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Episodic RPGs: Sets and Props packer/unpacker

Nekokami Dragonfly
猫神
Join date: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 638
06-28-2005 19:32
A while back I started to consider the problem of MMORPGs and why I don't generally play them (this was before SL, when my main choices were still MU*s and maybe UO or EQ). I realized that while single-player games are very limited because it's hard to script NPCs well enough for a real interactive feel, so they have no real interpersonal action, MMORPGs have several other problems (from my point of view): if you're not one of the earliest players, you tend not to be able to have the feeling of exploring "new" territory; it's hard to have a feeling that "the story is about you" when you're sharing it with a gazillion other people; the story keeps moving while you're not logged in, so if you can't make a fairly regular commitment to play frequently, you miss a lot of what's going on; you can't pick whom you want to play with, etc.

What I wanted -- and what several other people I play "tabletop" RPGs with wanted -- was the feeling of "our group" being the "stars of the show" -- the ones fated to save the day, etc. while engaging in group problem-solving, clever banter and other socialization. But we wanted to be able to save the world at our own pace, when we could all agree to get together online, not log in and find out it had been saved without us, or that someone else was currently on hogging all the action. ;) Yet the amount of work involved in creating a good online game would really be too much to use once and then toss.

This led me to think about a possible hybrid. I was thinking in terms of text-based MU* systems, so I called it a MESS: Multiplayer Episodic Storytelling System. The idea was that a group of players could get together and form a team, and a new instance of the world would be spawned just for them; when they logged off, that instance would be packed up and stay waiting for them until that team logged in again. To conserve server resources, as well as to make story construction easier to manage, I thought of breaking up the world into individual "episodes" and "scenes," which would be unpacked and presented to the players as needed. I actually started modifying PerlMUD into such a system. Then my first life got knocked sideways by Second Life. So much for programming MU* systems. ;)

Now I'm back to thinking about the episodic system, though, because here we are talking about LARPs and RPGs, and we have the same sorts of problems that MMORPGs have. Many games still manage to be enjoyable despite this (I plan to spend time in Numbakulla this week), but I think the general idea still has merit.

Building sets and props is a lot of work. One wants to be able to get as much use out of all that work as possible, i.e. leave everything up long enough for many people to visit. But SL restricts the amount of land and prims you can have at any given time, and having big builds tends to be a problem because if more than a handful of people visit at once, the server goes to its knees. What I propose is a "set packer/unpacker," which would allow someone to build a "set" or "scenario," with props, scenery, and (preferably) scripted NPCs, then pack it all into an object that would unpack on command, on a "stage" owned by the game provider or even by the group playing. Several setpacks would be created, for different scenes. Ideally, they would be able to be linked using commands so that exiting from the boundaries of one would cause it to pack itself and unpack the adjacent set (and put the characters in the appropriate locations of the new set).

Think of it as "holodeck programs," if you like. :)

To go with this, I'd like to see a simple toolkit for setting objectives for each scene. This gets at the "episodic" nature of the system. Examples of objectives would be things like "make Enchantress laugh" where the Enchantress is an NPC on the scene, with a set of simple "emotion" parameters triggered by specified objects and actions, with "laughing" as an outcome of certain of those emotions. (The emotions would operate on scales similar to those used for physical attributes in more traditional RPGs, but would be more easily modified.) "Solving" a scene would result in one or more scene outcomes, e.g. changing to a different location, characters gaining new abilities, NPC providing necessary information, etc. Scenes would be strung together in story arcs. The action wouldn't be quite as free-flowing as a SL/LARP, but would have a strong sense of "story." This would be a way of developing multiplayer (but not massively multiplayer) interactive fiction in SL.

As an extra feature, people could hire out as NPCs or NPC teams for a higher level of participatory theatre, bring their own setpacks, provide the experience for the customer, then pack their stuff and leave. :)

Maybe it's overkill. Maybe with the population density of SL, setting the scenes up at distances from each other with some kind of teleport (possibly using the URL launch that I hear the HTML support will allow) would eliminate the need for the pack/unpack functionality, as no two groups would be likely to be there at the same time -- the sets would just have to "remember" who had been there before and act appropriately. But if a game got popular, it would be nice to know that your team could play the part of the game you're currently working on without having to worry about someone else being there at the same time, striving for the same goals or cross goals. And being able to eliminate the land problem would be nice, too-- someone with a limited amount of land could still build great setpacks and sell them to people to host on their own land.

