Need feedback, Advise

This is from one of my notecard postings to group I run.
I am sharing it here to get more feedback.
Please if you're going to respond be polite, civil, show me that good and kind people exist in Secondlife.
Also I don't attend "educational classes" because of lag, scheduling issues and past problems I have had with them so recommending this is going to only cause more problems.
I have already exceded the limit I want to invest in this game and beyond my economicla means.
I am not sure what I should do.
I have created many very beautiful things sadly there imperfect, flawed and most of you will never see them because of how things work here and I am just not satisified with how they have turned out, some of glitches that I haven't descibed in detail here.
I am frusterated. I haven't been in Second life for days. My tier now is 75 usd.
I can buy 7000m2 more tier if I ever get enough money to do so but the land cost in area I want to expand is so high and I already owe 80k it seems impossible.
If you're one of those people who thinks only those who can throw 4000 usd here and there on whatever and only those who can should play Second life go elsewhere.
I am not interested in hearing your advise and I will prompty ignore you.
The letter from notecard is long but it covers several areas I am having problems with as far as group object management, sky building on platforms, building community, neighborhood, networking with other groups and frusterations of SL.
Forgive the grammar issues, I don't have the energy to edit all my run on sentences etc.
I don't have enough Lindens to hire a editor.
This was to group of friends in my private group:
"Frusterations, Hassles Clouding my Dreams and Hopes"
I haven't been on much this week because truthfully I have been a frusterated creator and been throwing emotional childish tantrums because of this.
For those around me who witness this or were uncomfortable I am truly sorry.
I am not sure how to correct the problems so I am sharing this for perhaps feed back and advice.
One of things I am dealing with is I am learning,
I don't always know how to deal with different things, secondly I have been quite ill and I get tired, depressed easily and often the two don't mix well when I am trying to do things and nothing is working the way I want or I am hitting roadblocks.
Secondly is how do I increase the enjoyment levels and fun in my second life when all I want to do is play with prims, make beautiful things when nothing is working right?
I have no clue how to do this.
Things are getting expensive for me and I want to do more but this means I need to find way to increase the income to fund group projects, land and build the community we all would be happy with, yet not have to depend on those who are members who have their own expenses within Second Life and their own lands and groups to maintain.
How can I support the brotherhood's sister groups and members who already own land elsewhere yet also increase those who are active fulltime residents in the lab?
Most importantly is problems I am facing with my own skill level and area I want to use for private research and experiments and the problems its causing.
One the area is always getting in way of my building projects. I am either accidentally deleting things, the prims aren't level or there are things in way that I keep attaching.
If it's other people's objects are here in the space I can't move them but I can still delete them.
I often can't even move or control placement of objects of those who I own mod rights too.
I can delete only to be stuck with empty spaces and no real way of alligning prims level to my need.
If it's my objects I can move, delete or the allignment is totally off. Or I accidentally join or delete prims in middle of focusing on another project.
I don't know how to fix this.
Lastly I am more of loner type yet I do need others, I need advice, guidance and instruction of more experience builders and guidance but I don't know to find the help for projects I want to create.
I don't do well with lot of things going on yet I really would love and hope to build a community, neighborhood here in bluehound for fun, for creations, to build, for art, friendships and family here with people who share interest, goals.
I don't want to greedy land baron or merchant who sells inferior or stolen products for few lindens to cover tier.
I don't want to be cold, totally focused business artist type person focused on just pushing and maniplating others to buy my or the groups products.
I don't want to be SL's next trillionare either.
Yet we all need things, we all need to survive, thrive and have success in our lives be virtual or in our flesh live existances too.
I would like to have things here without borrowing or eating cereal.
I admit I have acquired lot of land but I really don't know what to do with it or how to use it.
I keep thinking if I build or create something special for pleasure of it the lindens and usd dollars will eventually come to pay for it all.
Perhaps I have lost control over my prim addiction.
I have been thinking a whole lot this last few days about if I could have any dream or hope in my life here I keep thinking of the economics of SL as it exist.
At the current time our "usd" funds the linden dollar to get certain things we must pay and then pay more in hopes to get or achieve certain thing be it enviroment, a look or even how we play.
Yet what it lacks for new members is often how to find the fun, the interactions, acquiring things we are use to in other game enviroments within our means.
Most gaming enviroments there is flat set fee, within that set fee you are given certain options of activities, things to do and even rewards for time played.
Here its totally different, it doesn't exist unless you can build it, find and buy it, or hire someone to build mean while you go through many, many usd to get the lindens to achiever whatever or even find it not always finding those devices or things you bought working or even were sold by the orginal owner, often someone sold you item that was meant to be free for all citzens of Second Life but there so many of those items, its impossible to know and communication, knowing things the curve often is way too steep and too tedious for most people to even have time for.
My goal is cure for all this. I don't know how to do this. I don't even know how to seek others out who know possible sollutions for this.
I don't even know how if its possible.
My goal isn't to create the newest casino, newest scam, newest camp chair but community of caring, creative people who want to create kinder, more beautiful, more affordable, more fun and intereactive corner of Second Life where friendships and relationships can be formed. Where on hard day of meatating on our flesh sided reality we can switch over to avatar shapeshifting bodies seek fun, support and encouragement to imagine even better reality then the one we often see in our flesh worlds.
This is my hope.
This is my goal.
I am frusterated because I have been trying for
ten years in various 3d worlds with similar problems and complexities and I have not figured out how to achieve it.
My hope is how to achieve here.
Yet I have found myself back in same rutt of throwing more and more dollars in this goal but with little interest or real know how to achieve and reach out to others to achieve this.
I don't know how to create this?
What should I do?
Thanks, FD
Sorry for long post.
Thinking of also sharing this in forums not sure what to do.

