First Group Meeting Notes

Jeska Linden: Ok we're still missing a few people who aren't online -- but we'll start without them and if they join us, even better :)
Jim Lumiere: can we charge them late fees?
Travis Lambert: hehe
Jeska Linden: *g*
Jeska Linden: only if we charge 'em in Lindens ;)
Maczter Oddfellow: heheh
Maczter Oddfellow: deal
Jim Lumiere: is there any other currency?
Maczter Oddfellow shrugs
Maczter Oddfellow: scooby snacks?
Travis Lambert: !
Jim Lumiere: LOL
Coal Nelson: Heh.
Jeska Linden: First, I wanted to clarify that in these small group meetings we're looking at covenants and group tools as separate, although interrelated issues.
Kristian Ming: it's all ones and zeros anyway. the paper stuff is worthless if the central banks aren't solvent on the netowkrs. :)
Travis Lambert: Are we intending to cover both topics, Jeska?
Robin Linden: excuse me one sec....
Jeska Linden: There is currently a project underway to help imrpove the group tools, which includes 2 separate phases.
Robin Linden: I have to go -- I'm really sorry, but I was double booked.
Jeska Linden waves at Robin
Robin Linden: I'll be available for questions, if there are any\
Travis Lambert: kk Robin
Daniel Linden: No worries, I'm happy to speak about Groups as well.
Robin Linden: Jeska and Daniel have the group tools summary
Jeska Linden: But these conversations were really jump-started by the interest in covenants and zoning :)
Khamon Fate: dy'all mind if i sit in? promise not to talk
Jeska Linden: Daniel -
Robin Linden: bye everybody. my apologies!
Jeska Linden: Go head Khamon.
Daniel Linden: As Jeska suggested, the concpets of Groups improvements and Covenants are not really very strongly related....
Daniel Linden: ....but we'll happy speak to both topics.
Daniel Linden: First, about Groups and where we're headed with that:
Daniel Linden: The upcoming round of improvements will focus on fixes and enhancments....
Daniel Linden: ...rather than the introduction of any new 'features'.
Travis Lambert: Could you give an example of an 'enhancement' vs. a 'feature', Daniel? I thought that was sort of the same thing :D
Daniel Linden: More specifically, there should be revisions to UI and dialogs to make using Groups less unpleasant and more intuitive....
Molly Montale: tomorrow's upgrade?
Daniel Linden: ...with the largest effort going into providing improvements into the granting of powers and permission to those in a Group.
Daniel Linden: For instance, you'll no longer be confined to Officers will complete control and Memebers with none.
Kristian Ming: More of an exposure of the underlying work to the group officers and founders?
Daniel Linden: There will be more nuance....
Kristian Ming nods.
Daniel Linden: ...and the chance to grant specific rights to specific people.
Travis Lambert: But that's coming later - or thats in the first phase, Daniel?
Daniel Linden: It seems minor, I suppose, but it should make Groups much, much more useful.
Travis Lambert: that's just what you missed, Tiger :)
Daniel Linden: That's 'Phase One'.
Travis Lambert: *Swoons*
Tiger Crossing: Oh, thanks, Travis. :)
Daniel Linden: It's in progress now, and will likely emerge in a couple of months.
Daniel Linden: Questions about that?
Tiger Crossing accepted your inventory offer.
Travis Lambert: I'm really concerned about my existing groups, Daniel
Travis Lambert: Will they port over?
Daniel Linden: Yes, but I can't be very specific, as the details haven't been completed.
Travis Lambert: Understood. Just wanted to prepare myself :)
Daniel Linden: How you'll move to the new tools is not yet decided.
Jeska Linden: Above all, this is an improvement, so we will be sure to test it ;)
Travis Lambert: hehe
Kristian Ming: how fine of a granularity? do you have an example of general areas? for instance based on the blueprint can i make it so group money doesn't go to members? or even other officers?
Maczter Oddfellow mumbles "preview grid" under his breathe
Daniel Linden: That's the right direction, Kris.
Maczter Oddfellow: breath*
Kristian Ming: excellent.
Tiger Crossing: Sounds like you may have read my posts, Kristian?
Travis Lambert: So - hypothetically, I could group my land (as group founder) - and not have to worry about an officer selling the land without my approval?
Daniel Linden: It's not done, so I can't say 'exactly', but the idea is that you'd be able to create a 'treasurer' role that could handle money, but not sell land....
Travis Lambert: that's awesome, Daniel
Daniel Linden: ....or a Land Manager who couldn't empty the bank account.
