Second Life Forums Archive - GOV (Gathering of Volunteers) 24 March 2006

GOV (Gathering of Volunteers) 24 March 2006
Tateru Nino Girl Genius Join date: 13 Sep 2005 Posts: 312	03-17-2006 21:45 The next GOV meeting will be at 2:30pm Friday March 24 SLT. As usual it will be at the Pooley auditorium. Send me your agenda and discussion items. Logs will be appended to this thread to minimise the thread count. Hope to see you there! _____________________
Fairge Kinsella Gravity isn't so serious! Join date: 23 Oct 2004 Posts: 158	Log 1/2 03-25-2006 13:32 Tateru Nino: Thank you all for coming, dears. Not a great turnout today...but not every day can be gold. Next meeting will be in something a little more GMT friendly. Tateru Nino: Now...I think for a chance that I don't have to actually remind people of the meeting rules. I think everyone here's heard them at least once. :) Tateru Nino: Tat -> Chair. Respect each other, behave. Basically. Tateru Nino: First item today...Help Island - for several reasons. Tateru Nino: Yes, Help Island is still off the air. Unless Robin has anything for us, no ETA is available for restoration. At least nothing that's been communicated. Tateru Nino: With the Ahern WA off the air, I know that Waterhead's starting to become rather rough and unpleasant. Certainly difficult to control. Hang in there. Lethe Naumova: It's still better than Ahern, mind. Tateru Nino: Well, true. Tateru Nino: Which being said we've only actually got volunteer coverage at Waterhead about 16-17 hours per day. Tateru Nino: Some new residents are helping each-other out the rest of the time. Tateru Nino: Or they're on their own. Tateru Nino: Just do your best for now, and with luck, at least some of the folks will be back to HI for a better experience when it comes back. Gwyneth Llewelyn: You mean the newbies that came through Waterhead will be back to HI? Gwyneth Llewelyn: When it comes up? Tateru Nino: No, I just mean the new newbies. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, ok, lol Tateru Nino: The ones who have arrived have...well, arrived. They're here to stay. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry, I'm a bit tired today and not thinking properly Tateru Nino: Issues like the greeter database and other HI support systems are mooted for the moment, so we can leave them be. Jennifer McLuhan: raises hand Tateru Nino: Yes, Jenni? Jennifer McLuhan: Is the greeter call working? Jennifer McLuhan: I haven't received a request in weeks Tateru Nino: Only from the website, and I don't have a confirmed case since 1.9 that any greeter has gotten a request online. Tateru Nino: Does anyone know of one? Jennifer McLuhan: That is what I mean. I haven't received any requests from the web Toy LaFollette: pssst, act innocent, there's Jeska :) Jennifer McLuhan: I use to be bombarded Jeska Linden: g Jeska Linden: I promise I wasn't listening from afar, just happened to walk up when you're asking about me :P Jeska Linden: Now, what was the question? Jennifer McLuhan: lol Gwyneth Llewelyn: ;) Tateru Nino: Does anyone know of any greeter who has been successfully contacted from the website since 1.9 was rolled out? Jeska Linden: The Greeter HUD which is on Help Island is not functional at the moment - but the web site should still be working for requests. Tateru Nino: Should, yes. People are becoming suspicious that it may not be. Jeska Linden: We had greeter meetings right before 1.9, and it was still working, but I will test it this afternoon to be sure there aren't any problems. Tateru Nino: That would be very nice. I was planning on bug-reporting it if nobody could come up with a working example, even by hearsay. Jeska Linden: I've also spoken with the developer who is working on a fix for Help Island Tateru Nino: Ah, is there news? Jeska Linden: If you can reproduce a problem, please PLEASE bug report it! :) Gwyneth Llewelyn listens eagerly :) Jeska Linden: There were some critical bug fixes last week which were first in line, but the developer has checked in the fix for Help Island, which, barring any horrible bugs in testing, will be pushed on Wed. Tateru Nino: Wonderful! Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay :-) Jeska Linden: I've also been working with Mick to make sure that the HUD is corrected for Help Island - turns out we may have had too many Greeters in the same database, which was causing the erratic behaviour! Tateru Nino nods. Makes sense. Gwyneth Llewelyn crosses her fingers. Jeska Linden: I'm not sure if it will be ready or not for Wed.'s release, but will be in contact with the Greeters early next week. Tateru Nino: I'm sure they'll be glad to have it working. Tateru Nino: Even if it's not immediate. Jeska Linden: nod Jeska Linden: I had planned on testing the fix this week, but Help Island breaking sort of put a damper on that plan ;) Tateru Nino: On a lot of people :) Tateru Nino: Next item...the user-documentation wiki that was being worked on. