GOV (Gathering of Volunteers) log 27 January 2006

Tateru Nino: Okay. We may as well kick off. Anyone who's later than this is probably just plain busy. It happens. No biggie.
Tateru Nino: General ground rules. Tat's chairing the meeting. She tells you to PIPE DOWN you take your hands off the keyboard and remember that keeping order makes for shorter meetings that are easier to understand. Hapyy to bring things up again next week if you
Tateru Nino: didn't get heard.
Tateru Nino: When someone's got the floor, please let them speak and resist the urge to toss in a comment. They get out of hand quickly, and comments are almost always best delivered after a little thought.
Tateru Nino digs out the agenda.
Joelle Tardis grins
Tateru Nino: First item. Rumour control.
Tateru Nino: Despite what was misspoken a week ago, Help Island is *not* going to be opened up to the general SL populace. There are no plans to do so. It would be silly.
Joelle Tardis: indeed
Tateru Nino: The rumour went everywhere in seconds.
Lewis Nerd: wasnt me
Ginny Gremlin: I didn't even hear the rumour
Ginny Gremlin always the last to know
Joelle Tardis: me either
Tateru Nino: Brian said something, which was easily misinterpreted. Nobody's fault.
Lewis Nerd: was that linked to the "forum res mods" thing?
doug Donovan: GET HIM!!
Garnet Psaltery: No it was a cross-conversation
Tateru Nino: And that covers rumour control :)
Tateru Nino: Second item. From Jeska.
Tateru Nino: We can apparently expect the 'orientation experience' to be disrupted somewhat mid-next week by a marketing trial.
Sarg Bjornson: wow
Garnet Psaltery: Oh lordy
Lewis Nerd: that sounds ominous
Sarg Bjornson: Please, ellaborate!
doug Donovan: here...have my seat lol
Ginny Gremlin: disrupted?
Angelique LaFollette: Define "Marketing Trial"
Ginny Gremlin: how much disrupted?
Tateru Nino: Apparently this is not where the marketing department is put on trial. I know. I'm as shocked as you :)
Joelle Tardis giggles
Sarg Bjornson: hehe
Garnet Psaltery: off with their heads
Ginny Gremlin: shoot 'em at dawn
Tateru Nino: Apparently there will be a free land offer for new premium signups. Middle of next week.
doug Donovan: dang
Lewis Nerd: oh good grief
Garnet Psaltery: They can't cope with the numbers as it is
Joelle Tardis: yeah I just bought mine
Tateru Nino: This means that those people who get it, will appear with their HOME already set to their plot on the mainland.
Tateru Nino: Trial will last 24-48 hours.
Ginny Gremlin: they'll be screaming for help
Lewis Nerd: there goes the neighbourhood.....
Garnet Psaltery: So they'll want to run straight to their new house and not learn anything
Angelique LaFollette: Of course.
Tateru Nino: I don't know which sim or sims will be involved. I don't think they're getting a house. Just land.
Lewis Nerd: is it the 512 newbie plot they're getting i assume?
Tateru Nino: I've no reason to suspect otherwise, Lewis.
Stan Pomeray: sounds like they'll automatically go to their new home, if its set as home location
Tateru Nino: They're normal premium accounts. They just save L$512 and some first-land shopping.
Sarg Bjornson: Let's burn the houses then
Lewis Nerd: rather than the welcome area? that sounds a bit suspect
Garnet Psaltery: lol
Joelle Tardis: not sure thats a real good idea
Jazmina Firefly makes note doug an i are listening but swamped in calls
Lo Jacobs: Sounds like the Blumfield thing
doug Donovan: way swamped lol
Tateru Nino: Indeed.
Stan Pomeray: so they bypass HI altogether? or do they go their automatically, but only once?
Toy LaFollette: sounds like some may miss HI then
Angelique LaFollette: I take it, they will be Populating those new segments of land to the south west of HI?
Tateru Nino: They come in the same as everyone else, but with their home point set to the plot rather than to the Ahern WA.
Lo Jacobs: Interesting
Ginny Gremlin: oh, thats different
Toy LaFollette: I can see HI going to LH this wa hehehe
Ginny Gremlin: I thought you meant straight to their land
Tateru Nino: Haven't been told, Angel. Didn't think it was too important to know where.
Sarg Bjornson: I wonder who comes up with these ideas...
