however and the safe return of your items. As for the items bought from other residents, if you know when you bought them, you could ask the content creators to look up their transaction history to prove you aren't pulling a fast one on them. I'm sure some of them would be happy to replace the item they sold you which disappeared, I know I would if you bought something off me.

I really wish I had the answer to your questions. I've been here two years and can't off the top of my head recall a time when LL replaced anyone's inventory due to some weird bug or server issue. I know how frustrating losing something from your inventory can be, I recently purchased some items that did not even show up into my inventory though the money was taken from my account balance. I just got lucky enough to have the creator replace the items for me. Not once but twice. It's not always the case but it does happen.



Unless the creator prints out a transaction history monthly there is no way for them to know who brought what. Our transaction histories only go back 30 days. I try to get a copy of my transaction history once a week, I'm just that anal, and keep a running list of who brought what and when. Not everyone is like me and it seems these items were purchased alot longer than 30 days ago. For me personally, I set all the stuff I sell to no transfer that way if after checking my list I see there name I can easily just give them another copy. I find for myself its just easier to do it that way knowing how buggy this place can be sometimes.

Sweet, I really do hope that this experience doesn't turn you off SL in the long run. Like I said I've been here for almost 2 and a half years now. Overall I'd say it is a nice place and in my experience 95% of the content creators are more than happy to help out customers because it is in our best intrest to do so. I hope everything works out for you. I wanted to send you a PM but it seems you have that turned off. Send me an IM in world when you get a chance.

I can relate to this problem though my loss was much less. Last Saturday afternoon I happened to attempt to upload a texture I made during time when SL was experiencing some sort of "asset server issue"..........I was not aware of any issue since there was no apparent problem for me at the time. What happened was that I uploaded the texture as I normally do using the file menu drop down. Found and chose to upload the texture and agreed to pay the 10 lindens. All went fine and got the message that I paid Linden Labs the 10 lindens. As I always do I checked my texture file and saw that the file with the name I had given it was there safe and sound. Since I was making a custom item for someone I wanted to make the item of clothing and check for quality I immediately went into appearance to make the clothing item. When I went to the texture picker to choose and apply the texture I could not find it. Thinking that it was simply a matter of waiting a few minutes for the new item to be found by LL's asset server I simply quit the appearance and waited for about 10 mins to try again. Same results. So I quit the the appearance editor again and did a search for the texture............it was not there now. I log and reboot and clear my SL cache. No good........still gone.

Okay, no big deal.........10 lindens. What's that worth in USD? So I upload it again. Everything works as normal until the final part when I go to look in my texture folder. It's not there. I got the message that I paid LL another 10 lindens and the 10 was taken from my account (same as before). Then some few minutes later I get some blue box message that my transaction could not be processed due to it timed out (or something to that effect)............but my lindens were not returned to my account! I go to Live Help to ask what is going on and how do I get either my lindens back or my uploaded item in my inventory. I finally get a reply from a Linden (I forget the first name.........some female name) asking if she could help. I explain briefly what occured and she tells me at that time that there is some sort of asset server problem that is being worked on......please be patient (the usual stuff). I tell her thanks but that did not answer my question..........I want the texture in my inventory or my account credited with at least one fo the upload fees I paid. She told me she could not do anthing about that and to be patient. She told me that if I paid for it then it is in my texture file. I told her it was not there but the first upload it was then disappeared.......second upload it never appeared at all). She told me it was in alphabetical order (not true in the inventory folder though I believe one can sort that way if they wish.......I don't have mine sorted that way). I told her again that it was there but disappeared. She told me to search it............I had done that already. Then she tells me to file a bug report explaining all that. Have any of you filed a bug report? What steps to recreate the problem? Uhhhh............upload a texture and pay for it and see it and then go to use it and find it gone!!! What occurred? Uhhh..............nothing!!! What was the expected result? Uhhhhhh...............the texture to be in my iventory!!!