This advise is well-meant, please take it as such.

It is hard to understand what you are requesting, or what the problems you face are. However, to paraphrase: "you are spending lots of money, but are having trouble creating things that are worthwhile" or something like that.

The first bit of advice is: dump your land, stop spending. If you put your land for sale at 11L/m you will sell it instantly. Reduce your tier. Find a 512m spot somewhere. When you know what you want, and how to do it, then increase your land. It sounds like you purchased land with no real goal in mind -- and it is expensive (I also think it will drop, so cash out now). You can increase later.

Secondly, try reformulating this into a simple question, two or three lines, less than 100 words max. Many people are incredibly helpful (and try to be), but it is difficult to understand what you are after here. It *sounds* like you want to make a club, and want to differentiate it from other clubs, but are frustrated in this goal somehow, but this isn't clear in your message, because it also sounds like you want to be a builder.

The third thing is: chill-out, relax, hang-out, build without some overreaching purpose. When you are having fun, the learning aspect comes easier. Also when you hang-out, you discover what people *really* want.

I really like the 2500 prims to play with and the land is pretty much used as private sandbox for small group of friends.
I don't charge any of them.
I did have friend loan me large sum of lindens that I am paying back.
I like building but I am more into complex 3d textures using prims,etc. but I have been creator.
I like creating 2d spaces and some how making them 3d but I am still learning.
I also wanted to create alternative roleplaying community that didn't involve some popular media theme or bdsm.
I have the story, the theme the concept.
I also want to create sort of village that provides are lower cost way of enjoying second life but doesn't short change the skills and time of those who create orginal content. creates amd runs events.
Issue is find people who share the same vision and commitment.
I got small team of friends but some have their own land, others have their own agenda's and goals here.
So often I feel sort of own my own and paying for all this tier, can't buy a whole sim yet with very small community, yet stuck with simple things like how do get such and such work right without deleting prim behind or below it.

Sorry If I wasn't clear.
I make things. Some are very beautiful at least to me and to some of my friends.
But because of how things are within SL its often hard to even connect with others for feedback.
If it isn't some generic barbie or ken doll avatar it often seems there is no demand for it here.
If it isn't some prefab house that looks a certain way no one wants to buy it.
If you want to create something orginal often unless you're highly skilled and know everyone in SL and they are on your buddylist and great at promoting your product can pay, pay for advertising no one will ever notice you.
I still have ways to go most of my stuff has promise and is beautiful but its not as good it could be.
I wish I could hand draw every detail of this kitchen I am working on, know which curves work with what.
My land provides me unlimited prims to figure out that.
I am still learning but how do I reduce the stress of raising cost of acquiring more sims without resorting to prostution, etc?
Not sure about even how to find few people who could be renters or even if I want to go that route.

and what out of that list are you preventefrom doing?

i build...create..sell..play..socialize ..yes occasionally things get messy but nothing that prevents me from doin what i want for any signifigant amount of time