Tateru Nino: So the only real change to the newbie 'experience' here is that if they GO HOME, they go to that land, rather than to the WA.
Toy LaFollette: Im just concerned that they will be more interested to get their land than spend time on HI
Sarg Bjornson: Ah, well
Garnet Psaltery: yep
Sarg Bjornson: Then it isn't so bad
Tateru Nino: Likely, Toy.
doug Donovan: no doubt
Angelique LaFollette: There will be no doubt of that toy,
Angelique LaFollette: I agree it will be a disruption.
Tateru Nino: Marketing will keep experimenting, so we can expect other premium account incentives. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm seeing a reasonable number of my kids go to premium a while after hitting the mainland.
Toy LaFollette: yup
Lewis Nerd: I can understand incentives to go premium... just not convinced thats the best one
Sarg Bjornson: I agree
Stan Pomeray: It would work if they're immediately clued up on "land owning" issues. Which they wont be
Ginny Gremlin: I can see Live Help having an increase in calls
Lo Jacobs: Heheh.
Toy LaFollette: my problem with it now is LH is swamped a lot and this will just add to it
doug Donovan: me too
Joelle Tardis: yeah and a bunch of angry people who had to pay for their land
Lewis Nerd: i guess you'll be subcontracting a lot of it out to greeters and mentors?
Angelique LaFollette: Can someone Cobble together a FAQ notecard on Land issues?
Tateru Nino: I don't think there's a 'best'. If an optimal one exists, it probably would sink to suboptimal after a week or two. We're changing very quickly.
Tateru Nino: 27 thousand people so far this year.
Angelique LaFollette: it might be a useful tool.
doug Donovan: dang
Lewis Nerd: 27,000 signups, 8 that weren't alts you mean
Toy LaFollette: I got several
Tateru Nino: At this rate, we're 3 more months from 200K.
doug Donovan: lol
Tateru Nino met very few alts, Lewis. Most announced themselves.
Lewis Nerd: i think this stopping referral bonus will see the increase die somewhat dramatically, personally
Joelle Tardis: yes
Tateru Nino: People will scream either (a) about the change to the referral bonus, or (b) that not enough is being done to cap inflation. Flip a coin :)
Tateru Nino: Some enterprising folks can scream about both :)
Sarg Bjornson: I'm considering starting doing so
Lewis Nerd: you forgot c) bush signs
Toy LaFollette: hmmm Mine are a bit outdated.... still called Land for the landless
Joelle Tardis: sl draws a variety of player types,but it seems that most who stay are more tech aclimated
Tateru Nino: Free accounts however only caused a small, but temporary blip on the newbie intake, I think most of you will have noticed. It got busy for a week then died away.
Joelle Tardis: and those are the ones who are usally refered here by a friend
Toy LaFollette: anyways, any questions about land send them to this URL.....
Toy LaFollette: https://secondlife.com/tiki/tiki-searchresults.php?where=wikis&words=land
Tateru Nino: This new intake started around Christmas, just before the media splash, and while it has now finally slowed, most of you know how many dozen or hundreds of honest-to-goodness brand newbies you've handled in the last 3-4 weeks.
doug Donovan: tons
Lewis Nerd: before the system broke i got 12 greet requests, only ever found 4, and three of those i havent seen since
Tateru Nino assumes in the absence of confirmation that the new greeter system is still at least a week away. I know it was 1-2 weeks last week. I suspect it still might be 1-2 weeks.
Toy LaFollette: I wasnt able to attend the last meeting but read the transcript......
Toy LaFollette: It made me wonder about some of the ideas that were put forth
Tateru Nino: Now everyone STAY SHUT for a minute. Toy's swamped by LH but has a poijnt to make.
Toy LaFollette: seems like we are trying to simplify HI so much for ourselves that its not going to really be a help to neew rezzies....
Thorval Ayoob: in what way, Toy?
Toy LaFollette: if we make it so simple, say for exmple a vehicle are we teaching them how things work in SL or are we making it sikmple for ourselves?
doug Donovan: ideally, both
Tateru Nino: Toy has a valid point there. Anyone want to address it? One at a time.
Sarg Bjornson: Me
Blueman Steele: *raises hand to go next
Tateru Nino: Sarg first. Then Blue.
Tateru Nino: Say when done.