Kristian Ming: Tiger, yes.
Travis Lambert: I'm literally drooling, Daniel
Tiger Crossing: So you can define sub-divisions of the group by way of specific access to permissions...?
Kristian Ming: I'm swooning with Travis if that's even half true in the implementation.
Travis Lambert: hehehe
Jim Lumiere: you said that was phase 1? You have some info on phase 2?
Daniel Linden: How that happen in the UI....not yet sure.
Daniel Linden: Phase Two addresses finding Groups, Group activity, and Groups used to operate businesses....
Daniel Linden: ...but there isn't much detail to provide on that.
Travis Lambert: It sounds like Phase I adresses *some* buisness concerns already, Daniel - with the specialized Officer roles
Daniel Linden: We're still working on Phase One, obviously.
Tiger Crossing: How about communications? Right now, goups can talk to online members, or use a vote as a hack to send a message to everyone. (Something i've even see Lindens do. :)
Travis Lambert: good point
Tiger Crossing: Any plans there?
Jim Lumiere: Are we going to get m ore groups .. or different kinds of groups .. like for family and social as well as business and communcation needs?
Daniel Linden: Likely in Phase Two.
Daniel Linden: Something like that MIGHT sneak in sooner, but it's not the current focus.
Tiger Crossing: An organization without communication gets rather messy, as we've seen... Well, at least it becomes rather impersonal.
Jim Lumiere: I've had to give up nearly all social groups to conduct business .. that is really irritating
Kristian Ming: Any word on more groups? Some of my associates have begged me to use an existing group for a project even though the membership wasn't exactly compatible.
Travis Lambert: And too much... turns into spam. It is a mess atm :(
Daniel Linden: Valid points; I'll make sure that they're discussed.
Coal Nelson: What about limitations on the ability to IM everyone in the group? will that be in phse 1, too?
Smuk Zaftig: I dread joining groups just for tha t reason
Maczter Oddfellow: ditto
Travis Lambert: A lot of folks feel that way
Daniel Linden: I don't know if group IM will be affected in the current work; we're focused on a improving the Groups infrastracture.....
Tiger Crossing: Too much or too little is the way of it. :)
Daniel Linden: ....to enable future enhancments.
Tiger Crossing: It sounds like a good first step, Daniel.
Salem Penguin accepted your inventory offer.
Smuk Zaftig: Indeed
Coal Nelson nods.
Daniel Linden: Some of the finer details might not get implemented now....
Daniel Linden: ...but the structure of Groups should make them more flexible to use....
Maczter Oddfellow: excellent
Tiger Crossing: Granular permissions on group members to define what each can and can't do, if I understand you right?
Daniel Linden: ...and easier to modify in the future.
Jim Lumiere: What is the rationale behind the limit to the number of groups now .. is it artificial? Or technical?
Daniel Linden: Yes, Tiger, there will be a facility to grant specific rights to specific members....
Daniel Linden: It's a technical constraint.
Daniel Linden: Though that doesn't mean that theres a good reason!
Travis Lambert: Are the Treasurer & Land Manager functions the only specialized roles you know about so far, Daniel?
Tiger Crossing: I thing YOU can make the positions whatever you want, by defining what the can and can't do.
Daniel Linden: Removing that limit is oft discussed, and I'm certain that the cap will move at some point.
Tiger Crossing: think&
Jim Lumiere: thanks .. the message I've been asked to convey is that we need more groups
Jim Lumiere: the number mentioned was "a billion"
Smuk Zaftig: ha
Jim Lumiere: but he exagerates
Travis Lambert: hehe
Jim Lumiere: still ..
Daniel Linden: Travis, Tiger -- the implemetation isn't done....it may be title, tick boxes, defined roles....
Travis Lambert: gotcha.... I was just going to ask: - has there been discussions regarding: What if I want to delegate, say.... Two (or more) Land Managers.
Daniel Linden: You'll be able grant rights in a more specific manner, but I can't say what the UI will look like.
Travis Lambert: understood
Tiger Crossing: I'd like to suggst, if you can pass it on, that when they make the interface for those checkboxes or whatever, that it is done in a way that can easily support more added later. :)
Daniel Linden: Very sensible indeed!
Jim Lumiere: If you make pre-defined roles .. something in security would be good .. they wouldn't need land management .. just powers to evict, etc
Kristian Ming: That'll be the wizardry, finding the right combo of power and ease. An overwhelming interface might be more trouble than the current group limits.