The short of it is that we are on our own when it comes to lost stuff on their servers. They have a nightmare that they created and they have no clue on how to fix it. Instead of being upfront about it they gloss it over with "we are sorry for the inconvenience and ask for you to be patient". The Linden I spoke to really did not listen to what I said and only offered suggestions that appeared to be copied and pasted in the IM chat window. No concern at all. Sure I was only talking about a total of 20 lindens..........but it just as easily could have been much more, as the original posters situation. It's just a good thing I'm not playing this game for any reason except for the fun (when I can get logged on) and not attempting to make any "money" or gain. I'd be one unhappy cookie.......as Sweet Primrose is.

Shineese..............what a kind heart you are. I'm sure that goes a very long way to making your customers happy and very loyal. And, I agree that most "merchants" in SL are the same......but, it is not in any way your fault that the items are missing from Sweet's (or anyone elses) inventory. Yes, it doesn't cost you much (if anthing at all) to replace a lost inventory item.......well, time is worth something though. It takes your time to research your transactions and time and effort to keep records on your own. You as a merchant did no wrong.........it's not up to you to correct the problem. It's Linden Labs concern.........and they are leaning on you to correct their problem. That is just an attempt to keep the wronged person silent........they are putting the pressure on you to "correct" or "make right" their mistake.

It's just not right at all.

I'm starting to get pretty annoyed at this situation too, but from the perspective that I'm having to replace items that other people have purchased from me and lost. One thing that confuses me about all this is that whenever I have to deal with it, people seem to get stuck on the fact that I have proof that they purchased the item (which seems to be the track everyone is taking in the previous posts here too). From where I see it, knowing that the purchase was made is not really the issue. I do know who has purchased my items, but what I don't know is if they've truly lost it or not. They may have just left it somewhere and forgotten, which has happened on occasion. As the creator I have no way of looking into someones else inventory, or finding everything they own that's rezzed elsewhere, to confirm if they still have it or not. I've reluctantly replaced quite a few things recently, but if they continue to go missing I'm going to have to implement a hard and fast rule about no replacements because I can't continue to just blindly believe people when they tell me an item has gone missing.

Sweet, I totally understand your frustration on this one. I think LL's responses (or lack of) are far too slack and inconsistent around these issues. I can understand why LL may not be able to replace these things themselves, but if we're expected to replace them then we need enough information to be sure we're not being lied to. This is LL's issue, not ours, so surely LL should be responsible for providing the necessary info. I find it hard to believe that they can't just check what is in the av's inventory, and what else is owned by them elsewhere in the grid, and notify the creator that the item is definitely MIA. If they could do that I would never have any problems with replacing lost inventory.

What gets me the most is the disparity between the email I finally got and what the Lindens elswhere keep saying.

Martin Linden's email: Each week they do a "sweep" that returns "some" missing inventory. If that sweep doesn't catch it, then it's gone forever.

vs.

Every other Linden saying, weeks and now more than a month later, to keep sending reports to so-and-so, or IM this or that person for help..... as if there is still a method of retrieval and somehow I just have failed to follow the correct path.

My missing items were all poses, animations, and dances, nearly all from the same vendor. She never replied to any of my requests for help. These items were all no-copy and they disappeared when the copy of my AO they were in disappeared. I repurchased them all.

I am astonished that this level of service from LL is both a common experience and, sadly, widely accepted as the best we can expect.

The whole premise of SL as "the next generation internet" depends on the integrity and reliability of its data storage and retrieval. If anything you buy can one day go "poof" forever and with no recourse and conflicting information if recourse is even available, much less how it is obtained..... how can you dare invest anything here? I only lost 2000L. Others have lost far far more. *sighs*

While I can certainly understand and empathize with your plight, I wouldn't call Chadrick's response to you "dismissive" in any way, shape, or form. I think it was more than polite actually, given the tone of your post.

As I'm sure you well know, Linden Answers is not the proper venue for complaints or individual problems. It's purpose is as a place us to ask the Lindens questions about how things work, what their plans are for SL's future, etc. It's not supposed to be a place for people to come to vent their frustrations, which is what you were doing.