Sarg Bjornson: Ok, uhmmm... I'll be truly sincere... The vehicle I created for HI... I did it because I had fun doing it
Sarg Bjornson: But I think it gives a better impression of SL to newbies than the ugly green car that is there now
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Sarg Bjornson: So, yeah, I did it to have fun, but I also think it will be good for HI
Ginny Gremlin nods
Sarg Bjornson: Of course, as HI is now it is VERY difficult to navigate it
Thorval Ayoob: why?
Sarg Bjornson: But well, summing up I think all the people who have tried it up to now liked it, some even seemed to love SL because of the vehicle :) (Ok, only one... but that qualifies as some)
Sarg Bjornson: Throval: pathways too narrow
Blueman Steele brushes tire marks off his shirt
Sarg Bjornson: And gets stuck at bridges
Sarg Bjornson: I think that's all
Tateru Nino: Okay. Blue?
Ginny Gremlin: the frustration level of a lot of newbies was over the top at being ejected time after time and not knowing why
Blueman Steele: I want to make sure I got toy's point.. toy could you tell me what you mean via making it easy for us vs them etc
Toy LaFollette: my point about the vehicles was just what was spoke about at the last meeting.... just clicking them, getting a test drive and such.... thats not how it operates once inworld
Tateru Nino will take a turn after Blue.
Blueman Steele: I see.. so you mean how they see the "merch"
Blueman Steele: often I'm asked about things and they want to know "how much and where"
Blueman Steele: so do you mean keeping it as a buy object.. even if it is at zero
Toy LaFollette: Im just concerned in simplifying HI for us so much its not really preparing new rezzies as to how it actually in once they go inworld
Ginny Gremlin: but if they are totally frustrated at the example - what is the point?
Blueman Steele: *listens
Blueman Steele: the point would be that we can help them.. vs at the car lot they might have no help
Angelique LaFollette: What toy is saying i think
Angelique LaFollette: Is that New people are learning interfaces, and control methods on the Island, that are Not usesed. or Rarely used in the Main Map.
Angelique LaFollette: We are, In effect, giving them a different game.
Blueman Steele: we *DO* want the noobs to have problems
Blueman Steele: becuase we want them to have problems now. while we can help
Garnet Psaltery: Yes most boxes don't entail a left-click to open
Blueman Steele: though not so hard we scare them off
Ginny Gremlin: they try time after time before someone gets to them
Ginny Gremlin: and some are totally frustrated and not listening by the time someone gets to them
Angelique LaFollette: Easy for us, but in the long run, No help to them.
Tateru Nino: PIPE DOWN for a minute folks. Let Blue finish! Then you can have your own turn!
Sarg Bjornson: Uhmmm, 1 sec, let me rez the item in discussion. I'll make it full perms for you in case you want to fool around with it
Blueman Steele: so I thing a right click open needs to be known.. but shopping in general shoudl be shown by the store
Blueman Steele: but one word that has not come up directly.. is "expectations"
Garnet Psaltery: Yay - Sarg's car
Garnet Psaltery: as test-driven by him and me
Stan Pomeray: Nice car :o)
Blueman Steele: are we overly raising expectations
Tateru Nino: *ahem* Blue? Speaking? Let's be polite.
Blueman Steele: I'm mostly rambling..... and done.. just waht do they expect.. and how do they take the change
Tateru Nino: Okay. My turn. Nobody's signalled they want to speak next.
Tateru Nino: I'm on the fence on this one.
Tateru Nino: I appreciate the touch-activated freebies at the store. Click. Got it. Yay. Simple.
Tateru Nino: However, I've poked Jeska and gotten tacit approval for some 3-prim vendors that actually take L$ and give product, on the proviso that they refund the money.
Tateru Nino: We need to teach the new entries how things work in the real world as well.
Ginny Gremlin: yes, I agree
Sarg Bjornson: Yeah
Angelique LaFollette: That seems a sounder proposal Tat.
Tateru Nino: But that's no reason to make all the experiences hard. And the cars /are/ one of the harder ones for them to get to grips with, as well as being popular.
Ginny Gremlin: but a sign saying how they accomplish the task would be nice
Tateru Nino: We should find a way to do BOTH IMO.
Lewis Nerd: may i throw something in the pot at a convenient moment?
Tateru Nino: Done. Lewis next.
Blueman Steele: FYI store is being taken apart as I TP'ed here
Tateru Nino: Then Ginny?