Biggest problems I am facing are
One when I run into program freeze ups and not able to do something I want or
I can't figure out how, I can't find who to ask.
Two when I want to do something always happens to block every step in creating whatever even its slight thing as complex kitchen design on 1 prim.
And I don't know want to do.
Three not sure how to make my vision, dream, ideals and creations turn out or even have bit larger group even just 10 people who are commited to having to suceed.
I have small group but I often feels like while they value somethings, they often are side tracked with other things.
It so hard to talk to people who only hear half of things you trying to tell them and then when I ask, imply or even say well maybe you want to do something else or not interested in ideals they saw oh I value and appreciate your ideals,etc but act like they more interested in what they are doing.
Perhaps I am doing something in my frusteration, or perhaps I am coming off sound way to emotional and they are afraid to say something like you know I am really not interested I rather do X.

send me an IM in game and ill send you a notecard on how to help reduce lag sometimes that is an issue

it can be simple preferences you need to adjust to help

if your on mainland not sure what to tell you but ill never ever rent or own mainland again its to frustrating

there are lots of places to go and classes you can take to learn how to do things better that is what i have always done and sometimes i go just to learn others techniques on something i may not be able to figure out

2500 prims is a luxury not many can afford. maybe you're living above your means? still, how about banding together with friends and everyone contributes tier to a group? your generosity can only go so far when you need to borrow money to provide it.

most projects are doomed from the beginning if they start out too big. google didn't start with racks and racks of servers. don't expect to buy lots of land and be successful. when you start small you're forced to learn to be efficient, and are able to change directions quickly. you may think you need a certain number of prims to shape a room how you like it, but having to start out a club on a 2048 meter plot and growing slowly as required will help you greatly. once you learn to use prims well, there's not much more you can do with 1000 prims you can't do with 500.

small and simple means less to worry about, less debt, less pressure to be successful, and a greater chance you'll complete the build on time.

None of my current group members can or want to contribue to the tier.
So what other options do I have?
I ideally it would me nice if I could get even 5 friends who want to chip in for things to share the cost but its hard know how to find those who want to do this.
Thanks for advise.
I definitely need it.
I am looking forward to hearing what others say here.
Part of problem I am facing perhaps is communication and connecting with those who want to same things.
I am not sure.
Perhaps I need to re-organize goals and find a better way to work on doing it.
I am not sure if I get the investment I spent on the land back even at 11 l per per square meter.
If I sell I have no clue where I go and build.
I really dislike sandboxes and I don't want to rent in private island or community at this point.
When I started out over three months ago I had small lot.
One of things I really dislike about small mainland lots is you're building for example on lot but everyone else's stuff is surrounding your avatar vision of the build.
It basically the equivelent if someone was standing right in front of me in sandbox while I am trying to build something.
Also the stuff I am doing is quite experimental and I really don't just want anyone to be able to see it if I don't trust them.

Then you really cannot afford the altruistic luxury of 2500 prims in a private sandbox for them to use. If they can't help pay for it, then they need to realize that that will lose the use of it, because you cannot afford to be so generous. They are basically getting something for nothing, and leaving you holding the bill.


If that is the case, then you really overpaid for your land. I'm sorry for you if that is the case.

Keep 512 square meters, and sell everything else. You will only have to pay for your premium membership each month, with no additional tier. I know the prims will be tight, but I think you have tried to expand much too fast, and take on too much, and you are driving yourself into financial ruin in the process. If you think you can afford to pay an additional $5 USD, keep a second 512 plot as well and sell the rest.

Why not? You might be better off selling off everything, dropping your premium membership, and renting a private sandbox for now.


Then build in the sky on a platform above the land you own, or land you rent. Or if your finances are really too tight to own or rent land right now, or to afford the premium membership, maybe you will just have to bite the bullet and work in a sandbox for a while. Look to find one that isn't as crowded. And realize that everyone there is so busy building their stuff, that they really aren't paying that much attention to what you are doing.

It's nice that you want to create an artistic community, but you have tried to do it too quickly, without enough experience or research. It is an expensive proposition, and it sounds like your finances are rather tight. It just might not be possible for you to do it right now. You are pulling yourself in too many directions - the arts group, your building projects, considering renting out some of your land, etc. Pick one thing, and focus on that. I would recommend that it be your building. There are lots of free tutorials and classes in SL that you can take to learn more, and be with other people that you can ask questions.

Good luck to you.

I can think of two:

* Find different group members.

* Reduce the size of your project to where you can afford it by yourself.


This sounds likely. You've used a lot of words, but I still have no clear idea what you're trying to do. If I were a member of your group, I would not be inspired to contribute money at this time.