Daniel Linden: The goal is maximum flexibiltiy.
Tiger Crossing: Unless there are a TON of options, I don't see presets being needed. :)
Travis Lambert: Is the ability to Return Objects from a parcel in there, Daniel?
Daniel Linden: I hope so.
Tiger Crossing: If it wasn't in their list, that's a good example of needing to add more later, Travis. :)
Travis Lambert: The reason I ask: I desperately want that. But I can see some complexity there.... what If i want my volunteers to be able to return objects....
Travis Lambert: But not return *my* objects.... so the build can't be accidentally returned, for example
Travis Lambert: hehe true, Tiger :)
Jeska Linden: As I understand, we're really hoping to add as much flexibility to who has what types of permissions as possible
Jeska Linden: With increased communication being a high priority.
Tiger Crossing: Have either of you, Jeska, Daniel, read the thread I started int he Groups discussion forum? It's focused hevily on permissions both in general and (mainly) as they relate to groups.
Daniel Linden: I've not read it yet, but it is actually on my List!
Tiger Crossing: I'm also cleaning up the ideas as I go and putting them in a blog http://www.tigercrossing.com/blog/
Tiger Crossing: But I only started that today.
Daniel Linden: In answer to any questions related to the design of this feature, I'll say that work is just getting started, and there are more unknowns than code.....
Daniel Linden: ....so we'll keep you posted.
Travis Lambert: So what kinds of things would you like to hear from us? Or was this intended more to be a Q&A smaller townhall?
Daniel Linden: QA, Roundtable....I'm hear to listen, but I'm more than willing to answer questions.
Daniel Linden: I came to speak about Covenants and Estates...if there's interest in that subject.
Maczter Oddfellow nods
Tiger Crossing: I've never owned an island myself, so I'm not clear on the current details of those.
Jim Lumiere: Well, I just want to make the point again that we need more than one kind of group .. this one size fits all /pinches/ more than it comforts
Kristian Ming: Yes, that really seems to be the more alluring topic.
Daniel Linden: Jim, I think we'll lean towards making Groups flexible enough to work in a variety of ways....
Maczter Oddfellow: will these covenants apply to mainland sims?
Daniel Linden: ...rather than setting out pre-defined Group Types.
Maczter Oddfellow: i think that's the way to go, daniel
Travis Lambert: I hope so - that also extends the posbility that I can keep my existing groups intact, and merely set permissions as founder
Daniel Linden: In a sentance, Covenants are a way for Estate Owners to express a set of Local Standards.....
Molly Montale: The people that I represent are mainly interested in the covenant zoning. I'm hoping you get to that, too.
Tiger Crossing: In short, Daniel, my suggestion is to granulate permissions in general, then combine them with multiple access lists (that share a permission set) to make a group.
Daniel Linden: ...like a home-owners association might provide....
Jim Lumiere: well, dont let "flexible" roll over the point that groups serve lots of different functions for lots of different people ...
Daniel Linden: ....to set building standards....
Travis Lambert: Like Blumfield?
Maczter Oddfellow: though for simple socail groups, it might be a good idea to hgive group founders the option to stick with the existing officer member structure or access the advanced permissions on a different tab or set of tabs, etc.
Maczter Oddfellow: social*
Daniel Linden: ...it's a way for a Community to communicate it's goals, visions, or rules.
Daniel Linden: In the context of an Estate, it will allow a community to set expectations for those who choose to live there or visit.
Travis Lambert: What is the rough timeframe on Covenants/Estates.... Is that in line with Phase I of groups.... or will come later?
Daniel Linden: Covenants and Groups are not related projects.
Travis Lambert: understood. Different teams working on it, I assume?
Jim Lumiere: Did I miss the answer to if covenants are also a mainland initiative?
Smuk Zaftig: Didnt see an answer
Tiger Crossing: A Covenant sounds like just a block of text that's attached to a region of land. Thouse buying the land have to agree to it..?
Travis Lambert: Only since you can't sell Island plots.... I'd assume its inherently a mainland thing....
Daniel Linden: The ultimate goal of Covenants will be to allow Estates to chart their own course, and set and support Local Standards in addition to our global Community Standards.
Coal Nelson: What if they don't abide by it?
Daniel Linden: This is an Estate feature.
Maczter Oddfellow: he said it's for estate owners, so sounds like it won't apply to mainland
Travis Lambert: o.0
Tiger Crossing: That was my next question, Coal. :)
Molly Montale: the question is How will the covenant be enforced?