Ginny Gremlin: thanks
Tateru Nino: (I expected the store to be rebuilt - Teeple accidentally deleted it, and Lethe and I slapped in a quickie replacement)
doug Donovan: i have a comment on a related matter when its my turn please :)
Lewis Nerd: i just wanted to make a point that the help island hasnt been a problem in my experience, its when people land at the welcome area, get hit by lag and bling and show-offs ... to me thats far more detrimental to the overall expereince than ...
Tateru Nino: Lewis, then Ginny then Doug.
Lewis Nerd: ... any frustration that they might come across on the welcome/orientation
Lewis Nerd: *end*
Ginny Gremlin: my turn?
Tateru Nino: We lose some before that, sometimes, Lewis. Ginny.
Ginny Gremlin: I feel there should be a sign beside the car (or whatever) detailing the steps to be taken in order to drive it
Sarg Bjornson: I agree
Ginny Gremlin: there is not always someone there to help
doug Donovan: i agree
Angelique LaFollette: There we go.
Blueman Steele: there stands little reason not to put a sign by most things in HI
Angelique LaFollette: May i ask a question?
Tateru Nino: Gin? Taking questions?
Ginny Gremlin: sure
Angelique LaFollette: Is there any signage in the OI areas explaining who and what the Mentors are?
Tateru Nino: Yes.
Angelique LaFollette: To the new people i mean.
Angelique LaFollette: Ok, I've had several asking why we are there.
Tateru Nino: Actually, sorry, there is on HI.
Angelique LaFollette accepted your inventory offer.
Tateru Nino tosses a copy.
Blueman Steele: "Tateru is not to be used as a floatation device"
Angelique LaFollette: Caught it.
Ginny Gremlin: lol Blue
Angelique LaFollette: ~Not touching that streight line~
Tateru Nino rezzes a dispenser in case anyone else wants one.
Tateru Nino: There.
Blueman Steele: the LL sign aslo mentione mentors .. but breifly
doug Donovan: its no copy
Tateru Nino was in a rush.
Angelique LaFollette: I wondered, because i have been asked that Most.
Blueman Steele: there is nother about greeters while we wait for the hub to be finished
Tateru Nino: Anything else, Gin? Or Doug's turn?
Tateru Nino has two more items after the current one, so I'm going to try to keep things moving along.
doug Donovan: heh
doug Donovan: regarding cars and stuff on hi!
doug Donovan: i think that there should be some things there with the scripts viewable so ppl can see how things work
doug Donovan: sorry if thats been brought up already
Tateru Nino: I agree with Doug about the scripts, too. Some people /do/ learn scripting on HI, and some viewable practical examples would be nice.
Ginny Gremlin would like them too!
Toy LaFollette: I think I still have a lot of free scripts from USL
doug Donovan: maybe have some things there with full mod scripts that ppl can copy and work with
Tateru Nino: Now. Two more things. I'll get the quick one out of the way first. Hop up Lewis.
Tateru Nino: Lewis has made a Second Life Greeter Tee-shirt. Feel free to IM him after the meet to get one for you, or for your favourite greeter. :)
Lewis Nerd: its nothing special but its free and its idetntifiable
doug Donovan: i havd FIC RESIDENT CONTROL t shirts if anybody wants one
Angelique LaFollette: I have tons of them from different sources.
Lewis Nerd: i also have something else that helps people find me.....
Toy LaFollette raises hand :)
doug Donovan: cool lol
Tateru Nino: Subtle :)
Lewis Nerd: that tends to help people figure out where i am :)
Angelique LaFollette: I think that would Clash with my outfit.
Tateru Nino: Last submitted item is another one of Toy's. We will all let her finish, and then ask for a turn to comment, yes?
Tateru Nino: Of course she's in LH at the moment, so I will entertain you all with my unique combination of poetry and interprative dance.
doug Donovan: YAY!
Tateru Nino: Ah, here she is.
Toy LaFollette: okay.... prolly a touchy subject but I seriously think we need some sort of an acceptable dress code on HI
doug Donovan: i agree
Ginny Gremlin: yup
doug Donovan: i havent seen anything that shocked me, but there needs to be a standard
doug Donovan: heh ty lewis
Cup Of Green Tea whispers: Ah! Steaming Green Tea!
Lewis Nerd: np :)
Tateru Nino: Who wants to say more, or propose something? We can't mandate anything to the volunteers, but we can at least advertise a consensus.