If your goal is to learn more about building and build things for your own satisfaction and profit, that is not something a group is likely to support for you. And you can't expect to make very polished products that will sell for big profits while you're still learning how to select, move and texture prims.



Unless you are ready to buy a sim, you will have to deal with people seeing your builds, and you will have to see other people's builds. If you don't like the mainland you can rent space on an island, but those are your choices in Second Life: nobody can make that go away for you.

It is never been about profit for me but this is luxury expense that is bit more then I should have ever spent.
I am bit frusterated because I guess my words and ideals aren't being understood.
Oh well I don't know how to fix this either.
Thanks for your feed back.

AS far as your comment that you can not attended classes because they are to laggy.

i took a class lastnite on animation. there were 30 people in the sim, in the room, in the class

and it was not that laggy....i could walk around and IM my friends and watch the class and everything worked fine.......

and i dont have some super pc, just 1.4GHZ 1GBRAM 8GBHD GeForce 6600


take some classes if you want to learn and find people to ask questions to about what your learning

It sounds like you are a bit of a dreamer, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. It's just that sometimes it's hard for dreamers to make good business decisions.

It sounds like with your financial situation, you either need to sell the land and rent, even though that's not your first choice, or you will need to find people to help you cover the expenses. You could try posting in the land sales and rentals page to see if you can get like-minded people who will want to join your group and pay rent to use your property. Or tell the people who are currently using your land that you cannot pay for it anymore on your own and that you need them to contribute something or you will have to sell some of the land.

You might be too hard on yourself - some of your products might be better than you think they are. You could try setting some things out at one of the free yard sales, pricing them accordingly because you don't think they're perfect, and see how people respond. If there is interest in your product, that might help to encourage you.

Also you mentioned accidentally deleting things. I used to do that a lot and it was a pain. If you have something you want to keep in its place and not accidentally delete, make sure to lock it in the editing tab before you move on to the next thing.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Yeah I definitely don't want to sell, I don't want to rent from others and have to lose controls I have with mainland.
I am often too critical and hard on myself and art.
Not every day can reproduce Cezanne's art work with just a mouse and art program with no copying and pasting but I have in past.
So only option is finding people who share my vision or want to contribute to having private building space.
Few times I just clicked on surface and it vanished and it wasn't just me other builders have experienced that too in lab.
The prims are often locked yet I still get those pop ups and before I know it the objects are gone or they have been merged with the jewlry item or kitchen I am working on.
Thanks for your kind response.

This may seem a bit odd but it's the best short answer I can give:

1. Try updating your video drivers. Really. Works wonders, solves all sorts of Second Life related problems. Do this first.

2. Get familiar with the View Sim Statistics data, specifically sim time dilation and sim FPS. That way you'll know if you simply need to call for a sim restart and suddenly most things will be right with the world again. Again, life-and-death for enjoyment of the game.

3. Dream. Dream, dream, dream and dream BIG. Key thing to remember: The ONLY way you can be stopped long term, is if you are broken and bitter. Bear with me a few more points for better detail.

4. Cut your land expenditure to about 1/3 of what it is. Seriously. Drop to about 4096m. It may shake out a few people you 'thought' were friends, but... nasty as that is, all the better. Your true blue friends will still be there.

5. Take about 1024m, set it aside, price and sell your items there. $L 30 a week in Search, $L 50 a week in Find, and get on both SLExchange and SLBoutique. Put a few things out - not just a picture, let people see what you've got.

6. You are carefully holding back on your idea, presumably to keep competition out. Don't bother. You already have competition out there, whatever it is. I sure did when I got started; it's still there now... so what? Nobody will do *your* thing better than *you*. Talk about it, let it capture people's imagination... and you will have a group of like-minded individuals dying to help. The benefit of talking about your idea is greater than the risks.

7. Don't solve the world's problems for your group. Land costs money; so be it. Fact of life. If people want to contribute to funds or group tier - great. If they can't - great. Whatever it is, what will be, will be. Just don't let em ride ya for it will only lead to frustration and trouble.

8. Take your little flagship business and grow it, and if you need land you can either a) finance a sim with your store readily enough if you do well, or b) get the growing group to all chip in for land. In either case, you always do what you love and it doesn't cost you money. And, you'll have more fun building it up slowly and watching it grow, than any other way.


All of this learned from 100% experience. Just one man's opinion, take for what it's worth.

One great advantage about working in a more public sandbox is that if you see someone who has managed something with a prim that you couldn't figure out how to do on your own.. all you have to do is ask them! Most good builders have no problem sharing tips, tricks and some odd concepts, because, heck, you might have some they don't know. It's how I learned a lot of what I know about building.

