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Preview 1.9.1.22 Recall

Lee Linden
llBuildMonkey();
Join date: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 743
05-05-2006 16:18
There's a funky bug in Preview 1.9.1.22 that causes the screen to be painted in big splashes of red, green, yellow, and black when shaders are enabled. In addition, toggling shaders on causes a crash.

We've pulled this release from the autoupdater and website. If you're having preview issues, check the lower-right corner of your login screen. If you're using 1.9.1.22, uninstall it, then get the release available at http://secondlife.com/preview .
Gwyneth Llewelyn
Winking Loudmouth
Join date: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 1,336
05-05-2006 17:48
BTW, Lee, is the autoupdater for the Mac version working at all? While it seems to be correctly identifying the "correct" version to download (at this moment, 1.9.1.21), and it even launches the autouploader app, I never manage to get it to start the download at all. I have always to do it manually from http://secondlife.com/community/preview.php. It's a minor "bug", but as it seems you're planning to support several heteregenous grids, there might be a bug somewhere when the autouploader requests a Mac version for the SIVA grid :)

FYI: no release notes for 1.9.1.21 at the Wiki, either (sorry, I know I'm being a nuisance today!)
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Milo Linden
Quality Assurance
Join date: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 140
05-05-2006 18:39
I've noticed that too, the updater does work, just the progress indicator doesnt.
Gwyneth Llewelyn
Winking Loudmouth
Join date: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 1,336
05-06-2006 05:21
Ah, thanks, Milo... so if I had waited for a bit, the application would have been transferred, in spite of the "progress bar" not showing up? Hmm. I'll try to be patient the next time :) ... if there is a "next time" before the official launch of 1.9.1 on Wednesday, of course.
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Jopy Weber
Pizza assembler
Join date: 25 Nov 2003
Posts: 46
05-06-2006 05:37
hmm.. its just me or the 1.9.1.21 file is corrupted?
I tried several times, and the executable does not start...
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bacini bacini (kisses kisses) - Jopy
Skalligrim Tripp
Registered User
Join date: 4 May 2006
Posts: 15
No better
05-06-2006 14:10
It works, for what thats worth - if there is the least bit of construction in my view, the client slows to a crawl; anything more complex than a few balls on the ground and it becomes completely hogtied.

What I want to know is, where is the tradeoff between a relatively useable client and introducing a phantom-only object type? And has anyone looked at resolving the problems with intersim communications that are causing massive problems with telporting, IM, and Non-physical vehicles?

I am currently able to use only an alt account (this one) because my primary account (Farfletched Ixchel) is screwed up due to a crash that occurred while I was, you guessed it, telporting.


Is anyone listening?

Fletch/Skalligrim
Karen Linden
Dev. Program Manager
Join date: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 396
Working on these issues now...
05-07-2006 01:24
The teleport issues are being worked on now. We made some changes to the way sims talk to each other, and teleport has been affected for some users. This obviously is *very* important!

Look for a 1.9.1.23 early Monday that will address these problems, as well as the bug in 1.9.1.22 that borked the viewer (old files weren't removed on an upgrade install, and those files caused the client to become hopelessly confused). In addition, we are working hard to address the slowdown in the Mac Intel client that was introduced in 1.9.1.20.

More updates on Monday!
Skalligrim Tripp
Registered User
Join date: 4 May 2006
Posts: 15
Mac Intel?
05-07-2006 04:50
I don't have one.

Dual 1.25 GHz PPC w/1GB RAM
80 GB HD
ATI Rage 9000 64MB
19" generic LCD
Its run SL great up until 1.9.x

1.9.1:
non-physics vehicles broken
Telport is dangerous
Attachments missing at log in
Crashes constantly out of the blue and wont let you log back in for 5 mins

1.9.2x:
UNUSABLY Slow. I dont mean 'performance issues'; I mean lagged to a dead
stop in the presence of construction involving more than just a couple prims.

My .02: roll it back. Roll it back to 1.8.x. Go back to the drawing board. Admit there's big problems and go fix them. This is not progress. This is shooting yourself in the foot.

Oh and by the way - my installs were not 'borked' by an old install. There were no prior versions installed, except production, and if a pre-existing production install is interfereing with preview code, then you have bigger problems than I would have guessed.

Cheers
Skalligrim/Fletch

BTW I am sorry to have so much bad things to say. I have really enjoyed my SL experience to-date; I am very concerned that things are being done with the code that will force me out of the picture; I'd be miserable were this to happen.
Doc Nielsen
Fallen...
Join date: 13 Apr 2005
Posts: 1,059
05-07-2006 05:57
I checked preview out a few days ago and was deeply disappointed, I communicated my fears of the likely result if 1.9.1 was released as it then was to a senior Linden who'd asked for feedback.

Seeing this thread I decided to take another look and I'm not impressed to see that performance seems further reduced:

AMD FX57
2 Gb low latency fast RAM
single nVidia 7900 GTX 512Mb

Standing fps in a 'built up' sim 9-12 fps! BUT, move and it drops to 4-6 fps... This with no other AVs in the sim too.