Lewis Nerd: i have a nice t-shirt :)
Toy LaFollette: I did this morning, doug... but it was new mentor and I didnt know if we had decided on a dress code
Tateru Nino: I mean some people wander around with their bodily organs visible. :)
Moon Adamant: hmmm general PG - such as we insist upon teh new residents?
doug Donovan: thats not good
Moon Adamant: oh
Tateru Nino: (That was a joke for those of you tuning in on the forums)
Toy LaFollette: :)
doug Donovan: it shouldnt look like they're at the edge...nothing specifically against the edge, but this is HI!
Toy LaFollette: my feelings as well doug
Angelique LaFollette: We can't be too vague about it though,
Angelique LaFollette: My idea of "Acceptable" may be different from yours.
Moon Adamant: though i believe that the hmmm different aesthetics is important - expresses pretty much what SL is in terms of appearance costumization
Tateru Nino: So...what sort of level are we talking about? PG is hard to define. "Wouldn't get you tossed out of a lecture hall at college"?
Toy LaFollette: hmmmm a question maybe.... would your moma think your dressed appropriatly? :)
doug Donovan: good point
Shakuzen Snakeankle: lol
Moon Adamant: hmmm what about ' a shirt and some pants?'
doug Donovan: depending on the mother in question lol
Tateru Nino looks at her elegant victorian dress. My mother would consider me underdressed.
Moon Adamant: is just that my mum wouldn't like to see some of my body suits which even have gloves!
doug Donovan: conservative is a good word
Shakuzen Snakeankle: and skirt's ladies... no belts =P
Lewis Nerd: no bling... please?
Toy LaFollette: maybe if we notice someone not really dressed appropriatly just a IM asking them if they could possibly change :)
Shakuzen Snakeankle: i think it would be best to disable all scripted items if possible - excluding the communicator
Tateru Nino: Help Island is not very laggy. A little bling is okay - IMO. It captures the attention of the new entries and gets their imaginations running.
Moon Adamant: my AO o.O... :D
Tateru Nino: I'd hate to see it turned into a sterile place.
doug Donovan: thatd be bad
Lewis Nerd: yeah but what about the hideous experience when they hit the welcome area on the mainland
Shakuzen Snakeankle: it's only not laggy if u got a decent computer
doug Donovan: we want them to be exposed to scripted things
Toy LaFollette can't turn off scripts there, so much of the island is run with scripts
Moon Adamant: well, it doesn't lag 'that' much for me - and i am on 1Ghz :)
Angelique LaFollette: I've only experienced Lag there once, and it was my Antivirus kicking in.
Tateru Nino: Don't send them there. If they want to go to the Ahern WA, there's no way to prevent it. But we don't have to send them there. THere's no reason for them to see it.
Lewis Nerd: i get a lot of lag at welcome area and i exceed the minimum spec by a long way
Lewis Nerd: my greets tend to be at the welcome area.... they go through orientation, then hit the mainland and "help!"
Toy LaFollette: if anyone isnt aware there are new specs out with a min and reccomended..... https://secondlife.com/corporate/sysreqs.php
Tateru Nino: I think that will change soon, Lewis, once the Greeter Hub is online.
Lewis Nerd: ok
Toy LaFollette: also FYI.....
Toy LaFollette: be aware guys...... Effective today, we will be eliminating the $L1000 bonus for Basic Referrals. from this forum post..... /3/a1/84713/1.html
Tateru Nino: Definitely something to remember when you're discussing economics and referrals.
doug Donovan: true
Shakuzen Snakeankle: that sucks
Lewis Nerd: we have an economy?
doug Donovan: had a call regarding that last night
Toy LaFollette: there's more in the post
Tateru Nino: Obviously there will still be referral bonuses for premium accounts, but LL cops it in the purse for each Free Account Referral payout.
Shakuzen Snakeankle: and you dont think they make enuf cash in hand as it is =P
doug Donovan: *wonders what "cops it in the purse" means*
Tateru Nino: Not enough to break even and survive at this stage is my understanding. Or to hire more staff to help get things done in a more timely way.
Toy LaFollette: The reasoning behind this move is twofold: 1. With the move to a Free model and the elimination of the credit card requirement, it has become increasingly difficult to justify economically
Tateru Nino: Doug - take a financial hit. Albiet small.