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I'd say HI should be a priority... Tateru Nino: The project is dead due to a communication failure. LL have been working on an almost identical thing, and the duplication of effort is unnecessary. Gwyneth Llewelyn: :) Fairge Kinsella puts up hand Moon Adamant: indeed Robin Linden: ummm what I said is that we're shifting the knowledge base to a new software product Tateru Nino: Yes, Fairge? Robin Linden: I don't know that the projects were duplicative Tateru Nino: I don't know directly either, Robin. I'm just passing on what I was given. Fairge Kinsella: I just wanted to say thanks to Gwyn for setting up the server, and to the people who reviewed and contributed information. Lethe Naumova: If the new Linden documentation won't be updated on a regular basis, I could still seeing a user wiki being useful Mera Pixel: indeed Lethe Naumova: MMO documentation is famously terrible, maybe we can be one of the few to get it right? Moon Adamant: good point, Lethe Jeska Linden: As I had understood it, the volunteer wiki was more of a resource for volunteers to use while helping, with tips and such - the improved documentation we're working on is more support-orientated. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Speaking slightly out of order, my apologies to Jeska & Robin for neglecting to make sure you were aware of that wiki... I think Fairge and myself 'assumed' you were aware of it :) Jeska Linden: Gwyn, we were and thought it was a great idea :) Fairge Kinsella: I chatted to the lads about it, and given that the work that they are doing will be completed sooner, and fill the three key gaps we were looking to fill, it seemed sensible tow ait and see what they release (providing any possible assistance) Jeska Linden: Perhaps there was some confusion - the change we are making is moving the documentation currently in the support wiki into a new format. Fairge Kinsella: And then identify if there were areas that a user maintained documentation set could fill. Jeska Linden: Updating and expanding as needed - is this the same as what you are working on? Gwyneth Llewelyn: The original idea was to make sure we could get a 'standard' set of notecards for Greeters/Mentors to distribute... we just used the wiki as a source that is more manageable to edit the 200+ notecards :) Jeska Linden: Gwyn - so is that a replacement for the support wiki? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Uh... actually, think of it as a source for notecards, Jeska :) Shaun Altman: I have to dash to a RL engagement.. see u all later.. if the meeting is still going on in a couple of hrs I might be back in time :) Tateru Nino waves a finger around. Jeska, I think you, Robin, Gwyn and Fairge probably need to sit together and talk for about 20 minutes at your respective conveniences. :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL yes perhaps :) Jeska Linden: Sounds good. Gwyneth Llewelyn: On a previous meeting, we have identified hundreds of notecards, some of them outdated, some very good . the idea was to get them all together :) Robin Linden: would be happy to! Fairge Kinsella: <grin> Jeska Linden: :) Tateru Nino: Which brings us to our discussion topic deferred from last week: "There are areas where people feel volunteers could make a difference that LL aren't thinking about" Gwyneth Llewelyn: ha ha well Tateru Nino: And before I open the floor on that one, I'd like to suggest that attempts to do so are counterproductive without good communications both inside LL and between LL and the volunteers. Anyone have something to say? Tateru Nino: Doesn't look like it, does it. With the exception of the user-documentation wiki, folks seem a little stumped right now. Mera Pixel: :) Mera Pixel pleads lack of experience Tateru Nino: Jeska? Lethe Naumova: I think focusing on ways to extend the reach of volunteers is a good idea. The user document wiki is like that, allowing for volunteers to help people without being there in person, as it were Gwyneth Llewelyn: I second Tateru on the issue of 'good communications' :) Jeska Linden: I'm very interested in continuing to refine how things are going so far - I'm not sure if that falls under things LL isn't thinking about or not :P Jeska Linden: What sorts of things were you talking about before? Tateru Nino: I think refinement and improvements are one of those forever things. You just about get things optimised then the circumstances change somehow, and you have to adapt. :) Tateru Nino: Actually, I can think of one thing. We've got...1300 or so volunteers. Everywhere. All over the grid. Listening to people, talking to people, shopping, socialising. Is there a way to tap that to read more general feedback from SL? The forums barely Tateru Nino: scratch 2%. Lethe Naumova: How many of those volunteers don't want to be tapped, though? It could get ugly. Tateru Nino: I'd hate to venture a personal opinion on it. Robin Linden raises hand Tateru Nino: Yes, Robin? Tateru Nino: Then Mera. Robin Linden: Creating a feedback loop from the volunteers to Linden Lab is very important. Robin Linden: My questions are: should that be public, for example in a forum? How do we respond so that people know we've