Daniel Linden: Much in the same way that Estate owners currently enforce their rules....
Tiger Crossing: Ejection, seems the only option beyond communication (warnings, etc)...
Daniel Linden: ....generally by various means of restricting access to the Estate.
Daniel Linden: The introduction of covenants will allow Estate Owners to better community and explain their Local Standarnds....
Daniel Linden: ...so that Resident might understand what the local vision is and can make better decisions.
Kristian Ming: Like a popup on connection to agree to their terms? I'm having trouble seeing this as much of an expansion on estates as they currently are.
Travis Lambert: I'm confused now, Daniel. I thought covenants were in most need on the Mainland.... Islands can create their own covenants today, no? (I'm assuming there's no such thing as a Mainland Estate)
Maczter Oddfellow: then what additional benefits will come of covenants? perhaps something like the TOS will come up that they have to agree to before purchasing the land if it's under "deed restrictions"?
Maczter Oddfellow: oops. great minds...
Travis Lambert: hehe
Daniel Linden: This is part of a larger effort to help Estates to operate more independently....
Daniel Linden: ....and to have more control over local governance.
Travis Lambert: How do you define "Estate", Daniel - is that strictly an Island thing?
Daniel Linden: A way to express their local standards in the first step.
Smuk Zaftig: yeah island
Daniel Linden: Estates are off-shore Regions, yes.
Maczter Oddfellow: if one were to buy all the land in a mainland sim, could it then be made into an estate if one so desired?
Travis Lambert: I'm not understanding how this is a big difference from today though. Can't Azure Islands enforce zoning standards the way things are now, for example?
Jim Lumiere: I dont understand that point either Travis .. sounds like the same thing they have today
Daniel Linden: We've discussed that, though it may be difficult to have differing local standards on andjacement, mainland Regions.
Molly Montale: Enforcement by blocking access rather than returning of prims?
Tiger Crossing: Sounds like the LL goal is to make them FEEL more separate. Not just a sim surrounded by water, but give them a "different country" feel with some sort of Customs experience upon visiting?
Daniel Linden: Much like 'selling' or 'renting' land on Estates, current enforcment of local standards is excercised by Estate Owners.....
Smuk Zaftig: Seems like island owners should be here to discuss
Daniel Linden: ....but they don't really have any proper way to do so.
Jim Lumiere: what is improper about their ability to eject
Travis Lambert: I understand that Covenants are strictly an Island thing. But - it seems like a bunch of development time is being spent on something with such a tiny benefit - unless I'm misunderstanding
Daniel Linden: ....eventually, they'll have the ability to actually sell land, and to handle Abuse situations on their Estates....
Jim Lumiere: Im concerned that LL is investing resources developing something that sounds a lot like what private sim owners already have
Daniel Linden: ...with proper tools.
Kristian Ming: ah, sell land
Tiger Crossing: It makes sense in the long run, Travis. Future health of SL...
Jim Lumiere: and not addressing similar issues on the mainland .. where the situation is frankly a little more pressing
Kristian Ming: i thought i saw the squint in that direction
Molly Montale: My understanding is that covenants will be aavailable to any group of indiviual land owners that band together in a gentlemen's agreement.
Taco Rubio gave you Riverwalk Vistas & Riverwalk Maz, Europa (100, 3, 31).
Travis Lambert: Apparently, only on an Island sim...
Tiger Crossing: ...Like, by making Estates more autonomous now, it paves the way to one day have open-source servers controlled by other people and not just Linden Lab.
Daniel Linden: We're investigating how to expand similar concepts on the Mainland.
Daniel Linden: ...that's the right direction, Tiger.
Tiger Crossing: Little steps in the right direction. :)
Travis Lambert: gotcha
Daniel Linden: We want to empower Estates to operate as independent, parallel visions of Second Life.
Jim Lumiere: seems like it would be better to start with the hard, complicated part on the mainland and then move to the simpler, more direct island sims
Kristian Ming: In the 'sell land' scenario, would that mean LL takes a hand acting as an agent between the landlord and the tenant in an estate situation? Instead of setting up a seperate billing agreement with them?
Daniel Linden: Probably not, we're not a billing service.
Tiger Crossing: The system would handle the transfer, but payment would have to be between the parties themselves, I'd imagine.
Daniel Linden: Yes, that is the more likely version.
Daniel Linden: A covenant is a convient way to tell a Resident about Zoning, or specific rules....