Toy LaFollette: 2. There has been a profusion of Referral-farming in recent weeks and we wish to eliminate the negative effect this may have on the L$ market value
Lewis Nerd: unlimited free trial = bad idea
doug Donovan: o i c
Toy LaFollette: Going forward, we will evaluate the effect of this change on the Linden dollar and implement a form of Referral Bonuses that makes more sense with Free Basic accounts.
Toy LaFollette: . We have always valued all members of Second Life and will continue to do so; we just need to construct a way of showing that appreciation that doesn't present such a risk of abuse.
Toy LaFollette: posted by Jeska
Ginny Gremlin: no matter what - there will alway be someone that will abuse it
doug Donovan: true
Tateru Nino: Indeedy.
Shakuzen Snakeankle: i'v also heard rumors of no longer having stipend - i belive if that happens alot of residents will beomce inactive
Shakuzen Snakeankle: i myself would be less inclined to remain active
Toy LaFollette: I dont think stipends will go away but I dont look for dwell to last till the end of the year
Tateru Nino: End of the day - SL is not yet a profitable venture. To maintain the same level we have now, residents need to pay more (as a whole) or get less. Otherwise LL closes and SL dies. When you think about the marketing experiments, and payment adjustments
Lewis Nerd: i dont know why its called a stipend - its pocket money
Tateru Nino: that is what it all boils down to.
Moon Adamant: i believe that weekly stypends will be reduced before long as well
Angelique LaFollette: It has been once already.
Toy LaFollette: reduce my tier then hehehe
Tateru Nino: I'm not planning on speculating. If a large number of people do become premium then maybe the whole lot breaks even and it's moot.
Ginny Gremlin: my tier must be keeping some part of the system alive
Tateru Nino: Every dime contributes.
Angelique LaFollette: I think we can be confident, the Lindens know some cuts might look good in the short term, but in the long view will only hurt them.
Lewis Nerd: they need to reduce the cost of land - that will encourage people to tier up... i can afford more land but am loathe to pay all the cash for the land in the first place
Toy LaFollette: some guy at the WA this morning wanted to marry me so I said sure, take over my 235$ a month tiewr :)
Angelique LaFollette: Dwell may go, but not the stipend.
Tateru Nino: Did he go for it, Toy?
Toy LaFollette: he left quickly :)
Ginny Gremlin: hehe
Tateru Nino: Camping chairs have reduced dwell to virtually nothing for the low end traffic people.
Moon Adamant: Lewis, i don't think they can reduce the cost of teh land... it's free market after they sell teh sims
Tateru Nino: You now need six times the traffic to get the same dwell payout you did in September.
Lewis Nerd: i have a seventies themed club that is lucky to hit 200 traffic, as it has no camping chairs or lottery balls
Lewis Nerd: thats what bugs me... its the land barons screwing everyone over.. shoot 'em all i say
Angelique LaFollette: They only set the base price, the Market takes over from there, and Land costs what the market will bear.
Tateru Nino: Officially the meeting's closed. We're in open discussion. This section may be trimmed off the logs. Thankyou all for coming, dears.
Lewis Nerd: its gone 11pm here.... i can see bed calling
Moon Adamant: ty for hosting, Tat :)
Tateru Nino: Next meeting time will be posted in the Help Island staffroom and on the forum.
Lewis Nerd: are there ever Greeter Meetings?
Ginny Gremlin remind self to read the forums
Shakuzen Snakeankle: ^_^ take care all
Tateru Nino: I want to get mentors, greeters, LH and instructors as well.
Angelique LaFollette: Has anyone heard of any actions being taken against that "Bush sign" person?
Tateru Nino: There have to be ways each group can help the others.
Tateru Nino: These gatherings are intended to be for everyone.
doug Donovan: i believe that political statrments like that are protected kinda
Tateru Nino: After all. What if the signs said "Impeach LL" Or "Impeach Tateru Nino"?
doug Donovan: thats free speech
Tateru Nino: Exactly.
Moon Adamant: possibly they wouldn't excite all this emotion, i agree... :)
Angelique LaFollette: But each plot of lane where he Places a sign, he also puts up for sale,,
doug Donovan: impeach doug donovan
Angelique LaFollette: at a greatly inflated price.
doug Donovan: capitolism
Tateru Nino: I might not /like/ my name all over the place like that. But the man's got a right to say it. Even if his /purpose/ might not be aligned with his speech.