And, as they said, sell some of the land you have and start from a smaller stand point. I still only have my 512, which is now mostly taken up by my shop, but it's now supporting itself with a little help from good old SLB and SLEx and I do all my building in sandboxes.

FD, my experience with renting on islands has been great - I have been fortunate to have had fair and friendly estate owners. But you have to make a choice with regard to the land. If you can't afford it, you can't afford it, and your group needs to step up to the plate or you all will pay another way when you encounter that which pushes you to pull the plug.

I saw something but not sure if it's a scam or safe.
Allowing people to rent for my extra tier.
Example Joe Schmo is got spot he really wants next to his land, he got the money but he doesn't want to also pay the extra 25 tier that is 2 weeks away until the following month.
He gives me the money I use it for the teir I have already. After he pays the tier for upcoming month I sell it back to him for 0 or whatever was the negogated rent price the other person had listed .06 per meter. I have done this for my friend for nothing to 100L.
The only thing is issue of "trust"
Most of people don't know me. So why would I trust them, nor should they trust me.
There too many scam artist out there.
My friends trust me that are closest to me. One loaned me 74k in Lindens that I paying 10k a month back, I am paying her also 6k for the loan so it comes out to be about 80k.
Plus the person who loaned me money built incredibly beautiful stagehouse and is incredibly brillant, always willing to help whenever I ask.
She has moved to her own land even though I made her co-owner of the group.
I guess we all need time alone with our prims sometimes.
Most of members do geniunely help me with things like I am stumped.
I got new member who is building this incredible building, Another who is gifted avatar builder and weapon builder he often volunteers at NCI inbetween help me when he is online if I get stuck.
He said if I can wait seven months there is a friend who is on teen grid he knows who is master scripter to help with projects.
Another who is budding script writer and has quite a following with her classical concerts she performs and wire music in to sl.
Another who is beautiful designer who built the most beautiful faerie village with prefabs, provides free shop space to all who wish ask for it and is one of the most sweetest women I have ever met.
They all are incredibly special and likeable people.
I guess the dream isn't about making the next buck but building a community, true friendships, etc.
From that my dream is flat fee community where you can pay not just for land but services, be it highly skilled and developed textures, clothings, home, furniture, enterntainment related event, neighbors who care for flat fee you shop at virtual grocery or clothing store, consult a skill designer, home builder, even have home totally decorated, built, decorated, high detailed wall textures with plants, script kitchens for whole lot less.
Fee would cover the cost of land, the tier, the builders, designers, crafts people and entertainment cost.
On top of it to prevent lag, the community would have control access only certain guest could be there, only certain amount of residents could reside.
Renters aka residents would have say on what happens on land, what it look liked.
They also be responsible for being considerate to their neighbors and building projects they did.
They would have say in what happens and what is created, geniunely care and want to know their neighbors yet not be noisey and gossipy.
The business within sim would be geniuely gifted crafted people who care about what they create, create quality products and aren't concerned with getting highest dollar for those products but geninuely want to interact with those who are using their products and see how they are appreciated.
Perhaps its just impossible dream but its my dream.
I just need to figure out how to put it all together.
I have not yet found one island owner or large land owner who can or is willing to provide that type of community.

I understand how to find video card drivers but I always wonder if I have the right one.
How do I figure out the Sim Statistics? I have seen it but never quite understood it.
What settings should I have to prevent unnecessary lag?
I can get notecards for some reason when I am sent them I get error message saying not enough data or something strange like that all week.

For video card drivers go to Nvidia or ATI direct. Get the latest. If it doesn't work out, roll back the driver, but 99% of the time you are better off.

Nvidia has that nasty resolution issue where if you have a widescreen flat panel you have to do some silly nonsense to keep your preferred resolution, but it's solvable after some fuss.


Sim statistics: most important is time dilation which should be above .90, ideally about .97 to .99, and SIM FPS (not client FPS!) which should be around 44 - 45. If either of these numbers are below those values you've got server side lag relating to the sim you are in.

Get someone to restart the sim (private estate owner, or our service provider) or find one that isn't horribly lagged.

You may also have clientside lag (settings turned waaay up like high object detail, high draw distance &c) - just slam all your settings to minimum and turn stuff back up until you find you just can't take the lag any more.

Finally, the notecard thing is asset server lag - not to do with you, it will clear up when it does, and not much we can do about it. Except not hammer the database for searches and stuff...