Tiger Crossing: ...Maybe getting a tighter agreement with Paypal and bulding connections to it through the Estate tools...... :)
Daniel Linden: ...in place on an indenpendent Estate:
Maczter Oddfellow: good idea, tiger.
Tiger Crossing: But one for the far future, Macster. :)
Daniel Linden: 'Prairie-style houses only on Frank Lloyd Wright Island or you'll be evicted".
Tiger Crossing: I'm just talkin'. :)
Travis Lambert: hehe
Jeska Linden: ha ;)
Jim Lumiere: Hey .. I have a dining room set that would be perfect for that
Kristian Ming: oh oh oh which estate is that?
Daniel Linden: A integrated billing API would be great.
Daniel Linden: But hard.
Tiger Crossing: I'd suggest implementing something in the UI that will indicate to someone when they enter an Estate that there is a Covenant in place, with an easy way to view it.
Travis Lambert: No chance for improved LSL functions re: Money instead?
Tiger Crossing: something better than a notecard giver with a sensor. :)
Jim Lumiere: /every/ time they enter?
Kristian Ming: you can pop it in front of them but you can't make them read it.
Jim Lumiere: that might get annoying after a while
Daniel Linden: Second Life Resident should have more options than the Linden Lab vision -- our hippy-San-Francisco-Utopia thing you see on the Mainland.
Tiger Crossing: If the indicator is like the "no build" icon at the top, and clicking it bring up the window.....
Travis Lambert: lol
Travis Lambert: Some of us *like* the Mainland :D
Daniel Linden: We want to give content creates and community builders the tools and options to create their own world in parallel to the vision we've created.
Jim Lumiere: yea .. I get tired of people bad-mouthing it .. but what you gonna do .. can't muzzle 'em
Jim Lumiere: Oh . .excuse me Trav ..
Travis Lambert: hehehe
Jim Lumiere: sorry about that
Molly Montale: wait. the first 3 people on a new sim set up a covenant and all that follow to the sim must obey?
Tiger Crossing: Not on the mainland, Molly.
Travis Lambert: This is probably a sensitive question..... But when you speak that way, Daniel - it makes me wonder... Will the mainland go away at some point?
Jim Lumiere: yikes
Tiger Crossing: This is ust slated for Estates, where one person owns the whole thing.
Daniel Linden: I don't think that's possible -- the Mainland is very compelling and will always be so.
Travis Lambert wipes sweat off brow
Maczter Oddfellow wipes his forehead
Travis Lambert: lol
Maczter Oddfellow: :)
Jim Lumiere: at least the part of it that isn't a sandbar
Travis Lambert: ha!
Daniel Linden: The mainland is where communities germinate and grow....
Tiger Crossing: Even after SL goes opensourse and everyone that wants to runs their own continent, Linden Lab will probably always have the biggest "grid" going. :)
Kristian Ming: actually the canals aren't too bad. sort of a french garden feel with the prefectly aligned rows of palm trees.
Daniel Linden: ...but in a very real sense communities on the mainland can't grow forwever -- they get hemmed in by other communities!
Molly Montale: Lauren told us earlier tonight that covenant zoning would not be made available to us in Blumfield.
Maczter Oddfellow: :(
Travis Lambert: That makes sense now, after this discussion :(
Jim Lumiere: so the mainland will continue to be "you only control what you own"
Daniel Linden: Jim, I'm not sure that's true.
Tiger Crossing: I'll think about covenants and how they'd fit into my micro-perms system of group reform (which seems to be, if not what LL plans, then at least in the same direction).
Daniel Linden: What we've discovered is that one set of tools doesn't work for both the mainland and Estates.
Maczter Oddfellow: true
Travis Lambert: I'd think tht the Estate toolset would encompass all, and Mainland would just be a subset?
Coal Nelson: More like the difference between designing something for a regular homeowner and for a landlord?
Maczter Oddfellow: and giving estate owners the power to sell land should be a very well-recieved feature
Tiger Crossing: Estate tools would be the superset.
Travis Lambert: understood
Daniel Linden: The mainland will require a different approach more directly suited to the way the Mainland works....maybe, and I think this is very possible...the improvments to gorups are part of this solution.
Tiger Crossing: Sort of, the mainland is an Estate run by Linden Lab, so those who live on it don't have access to Estate tools...
Jim Lumiere: that might be fruitful to explore
Daniel Linden: Exactly, Tiger.
Travis Lambert: aha - that makes sense
Daniel Linden: I visited a Furry Con last week....