Shakuzen Snakeankle: i think we should start putting signs around "impeach bushsign guy"
Angelique LaFollette: The inference being,, Buy the land for more than it's worth to remove the sign.
Moon Adamant: ah, Angelique - only tactics that works is really Let It Be, as a community, see who is stubborner
Ginny Gremlin: its a type of blackmail
Stan Pomeray: Just offer to buy the sign off him
Toy LaFollette: then they would have to come down,Tat.... maybe we shgould call the Pres and have him join SL :)
Shakuzen Snakeankle: if we buy the land - he'd only put up another wign
Shakuzen Snakeankle: *sign
Moon Adamant: yes - but if you buy it, you're accepting the blackmail
Tateru Nino: I presume as long as people pay him off there's money to be had in doing it. If he didn't get any money - and profit was the motive, he'd have to give up.
Moon Adamant: so the best way is to ignore him... after all - he pays tier for it
Tateru Nino: Like a 419 scam.
Angelique LaFollette: Personally, I won't comment on his Political statement, he has a right to express it,
Ginny Gremlin: no, he'd keep doing it until he got a response
Angelique LaFollette: My concern is the Eyesore factor.

Toy LaFollette: there'sd several on my Crooked land where Im putting back up the waar memorial... hard to control my temper
Angelique LaFollette: I would dislike that sort of thing no matter the signs content.
Shakuzen Snakeankle: well i'm off guys need to get IM's under control
Moon Adamant: hmmm, there are things you can do to control the eye-sore
Shakuzen Snakeankle: tc guys =)
Toy LaFollette: cya Shak :)
Angelique LaFollette: Yes, but when you do, he repositions the sign.
Moon Adamant: plant tall trees, like FRank lloyd Wright said once... or reorient your house, leaving only a blank wall to it
Tateru Nino: An alternative motivation is that it's ordinary griefing. If so, the intent is to get you to respond. To do something. Anything. Put up a barrier. Trees. Shout on the forums. Pay money. Doesn't matter what.
Tateru Nino: If he's griefing, then responding makes him a winner in his eyes.
Angelique LaFollette: Agreed.
Ginny Gremlin: its a combo and he is enjoying it either way
doug Donovan: i like the impeach bush sign guy idea tho lol
Tateru Nino: 'Feed not the troll.'
Stan Pomeray: if he's griefing, tell him you really enjoy his signs. sort of...reverse psychology
Moon Adamant: but you can respond actively or passively... there is only confrontation where both persons meet hmmm turning your house away is a deflection of his action
Tateru Nino: Side note - I put up a new 'Getting Money in SL' info station on the island. One near the free house. One near the freebie store.
Toy LaFollette: ahhh good deal
Tateru Nino: It just covers 'stipend + currenct exchange + provide product or service'. Simple. Brief.
Moon Adamant: good idea, Tat :)
doug Donovan: nice
Tateru Nino: The only currency exchange I mention is the LindEX. I don't want to tout resident-run businesses on HI.
doug Donovan: good policy
Moon Adamant: ah
Moon Adamant: btw
Moon Adamant: an issue i have been wondering about
Moon Adamant: would like to have your opinion
Angelique LaFollette: I've been avoiding specific referrals, I thought that might be a Given.
Moon Adamant: what about community websites?
doug Donovan: huh?
Tateru Nino mentions history.secondserver.net now and again.
Tateru Nino: Or www.slpics.com
Moon Adamant: well, is just that SL has a very large web community
doug Donovan: sl.me.com
Moon Adamant: hmmm, but what about stuff like the Herald, say? or metaverse messenger?
Moon Adamant: you see, they're useful stuff for teh community, but run, i a suppose, with commercial purpose
Moon Adamant: or say, sl universe that is generalist portal but has an e-commerce site inside?
Tateru Nino: I generally don't mention either the herald or the MM on help island...unless there's discussion of a specific article.
Moon Adamant: and sorry for the misspelling :)
Toy LaFollette: I dont think beyond say The Shelter and NCI and such landmarks are enouhg for HI
Angelique LaFollette: and some lean towards the Controvercial, we could lean towards the more general purpose sites, but the others will protest at being excluded.
Angelique LaFollette: Include them, and people become critical of including controvercial content.
Moon Adamant: well, i generally tell them to google using Second Life - that way is fair, everyone gets noticed
doug Donovan: i agree
Angelique LaFollette: Agrees with Moon.