Is this gambling?

Hi!! All

My english is not very good, but i understand, from linden blog...

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It is a violation of this policy to wager in games in the Second Life (R) environment operated on Linden Lab servers if such games:

(1) (a) rely on chance or random number generation to determine a winner, OR (b) rely on the outcome of real-life organized sporting events,

AND

(2) provide a payout in

(a) Linden Dollars, OR

(b) any real-world currency or thing of value.
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that a game only violate the policy if it complies both conditions, not only one... rely on chance or random number AND provide payout IN...

Then...

If i place in my land a game, in wich, players have to pay some L$ to be able to play it; the game is based in its abilities (for example, how fast can they run, or how accurate are they shotting a gun..., or something similar...), not in chance or a random number and the prize is the jackpot paid by the players... Is this a violation of the policy?

If yes... and if the "scripted box" that gets paid by the players is not responsible to give to the winner the prize and is the owner of the game or the land who have to give the prize to the winner in person? Is this a violation of the policy?

Lindens... residents are waiting for some answers...

Yes, if you pay to play and you win a prize that has value, its banned.

This includes on your own land you own/rent from LL.

But a game of skill does not meet the first condition: it's not based on random numbers or a RL sporting event.

My interpretation says no, not banned.

The description says about random chance, AND a payout of value, not or. So, it needs to be both.

A game of skill is NOT a game of chance, therefore does not meet BOTH criteria. It is not a gamble, it is a contest. Different things. A pay to enter contest, that pays out a prize to the winner, is not banned in the USA is it? As long as it's determined by skill, it's not gambling.

I've also heard contests run by clubs for costumes are also coming under this heading. should'nt do, as gambeling, by definition, requires a stake to be risked, and these contests are mostly free to enter.

And I've heard camping comes under too. Nope, it's a, clearly defined task performed for a pre-agreed sum. Not gambeling either.

The rule makes exception for games of skill. See Items 3(1)(a) and 5 in the blog. If the winner is based on skills as opposed to random selection, such as in a contest of shooting as the original poster indicated, then it is acceptable as these two references read.

I've seen some debate about the game "Greedy Greedy". This one might be a somewhat gray area, but as a player myself, I will tell you that skill plays a major part in winning this game. You are competing against others and have to know the rules. And if you are skilled at it, you CAN beat their socks off . I do not believe this one would be banned based on these provisions as the winners are NOT randomly selected.

Admittedly, this could be muddy water, since the same might be said for Poker and it was specifically mentioned. Come on Lindens, Poker, played in a group of people, is a game of skill. Nothing random about it. So clarify please.

There is skill involved, but poker is a form a gambling. Every card-based casino game is.

I would think that if you have any inkling of doubt, then take the safe way, and don't pay to play

Everyone knows legalese "logic" is not always the same as Bolean logic right?

The ban doesnt necessarily have to include both condition 1 and one of the other conditions.

It may just have to include any of the above.

Poker and card games are considered gambling even though they can require skill. This is because every hand is based upon the luck of the draw.

According to how I read the legal mumbo jumbo there, I'd say pay to play is fine as long as it's not a game of chance.

I'd make sure before I invested too much time or money into it though. Good luck, hope your idea succeeds.

Brandi...xxx

It says it clear as day: If a winner is not chosen based on a random number generation, or RL sporting event, then it doesn't fall under this policy. Period. Lindens need better lawyers. Maybe some that actually went to law school.

Except for that fact that online gambling is illegal in the US, and Poker is gambling, and that they specifically mentioned Poker, it technically is an OK game under this policy. Winner is not chosen at random, but rather from skill. The cards that the player is given are random, but that didn't determine the winner. If there's 3 players vs 4 players at a table, than can affect the outcome based on if a player folds or raises, etc.

If you're a programmer, you'll understand this:

if ((1a==TRUE || 1b==TRUE) && (2a==TRUE || 2b==TRUE))
{
Falls under policy
}
else
{
Doesn't fall under policy
}

It must meet at least one item from 1 AND one item from 2 for it to fall under this policy.

The written policy is an attempt to deliver a message to SL members that LL won't allow what LL considers gambling when LL decides on a case by case basis.

Basically, if anyone anywhere considers some activity gambling, LL can ban that activity, without regard to whether it falls under the policy as presented. They may amend the written policy, they may not.

LL provides SL around the world. What is and is not gambling is subject to the SUM of the body of opinion.

LL are in violation of their own policy on this. You wanna gamble ? Try login on!

I think it depends on how the results are calculated. For example a shooting game could still be based on random number generation to determine if the player has scored a hit or not. That would be banned. If, on the other hand, hits are calculated by whether or not they've aimed correctly (calculated on a vector instead of a random number) then I think that would be allowed. Depends on what's going on "under the hood" so to speak.

Sploders banned?

\

Sploders are based on random number generators AND pay a prize in L$

Therefore, are banned.

As others have said, as long as the winner is determined by skill (even if the target is placed by random chance), then it's not a violation of the policy.


This part would still be a violation (but it's moot given that the answer to the first question is no). It doesn't matter how the winner gets the prize. Of course, it would be much harder for LL to catch and enforce this approach.

Yes.

If this is the case, then that means that all policies are worthless, and that LL can do whatever they want.

They can't release a policy and enforce it based on how they want to enforce it. They have to enforce that policy based on how they wrote it, or face legal recourse from their actions.

Unfortunatly the law will not allow you to enforce a Illegal activity, nor compensate you when one party suddenly decides to ban an illegal activitity that you had previously engaged in.

Trying to get Comped by the courts for your investment in SL for them suddenly banning an acctivity that was presumably illegal to start with will only get you charged for court fees if your lucky.

Not exactly.

The LL policy, as written, fails to take into account games that are a combination of skill and chance. I believe the Federal law prompting the policy punts the issue, by relying on state laws. While I don't know for sure, I'm guessing that the answers around Poker and other card games that involve skill varies from state to state.

The one test I've seen mentioned is which is the dominant factor, skill or chance. This is likely to be some sort of judgement call, though I don't know if this would be decided by judge, jury, or regulators. It could even vary between online and in-person events, because much of the skill in face-to-fact poker is reading body language and disguising your own, aspects that are non-existent online. And poker machines are a third case, much more likely to be considered one of chance, not skill.

I don't expect to see LL clarify their position on these sorts of games anytime soon. Personally, I think that games like poker and other card games are likely to be banned, but games like races and shooting matches should be ok.