Tiger Crossing: My vision is geared towards the mainland, though perhaps would be even MORE usefull to Estate owners....
Kristian Ming: It's still the perogative of LL to not snap off mainland sims, right? If the residents of Blumfield and West Haven got together to buy all the non-protected land and asked as a group to become an estate?
Daniel Linden: ...it was clear to me that Linden Lab couldn't build a Furry World if we tried -- we'd be miserable at it.
Daniel Linden: The same goes for any other community.
Tiger Crossing: Those CA cons are rather wild, i hear...
Daniel Linden: Our best course of action is to let the members of these community get on with what they're already doing....
Daniel Linden: ...give them the tools and get out of way.
Jim Lumiere: /power/ tools
Travis Lambert: aha
Jeska Linden: *g*
Tiger Crossing: Then I'll have to show you want I'd like to see in MY toolbox, then, Daniel. :) I'll keep writing to my new blog about it. :)
Travis Lambert: hehe
Kristian Ming fights the urge to break out his chainsaw.
Tiger Crossing: I want POOOOOOOWERRRRRRRR... :)
Daniel Linden: Tiger -- feel free to download on me -- I'm at [email]Daniel@lindenlab.com[/email].
Tiger Crossing: Will do.
Daniel Linden: Molly, Mac: Blumfield absolutely should have some way to enforce it's standards....
Daniel Linden: ...we're working on that.
Tiger Crossing: But I warn you, my idea encompasses permissions reform too, as a side effect. :)
Molly Montale: :)
Tiger Crossing: Your "list of checkboxes" expanded to objects, land, etc... :)
Daniel Linden: Maybe there's a way to spin Mainland communities off into Estates.....
Travis Lambert: That would be awesome, Daniel - if we could still remain connected somehow... that's the allure of the mainland
Tiger Crossing: With that, local Mainland land owners COULD band together with permissions control to run a community with their own form of Covenants, Laws, and Government. :)
Jeska Linden: We're almost out of time, was tehre any last questions?
Travis Lambert: Will this all be a 1.9 thing? Or that's not defined yet?
Travis Lambert: (I know you said severl months - just curious about rev)
Tiger Crossing: Yeah... Timeframe ideas would be my main query. How much time do I have to submit ideas? :)
Daniel Linden: It's not bound to a specific version....
Travis Lambert: ok
Daniel Linden: 'soonish'?
Coal Nelson: The future is bright, but it may be a long way off? ;)
Travis Lambert: hehehe
Tiger Crossing: The glint on the horrizon. :)
Jim Lumiere: Thanks for the information and the opportunity to provide some feedback
Travis Lambert: Ugh - I've got to jet. Its my night to host the game show.
Jeska Linden: Thanks for taking the time to join us :)
Jim Lumiere: and to chant "more groups, more groups"
Travis Lambert: Thanks Jeska & Daniel for putting this together - it was *incredibly* informative :)
Jeska Linden: I'll be posting this log to the forums :)
Jeska Linden: So feel free to comment more there
Kristian Ming: Are there going to be transcript posted of these? Some of them may be illuminating, others, entertaining.
Jeska Linden: /261/1.html
Jeska Linden: :)
Kristian Ming: oh, beat me to it
Jeska Linden: We will be posting all of the group meeting logs there
Tiger Crossing: Jeska has forum-fingers. :)
Jeska Linden: *g*
Molly Montale: you'll post the next 3 discuusions, too?
Kristian Ming: cool
Jeska Linden: I'm a speed typing fool
Jeska Linden: I'll be posting 'em all :)
Daniel Linden: Thanks for the questions and feedback -- email or IM me with more, if you like.

I was rather surprised by the meeting myself. Some stuff that we talked about, especially the group changes that are coming in Phase I, got me really excited.

The Covenant discussion, on the other hand - made me feel like I got it all wrong. What I thought Linden meant by Covenants was nothing of the sort.

Covenants, at least in their implementation here - appear to be much of an Island toolset that serves the goal of making SL more modular, and easier for others to make their own grids, rather than giving us better "Zoning" tools on the mainland.

I found the Q&A surprising, but Interesting.

Ditto excitement for the Phase I details. I'm a bit disappointed that group communication concerns are relegated to Phase II.

Understanding, finally, that covenants just exactly "appear to be much of an Island toolset that serves the goal of making SL more modular, and easier for others to make their own grids" has really made my day week month year decade woohoo111