OK, so I have everything maxed and draw set at 200 - but that's how I run on the main grid (well, no local lighting of course and disable far clip off) and get at least TWICE that fps WITHOUT the jerky slowdown (occlusion culling methinks) when I move. :-(

And if I can't run maxed out in 1.9.1 with my setup - what's the point of having all the shiny new goodies? More to the point, what about the vast majority of customers with lower spec machines?

Clearly 1.9.1 is NOT anywhere near right at this point, and I for one would like to see it put back on the shelf for a month or so for further development.

Watching LL prepare to unleash it on SL is rather like watching the Titanic bearing down on that iceberg...

Having suffered through the 1.7 debacle I think I'll probably take 2-4 weeks break if 1.9.1 is released next week as rumoured. I really don't need that sort of grief again...
_____________________
All very well for people to have a sig that exhorts you to 'be the change' - I wonder if it's ever occurred to them that they might be something that needs changing...?
Ron Overdrive
Registered User
Join date: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 1,002
05-07-2006 06:08
Hey Doc, my guess why you're running so slow is one of two reason:

Either A) you're drivers aren't as up to date as you think (current Forceware is really 84.56, not the 84.21 on the site). Also give Tweaks-R-Us's XTreme-G 3rd party drivers a go and tweak your profiles a bit. I have and I'm really impressed.

Or B) the lack of Drop Draw Distance is whats plaguing you. My guess is DDD and OC don't like to play nicely with one another and since OC is the new toy of theirs DDD was dropped.
Doc Nielsen
Fallen...
Join date: 13 Apr 2005
Posts: 1,059
05-07-2006 07:25
From: Ron Overdrive
Hey Doc, my guess why you're running so slow is one of two reason:

Either A) you're drivers aren't as up to date as you think (current Forceware is really 84.56, not the 84.21 on the site). Also give Tweaks-R-Us's XTreme-G 3rd party drivers a go and tweak your profiles a bit. I have and I'm really impressed.

Or B) the lack of Drop Draw Distance is whats plaguing you. My guess is DDD and OC don't like to play nicely with one another and since OC is the new toy of theirs DDD was dropped.



Well the system's a couple of weeks old, all the drivers are the latest, I neither care to play about with third party drivers, nor have to to, to provide perfectly 'adequate' :-) performance on the main grid - so why should I in preview?

My usual comment: Shouldn't an 'upgrade' deliver an increased performance? WHY can't LL understand this simple concept?

Regarding Drop Draw Distance, there IS a 'Draw Distance' setting now in Preview, which I set to my customary 200m...

I think you are right about OC - it's the latest toy, so everything else (including client performance) is ignored so OC can be sold as the 'next new thing'. Sadly it's awful. The IDEA is good, sensible even. but the execution is not satisfactory by a long chalk, not unless you plan on spending your time in SL standing still...
_____________________
All very well for people to have a sig that exhorts you to 'be the change' - I wonder if it's ever occurred to them that they might be something that needs changing...?
Becky Tardis
Registered User
Join date: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 98
05-07-2006 08:38
New systems do not come with the latest drivers, they come with what ever driver Microcrap had on their hands when they made XP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Becky Tardis
Registered User
Join date: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 98
05-07-2006 08:40
From: Skalligrim Tripp
I don't have one.

Dual 1.25 GHz PPC w/1GB RAM
80 GB HD
ATI Rage 9000 64MB
19" generic LCD
Its run SL great up until 1.9.x


Rage video cards are not supported by SL.

From: FAQ

link
Unfortunately, if your graphics card includes any of the following words, it's NOT compatible with Second Life.
Incompatible cards: Intel, Intel Extreme, 3DFX, RIVA, TNT, SiS, S3, S3TC, Savage, Twister, Rage, Kyro, Volari, XGI, MILENNIA, most cards by MATROX.
-CUT-
ATI cards that report as a RAGE or RAGE PRO are not compatible with Second Life.
Doc Nielsen
Fallen...
Join date: 13 Apr 2005
Posts: 1,059
05-07-2006 08:45
Seeing as I built the system from scratch, and Micro$oft only include the most basic graphics drivers anyway, and the graphics card manufacturer (BFG) does recommend downloading the latest drivers too, shall we just go with the concept that I have a couple of functioning brain cells? :cool:

When I say I have the latest available drivers, I mean I have the latest available drivers - and main grid performance is as amazingly good with them as preview performance is completely unacceptable.
_____________________
All very well for people to have a sig that exhorts you to 'be the change' - I wonder if it's ever occurred to them that they might be something that needs changing...?
Skalligrim Tripp
Registered User
Join date: 4 May 2006
Posts: 15
Unsupported...
05-07-2006 09:39
From: Becky Tardis
Rage video cards are not supported by SL.


Whether or not they are officially supported, does it make any sense to deliberately take steps that alienate (read render incapacitated, or, effectively ban) the users who get satisfactory performance out of them anyway?