heard them? Fairge Kinsella: I wonder about a Volunteer mailing list, would that get a wider reach than the forums? If you, er, volunteered to sign up for it? Robin Linden: Sometimes we open a new channel for feedback and it creates more stress because we can't possibly do everything people are hoping for. Tateru Nino: Indeed. Tateru Nino: Mera, you had something? Robin Linden: I feel like a broken record sometimes saying "It's in the queue" Mera Pixel: I've thought better of speaking up atm. :D Jeska Linden: One thing I've found very helpful as far as feedback from the volunteers, is asking specific questions. Tateru Nino: Hard to interrogate people one at a time. Aside from these meetings though, that's exactly what I do. Jeska Linden: For example, last week at one of the Live Help monthly meeting, we discussed how 1.9 had been going (it was released the day before) Jeska Linden: Also, with Live Help, we use the group channel to spread information and gather information. Jeska Linden: Without moving too far from the conversation, some of the increased communication tools we're designing for groups will help make this easier for larger groups to gather/feedback information... Fairge Kinsella raises hand Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm sort of an History mode for Group IM? :) Tateru Nino nods. Tateru Nino: Fairge after Jeska. Jeska Linden: Go head ;) Tateru Nino: Fairge. Fairge Kinsella: Sorry, I didn’t mean to interrupt. But one thing that I would find hugely helpful is if the logs of the official volunteer meetings were available to read? I've never been able to attend one, they are squarely in the middle of my work day Fairge Kinsella: I know you can't suit all the wonky time zones, but I would love to read the logs and then IM anything I have to contribute. Jeska Linden: Fairge, they're usually posted in the volunteer forum, or emailed for Live Help Jeska Linden: I'll check with you to make sure your email is correct :) Tateru Nino: They expire from the forums after some number of weeks...and are only locatable if you know just what to look for. Fairge Kinsella: Gotcha. Jeska Linden: I don't believe things expire in the forums :) Jeska Linden: You just need to adjust your view - it defaults to 3 months worth of posts. Toy LaFollette: then its still in archive isn’t it? Fairge Kinsella: Well that is good news, my wishes have already been granted! <Grin> Next! Tateru Nino: Indeed :) Jeska Linden: nods Yes, I don't archive the volunteer forum, only ... General and Off Topic I believe. Jeska Linden: But we can work to make them more visible. Jeska Linden: Make a subfolder or something. Tateru Nino: Midnite? Got something? Jeska Linden: I'll make a note to check :) Gwyneth Llewelyn raises hand as well... Midnite Rambler: that would be helpful, having a subfolder with meeting minutes. then people know just where to look Tateru Nino: Gwyn. Gwyneth Llewelyn: The only thing that I can offer, from previous experience with 'difficult to search forums' Gwyneth Llewelyn: is to post the transcripts on a wiki as well. Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's just a suggestion :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have also a colourizer script that works for wikis ;) Tateru Nino: Alright. Next discussion topic....a biggish and potentially contentious one. Tateru Nino: This one was brought up in the middle of last week's meet. Tateru Nino: With respect to mentors/greeters particularly. Which (if any) of the existing divisions make sense, and what do you think would both improve or streamline the groups, while still keeping it clear to non-volunteers what they may expect from each of us. Tateru Nino: Is there that much of a difference between a mentor and a greeter these days? Or have the changes widened the divisions? Tateru Nino: Who wants to have a crack at it first? RodneyLee Jessop raises hand Tateru Nino: Rodney first. Go. RodneyLee Jessop: Ok, this may be weird, I just think the titles are mixed up Gwyneth Llewelyn raises hand as well RodneyLee Jessop: a Greet would be greeting and first help RodneyLee Jessop: and mentor would take and show the lands etc... RodneyLee Jessop: done Tateru Nino: Gwyn after Rodney. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just something quick... Tateru Nino: Shoot, Gwyn :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: ... I think that with the new groups coming up Gwyneth Llewelyn: and somehow having them 'more complex' Gwyneth Llewelyn: there will be perhaps a way of having a 'SL volunteer' group Gwyneth Llewelyn: and 'different roles' inside it. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Is that a plan of LL? Midnite Rambler: agrees with Gwyn Tateru Nino: Jeska? Your turn :) Jeska Linden: Gwyn - I think that sounds like a good idea, we're still very much in research stage of any volunteer refinement :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, just checking, because all this might be much easier with the new groups... Jeska Linden: That's what I was thinking ;P Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Fairge Kinsella Gravity isn't so serious! Join date: 23 Oct 2004 Posts: 158	Log 2/2 03-25-2006 13:32 Tateru Nino: Who's next? Tateru Nino: Moon, I think. Moon Adamant: the fact stands that volunteers will lend their hand at all tasks... regardless of the title they carry Moon Adamant: thanks Tat .) Tateru Nino: Many of us will, certainly. Toy LaFollette: not possible at all times Toy LaFollette: PL is thru the roof :( Moon Adamant: so perhaps the joining of volunteers - at least as regards in a single information tool, would be helpful to all Mera Pixel: :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: "One volunteer group, many roles" :) Midnite Rambler agrees with Gwyn on that Moon Adamant: and i am sorry, but will have to leave now :) good work everyone, and thanks Tat .) Tateru Nino: Well, instructors are a separate breed of cat. And Live Help, I think is being very well handled as a separate body as is. Tateru Nino: Take care, Moon. Lethe Naumova: all? I see livehelp and instructors as...heh Midnite Rambler: bye Moon Moon Adamant waves Gwyneth Llewelyn: What makes instructors 'different', Tateru? Gwyneth Llewelyn: (loaded question, I know) Tateru Nino: And instructor is paid to hold an LL approved class. Gwyneth Llewelyn: But that might change soon... Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean the payment bit. Lethe Naumova: they also don't have HI access Jeska Linden: I would argue that even though the roles may be different, the communication issues are the same :) Tateru Nino: Still, they teach classes, where the other volunteer groups are helpers, guides, mentors if you will. Tateru Nino: Agree, Jeska. Gwyneth Llewelyn: 418 instructors?... just checking that. Are all of them at TeaZer's?? Midnite Rambler: plus they get paid for what they do, which marks them different Mera Pixel: it seems to me from what I hear, that intercommunication between the volunteers would help. Greeters, Mentors, Live Help all hearing and knowing the same thing That goes back to the feedback loop to LL as well, I think. Tateru Nino: But without those channels getting too much noise for too little signal. Tateru Nino: If we all start talking at once, we don't get far. Mera? Toy LaFollette: nope, I teach at NCI hehehe but haven’t applied for the payment Mera Pixel: nothing, sorry. Gwyneth Llewelyn fears a mailing list with 2000 people or so ... Tateru Nino: Totally. Even at a thousand people. Toy LaFollette: there's a bit more involved for Instructors than just being accepted Tateru Nino: Anyone else got anything more for this topic? Midnite Rambler: i was thinking about something that was mentioned last week Tateru Nino: Go ahead, Midnite. Midnite Rambler: about how many sign up as mentors, but are not active in it Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe 90%? :) Midnite Rambler: and was wondering if there was a way to cull those that don't wish to do it? Gwyneth Llewelyn is one of them, I just spend perhaps 20% of my time 'mentoring' Midnite Rambler: 20% is a better figure than many, tho Gwyn Shoshana Epsilon: If you look at the last login time, some haven't even logged in for months. Lethe Naumova: For whatever reason, I suspect that many of the people who never do anything with it will fight tooth and nail to keep the tag. Midnite Rambler: and if we all spent 20% of our time mentoring, there would be lots of mentors at any given time Tateru Nino: The notion of pruning the volunteer groups is one that often comes up. Tateru Nino: Let me stand on my orange-crate for a sec, though. Jeska Linden raises hand for when you're done. Tateru Nino: So far, I've not heard any good selection criteria. People who have not logged in for a certain amount of time ARE pruned, periodically. But of course, some people are on military tours, holidays and whatnot. Tateru Nino: (Jeska after me then) Jeska Linden: nods - Right, from a more managerial standpoint, any volunteer who hasn't logged in a set amount of time are pruned off and sent a note explaining they can reapply in the future. Jeska Linden: A very nice note! :) No pressure. Tateru Nino: And given the amount of time it takes to get through the queue, I would be reluctant to drop the tag, if it would take a long time to get it back. Tateru Nino: But what performance basis do you use? I'm all over the grid 100 and more hours per week. I give that time because right now I have it. Midnite Rambler: i was more thinking of that i personally know that have the tag, but have not spent one second actually mentoring Tateru Nino: What if you're really busy? Is the 30 minutes in a week you can spare less more valuable? Shoshana Epsilon raises her hand Tateru Nino: Sho? Shoshana Epsilon: I know that it is possible to have Linden scripts in the welcome areas, and it would be possible to tell who was in the area. Would it be possible for LL to tally how many hrs a month people spend in the Welcome Areas? Shoshana Epsilon: If they spend more than 1 hr a month, for instance, they get to keep the title? Tateru Nino: It's possible. I'm not sure it's advisable. Midnite Rambler: that would be