Most of all, it would be important to make these development tools so easy to use, that anyone with good storytelling ideas (and an SL account) could use them to create these kinds of games.

What do the rest of you think? Is any of this making any sense? Is anyone else interested in these concepts, even some of them? Would you play games like this? Would you build them, if the tools were easy enough to use? I do have more details written up, if anyone is interested. I know I don't have time to develop this, but I'd like to work with someone else, if this strikes someone's fancy.

neko
Satchmo Prototype
eSheep
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 1,323
06-28-2005 19:56
From: Nekokami Dragonfly

As an extra feature, people could hire out as NPCs or NPC teams for a higher level of participatory theatre, bring their own setpacks, provide the experience for the customer, then pack their stuff and leave. :)



This is the only thing you've said that isn't already done in multi-player games. What your describing doesn't have to be Massive Multiplayer. There are lots of multi-player games out there, and although I never played them, I think the Diablo series allowed you to quest with friends over the internet on a common game.

That is not to say this wouldn't be fun to do in SL. Jeffrey Gomez just showed me his automated level generator for Primmies.
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Nekokami Dragonfly
猫神
Join date: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 638
06-28-2005 21:19
Yeah, I realized as I was typing that games like Total Annihalation and Dungeon Siege do that. Not persistently, though, do they? I mean, can you complete part of a long arc, save state somewhere, and pick up again the next week with the same group of players? (Can you tell I don't play TA or DS?)

Actually, the other thing that's different about the MESS system is the emphasis on emotional state of NPCs. Arcanum might do that, but I think they use a tree model, rather than a state engine. (And I don't think Arcanum has a multiplayer function.) But I didn't emphasize this aspect so much in my first post. NPCs seem to be controversial in SL. I do understand the value of interacting with real people, but sometimes there's also a value with having some less important parts handled automatically so the main players can hog the spotlight without hurting the feelings of the necessary bit parts. ;)

neko
Alan Kiesler
Retired Resident
Join date: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 354
06-28-2005 22:41
From: Satchmo Prototype
This is the only thing you've said that isn't already done in multi-player games. What your describing doesn't have to be Massive Multiplayer. There are lots of multi-player games out there, and although I never played them, I think the Diablo series allowed you to quest with friends over the internet on a common game.

That is not to say this wouldn't be fun to do in SL. Jeffrey Gomez just showed me his automated level generator for Primmies.


Actually it is already done, via Neverwinter Nights (yes that still exists, just got an email from them last week but I don't have the time to play). They have the abaility to have 'GM' players 'take over' the varying NPCs (which can already be heavily scripted) for more detailed interaction. Actually I know of a local LARP that was creating a semi-persistent NWN world that players can interact in between meets; Uncertain what the status of that was.

There was some discussion about an SL save/rerez system around, check in scripting tips (I canna remember the name). I'm not certain if it was far enough along to be workable yet.
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Satchmo Prototype
eSheep
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 1,323
06-29-2005 06:08
I am all for this kind of thinking and brainstorming. I think we should be doing more of it in the SL Games forum.

I always thought that turn based RPG's were the way to go for SL. The early Final Fanstasies were soo fun (you can still buy them today for GBA). You explore the world til it's time to combat. I honestly don't see any advantage to the more "real-time" kind of combat of WoW, where you click and icon, wait for a cast animation, cast a spell, cause damage, and click an icon again. In FF you meet a monster, your party squares off against him, and they get one attack per round (except if they get some sort of bonus)....

SL is well tooled for this... I've seen some great animations, particles/textures would be great for Ice/Fire bolts... you wouldn't have to rely on physics or collisions, just game engine objects that essentially roll a die (which is what happens in WoW anyway)...

If anyone is interested in this turn based RPG type combat, I have lots of idea on how to make it work... send me an IM in August (when Game Dev Contest is over) and you might have yourself a designer/scripter/backend programmer :)
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