Especially considering its stock, off-the-shelf equipment from Apple...
...The bottom line is, the video card works fine up until 1.9.1.21; and after that, there are critical issues. And I am not at all willing to hold the video card responsible in the first place; so your response that my card is not supported is more than a bit tedious.


Skalligrim
Ron Overdrive
Registered User
Join date: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 1,002
05-07-2006 10:25
From: Doc Nielsen
Seeing as I built the system from scratch, and Micro$oft only include the most basic graphics drivers anyway, and the graphics card manufacturer (BFG) does recommend downloading the latest drivers too, shall we just go with the concept that I have a couple of functioning brain cells? :cool:

When I say I have the latest available drivers, I mean I have the latest available drivers - and main grid performance is as amazingly good with them as preview performance is completely unacceptable.


Now by latest drivers do we mean those found on nVidia's website (Forceware 84.21) or the leaked Forceware 84.56? Also I recomend using 3rd party over OEM anyways just because they're faster in general. I also play other games besides SL so I like to squeeze every bit of performance I can get. No ones saying you have to use 3rd party drivers, there are other ways, but its a popular alternative.

Also there's a difference between Drop Draw Distance and the Draw Distance option. Draw Distance is the radius around you that your system will draw and has been around before 1.9.1, Drop Draw Distance is an option to reduce the Draw Distance when your local FPS drops below a predefined rate when you have Disable Far Clip turned off. On the main grid your system is set for 200, in reality its probly drawing more like 128 -148. In the preview, since there is no DDD, you're drawing at 200 all the time.
Doc Nielsen
Fallen...
Join date: 13 Apr 2005
Posts: 1,059
05-07-2006 10:51
From: Ron Overdrive
Now by latest drivers do we mean those found on nVidia's website (Forceware 84.21) or the leaked Forceware 84.56? Also I recomend using 3rd party over OEM anyways just because they're faster in general. I also play other games besides SL so I like to squeeze every bit of performance I can get. No ones saying you have to use 3rd party drivers, there are other ways, but its a popular alternative.

Also there's a difference between Drop Draw Distance and the Draw Distance option. Draw Distance is the radius around you that your system will draw and has been around before 1.9.1, Drop Draw Distance is an option to reduce the Draw Distance when your local FPS drops below a predefined rate. On the main grid your system is set for 200, in reality its probly drawing more like 128 -148. In the preview, since there is no DDD, you're drawing at 200 all the time.


The latest official drivers. Leaked/hackware/betas are not something I'm keen on. I like stuff to work reliably.

Drop Draw 200 if fps<15 on the main grid - as far as Preview is concerned, well, it's so beautifully documented who knows?

It doesn't drop draw distance anywhere on the main grid I've been using this machine.

The fact is that in an empty preview sim I'm seeing about half the fps that I see on the main grid. And that's with no AVs about. Plus I'm getting these horrible jerky fps drops when I move and OC suddenly realises something it should be rendering has come into 'view'.

Anyway, np, I'll take a break for as long as it takes to restore performance to acceptable levels after Wednesday - if they can't *shrug*, well 1.7 damn nearly made me leave, this might do the trick.
_____________________
All very well for people to have a sig that exhorts you to 'be the change' - I wonder if it's ever occurred to them that they might be something that needs changing...?
Skalligrim Tripp
Registered User
Join date: 4 May 2006
Posts: 15
Update
05-07-2006 17:21
As per the advice of the Macintosh Users group in-world, I went to atitech.com and upgraded my drivers. This has made a considerable improvement in performance (read overall speed) in both the preview and the current production client.

This gives me some degree of hope. We'll see how it goes, I suppose.

BTW, in spite of what crystal space build environement my report, the card I have appears to be an 'ATI Radeon 9000 Pro'.

Cheers,
Fletch
Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
05-08-2006 16:50
From: Becky Tardis
Rage video cards are not supported by SL.
There is no "Rage 9000". The OP must have meant "Radeon 9000".
Usagi Musashi
UM ™®
Join date: 24 Oct 2004
Posts: 6,083
05-08-2006 17:16
I updated those non GC drivers and they seem to be worker. _But why a 512 GC? OMG talk about over kill for this game.

BTW does anyone know why My client does not see the 3giga of memory? Instead it shows only 2 giga?!
Eep Quirk
Absolutely Relative
Join date: 15 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,211
05-09-2006 00:11
OK, so, the SL History Wiki's Preview Release Notes show up to SL 1.9.1.24 but I just logged into the preview and it didn't prompt be to upgrade. Have versions .23 and .24 been pulled too? :/
FireFox Bancroft
Registered User
Join date: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 134
05-09-2006 00:23
From: Eep Quirk
OK, so, the SL History Wiki's Preview Release Notes show up to SL 1.9.1.24 but I just logged into the preview and it didn't prompt be to upgrade. Have versions .23 and .24 been pulled too? :/


Its a manual update.
http://secondlife.com/community/preview.php
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Eep Quirk
Absolutely Relative
Join date: 15 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,211
05-09-2006 00:29
OK, thanks, but that doesn't explain why, if .23 and .24 aren't "borked", they can't go on the auto-updater...