easy to farm tho, just hang out there for your hour Tateru Nino: Mentors operate in places like the NCI, the Shelter, the sandboxes... Lethe Naumova: mentor camping chairs Mera Pixel: raises hand Tateru Nino: Mentor camping ch-- No, wait. Tateru Nino: :) Midnite Rambler laughs at that thought Tateru Nino: Done, Sho? Or more? Shoshana Epsilon: done Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm quantity is not a good metric when you value quality... Tateru Nino: Indeed, Gwyn. Mera. Toy LaFollette: it would be a nightmare to see who is doing what for what length of time a month Mera Pixel: IF there was a pruning method in place, it would be better served to be based on quality than quantity. And that just opens up a whole 'nother pandora's prim. Gwyneth Llewelyn raises hand again ;) Mera Pixel: that's all Tateru Nino chuckles, after a manner of speaking. Tateru Nino: Gwyn? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, well Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Greeters have a web-side 'rating' system Gwyneth Llewelyn: Would that be something that makes sense for Mentors as well? Or Instructors, or LHers...? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Open question to all :) Lethe Naumova: I can see that leading only to heartbreak Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, perhaps a different question then. What is the current feedback we have on the 'Greeter rating system'? Toy LaFollette: LH is pretty obvious, since we are answering the IM's when wearing our titles Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's more for Jeska to answer, lol Shoshana Epsilon: "Hey, when you get a chance, please go to <url> and tell them what a wonderful job I did." Midnite Rambler isn't sure how the greeter one operates, so can't really comment Gwyneth Llewelyn nods Gwyneth Llewelyn: (notice how nobody remembers the URL ;) ) Tateru Nino: Jeska then :) Jeska Linden: Gwyn - the feedback is not included in the upgraded HUD version, as we had a difficult time capturing it on the website (wasn't in an intuitive space) Jeska Linden: But I'm anxious to work that into the next phase of the Greeter project, once the kinks are ironed out of the current one. Personal opinion: (via Tateru Nino) I think some feedback is important. Without praise and criticism both, there is little incentive for us to better ourselves or adapt. Midnite Rambler wonders if she will ever get to be a greeter :P Gwyneth Llewelyn: So hmm the new Greeter HUD will somehow let you know how you were rated? Is that it? Jeska Linden: It's yet to be designed, but we're capturing information as to who has been greeted and how many people each greeter gets selected by - so we can build it into future release. Mera Pixel has a question. Jeska Linden: Once it's running smoothly, we will turn to that. Tateru Nino: Mera, then. Gwyneth Llewelyn nods ty. So perhaps we need a 'Mentor HUD' :) Lethe Naumova: We're part of the way there with the communicators Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye :) Mera Pixel: well this may just be my newness and is slightly off-topic. but is there a standard practice that mentors are held to when the title is up? Tateru Nino: Not at this stage, no. Only the CS and TOS. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not... yet :) Tateru Nino: Plus WA guidelines in the WA. Mera Pixel: needs to be. :) Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees. Mera Pixel: thanks Tateru Nino: Concur. Lethe Naumova: I could have sworn I read something about only wearing the title when you're willing to mentor, but I could be making stuff up again Tateru Nino: Lethe? Lethe Naumova: I can't imagine where though, the intro card Jeska gave me? thinks Shoshana Epsilon holds up her hand Tateru Nino: Ah, well...that's the problem, isn't it? We all are sure we've seen this or that, said or written somewhere...but can you point to it? Jeska Linden: Yup, it's one of the tips - Tateru Nino: Sho? Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, from the intro card: ** PLEASE turn off your Mentor title when you are unavailable to help people and answer questions. It is not a good thing to tell someone you are too busy if you have that title on. Lethe Naumova: Score! Memory+1 Jeska Linden: hehehe Shoshana Epsilon: Are there any capabilities that are allowed (I can't think of a better word) when the Mentor group is active? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Score! Fast Search on Inventory ;) RodneyLee Jessop thinking this is turning into Waterhead Tateru Nino: We have no super-powers, no :) Gwyneth Llewelyn: We get admired and adored lovingly by newbies in a 128 m radius?:) Lethe Naumova: I do, but they're the normal kind. Like making tea. Midnite Rambler: lol Taj Peck: hehe Shoshana Epsilon: (done) Mera Pixel: super tea Robin Linden raises hand Tateru Nino: I'll call the official meeting closed. ~~~ Don't let that stop you talking and exchanging ideas. Formatted and colorized with transcript.

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GOV (Gathering of Volunteers) 24 March 2006