Had Chadrick actually wanted to be dismissive, he could have simply said, "This is not the place for this sort of thing," and left it at that. He didn't do that though. He offered to take your problem to the bug department personally. He didn't have to do that, but he did. He could have told you to get lost, but he didn't. He could have called you out on the fact that all your so called questions were entirely rhetorical, thinly veiled complaints, not actual requests for infomation, but he didn't. He could have told you to file a bug report yourself, but he didn't. He took your problem, and offered to present it for you to the ONLY people who can possibly do anything about it, something that's well beyond his duties. And you decided to chastise him for it. Wow.

Really, what did you want him to do? Wave a magic wand? Go on a mythic quest to the Land of the Lost to bring back your inventory in a golden chest? Get down on his knees and start sucking? Tuck you in before bed? Fold your socks for you? All of the above? Come on.

Look, as I said, I don't blame you at all for being upset about lost inventory; that's the single worst thing that can happen in SL. But how about not being a prick to the people who are trying to help you? Wouldn't that make more sense than what you're doing now?

They are not thinly veiled rhetorical complaints... There is a disparity between the two things we are told regarding missing content. I would like to know which is correct.

If it is true that after one week, lost content is forever lost, as Martin says in his email, then I would like an explanation of why on these forums and in game and in other emails from Lindens we are encouraged to continue to seek help from specific Lindens on getting our things back LONG after that week has passed.

His response was indeed dismissive, for "I'll forward it here" "I'll send your concern there" and "try sending a note to..." are the "answers" I have already received from LL on this issue of my missing content. It is an endless loop of appearing to assist....and no assistance is ever actually provided. None of those places they say they send it to ever does anything. None of the people they tell me to IM ever return my IMs. Deflection is a very common PR tactic.

Forty-five days, remember, since my first request for help in recovering this inventory. And nearly two weeks since the last communication from them on its resolution.

I am more than justified in taking a firm, rational, no-frills tone in asking them, yet again, to first clarify their recovery process and second justify their conflicting messages about how (or even if) things are recovered. And naturally this whole process was initiated by the failure of this data storage and retrieval company to safely store and retrieve data. I think that is a significant problem that deserves a complete treatment.

Thank you, Chosen Few, for your constructive contribution to this thread.

They lose stuff and the tired line about contacting support is akin to "the check is in the mail" or perhaps:

Well, be happy Linden does replace some things.

In more then one online game/community I was never things were replaced, no matter how they got lost... human error, bug, exploit or by griefing.

I don't mean this bad, but at least you have here a change of getting your stuf back.

Morwen.

Meaning you, personally, have had lost inventory replaced? As in requesting replacement from LL and having them respond in the affirmative? This would be distinct from clearing a corrupted cache, or re-installing the software, or re-logging, or hearing from a third party that items were replaced.

I've never known anyone to have lost inventory replaced, but I'd like to change that belief given a statement to the contrary. The reason I ask is that LL policy has always been "we are not responsible for your inventory" even though they pretend to customers that they really can be if they feel like it.

There are a few different ways inventory can seem to end up lost, some of them do end up getting "fixed", but the general "it was there yesterday, but not today" does seem to be the one where they simply don't get involved. Or if you rezzed it just before the sim crashed, and it rolled back to a time before you did when it restarts.

If you rez something and it never shows (for instance on a parcel where you can build, but object entry is turned off) then it's likely to show up at the 0, 0, 0 sim corner and you'd get it back if auto-return is on, or the parcel owner there simply returns it (or you go to pick it up).
It also seems to be possible for objects to simply go off-world without getting returned like they should (from the way the Linden talked about it, it seemed different from the above) and then they turn up in lost and found one day.
If it's throwing a missing from database error, then that should start an automated recovery, otherwise notifying support so that they can manually restore it.
I always keep track of the number of the items in my inventory when I log off and check if it's still the same when I log on. At times the number can be off by as much as a few hundred items (not exactly encouraging ), but after a while (hours, a day) the count tends to be what it should be again.

I was referring to the message of Sweet Primrose. There the suggestion appears that items are replaced/put back. If this actually happens, I don't know.

I mean, here Linden claims that they restore lost items, in the other games/community I reffered you get a big simple "No".

Morwen.