A generic SL-wide RPG system?

Hi there! I'm rather new here so the usual proviso/apologies apply

Being a long time RPG player, I was pleased to see how many RP sims are available in SL. I've been struck, however, by the lack of a common RP system.

Many free system exist that could be implemented once for all and would provide a solid framwork for RPG ranging from urban combats to cyberpunk to fantasy.

If something like this was available, the sim owners could concentrate on creating the right settings without worry on ensure a balanced combat system or a proper progression in the skill levels.

I've been disappointed to learn, for example, that the damage system in some sim is "closed source" so that there's no guarantee of fairness and balancing.

Now, is it something that has been discussed and thrown away or am I just the only one feeling that need?

I do not understimate the complexity of creating one, just curious on what the others think.

Regards,
Rael

I don't think you'll ever see a single 'common' rp system just as there will never be a single 'common' tabletop RPG. Sure, there are gamesystems such as GURPS which have a ton of different campaign settings but there's still plenty of other games out there such as Dungeons and Dragons, White Wolf, Hero Games System, etc.

The reason is because different games are going to require different rules. GURPS is a great example because some people feel you can use it to play any kind of campaign you want. Oh really? Try playing a superhero game using the GURPS rules in the DC universe. Sure, you can play a superhero game with GURPS, but you won't have Superman like characters in it because the mechanics are just a very poor fit for such fantastic characters.

Likewise you probably won't have a single RP system evolve because different people will want different things from their game. Some people might want a game in which guns do a lot of damage. Some people might want a game in which there is a lot more melee combat. Some people are going to want short combats to prevent fights that take 15 minutes while someone runs around the sim while others will prefer longer combats to help avoid having people killed by a small patch of lag.

As for closed source combat systems my own experience is that those usually have better balance than open source. After all, with open source someone can code a gun that does ridiculous amounts of damage with an incredible rate of fire and unlimited ammo and the game designers have very little they can do to prevent it.

Seriously, and this is not at all meant as an insult, your idea will just not fly in SL.

One of the key elements in SL is being able to do things in every different way possible. Saying "you must follow this set of rules" for playing games is pretty much the antithesis of SL.

also because most of the SL population feel compelled to cheat "because they can"

Not to mention the people who create the current RP Systems wouldn't be able to gouge people outrageous prices for weapons and items if they were open source. I would put "writing an open source RP system" on my long list of things I'd love to do if I had infinite time, but unfortunately I don't. :\

Serenarra, no insult at all! If I would fear disagreement, I would'nt have posted at all!

I'm not saying to create a single set of rules for everything but, at least, to create basic mechanisms for some aspect.

There are things like skill progression, conflicts resolution etc that are common to each RP. Inventing an balancing these systems is a long and error prone activity, using what is already available, instead, would leverage years and years of work that has already been done and would benefit the gaming experience. Would you be happy to know that, despite the fact your roleplay was perfect, you didn't succeded because the scoring system was skewed?

Let's take combat resultion for example. What I'm proposing is that the basic mechanism is known and agreed, then everybody will adapt it to his need.

In such systems there are variables like the distance, the angle, the class of weapon, the ability to parry/dodge, the strenght of attacker, etc.. and formulas (or tables) that relate those things to give you the probability of success. That mechanism could be shared and will be used to model X-Ray view, a machine gun or a double axe.

As Lazarus rightly pointed out there are already attempts to create "universal" systems ranging for the very complicated (d20 or GURPS) to very simple (The Ladder) and they had a very limited success. So maybe aiming for a more restricted scope would be better.

We could focus and standardize conflict resulition for example, then the scripters and builders will adapt that mechanism to their need but everybody will know, once for all, that using a double axe from 20 meters won't give you much chance of success!

How can you call it roleplay when you don't know what damage you're opponents weapon can inflict you? What are you chance of success next time you will chase your next victim in dark alleys?

But probably Darien pointed out the right reason .


Rael

Even trying to standardize combat resolution will have limited success. Limiting the scope of what types of combat will be resolved helps but again, different designers will have different desires in how combat plays out and that will prevent systems from becoming too standardized.

As a quick example let's assume you tried to make a standardized combat resolution for martial arts. Ok, now the question becomes what kind of martial arts fights do you want? Do you want more realistic short and brutal fights like a Steven Segal movie or do you want more drawn out fantastic fights like House of the Flying Daggers. What about something in the middle like a Jackie Chan movie? This doesn't even get into whether you want your game to be twitch based or character based for determining how effective a character is in combat or if you want a skill based or level based system.


That may be true in some cases but as I pointed out earlier there are other perfectly good reason for keeping a combat system closed source that have nothing to do with trying to make money. In fact the system I play under most of the time, CoLA Combat System, is closed source and the people coding it don't make a dime off it. The system is free (though it only works in designated areas), it comes with a couple of freebie weapons, and the designers don't sell any upgrades or weapons designed for the system.

I completely disagree with this and the post following it.

Agreed that that's how one starts out in SL. Oh look, I can pass through walls by sitting on an object! No door can keep me out!

Then you meet serious rp-ers and you find that this sort of attitude is social death. SL has provided some of the most immersive rp-ing I've encountered, but there have to be rules that actually counter much of the functionality of SL.

Rule #1 - a locked door is a locked door. You can't open it without a key. You can't look through it.

It takes a lot of self-discipline to overcome the urge to bypass such obstacles, but if you are prepared to make that effort, and play with people who will also stick to it, the result can be very rewarding. Some players are very good.

So rules are needed to lay down what can and cannot be done. Sitting your way through a locked door is unrealistic and wrong. Teleporting is alaso unrealistic, but necessary, so sometimes it's right and sometimes it's wrong. Right to use it to get from your home to the rp sim, wrong to use it to escape from a prison cell.

Ultimately, what makes the rules work is social convention. Eventually the rules become second nature.

I think the problem is you're overestimating the difficulty of it. A system that would suit everyone would barely be anything more than what SL's got already, perhaps a handful of communication and storage functions. But then it wouldn't really be a game system so much as a development framework that would work for multiple types of application.

You could, I guess, make a system so that everything can be scripted through notecards. But that seems a bit counter-productive considering you'd basically be creating another abstraction layer and slowing everything down.

The very last thing we need is yet another 'roll 10 D12 +14 and pray" fighting system. Roleplaying is what happens in between battles. What's needed are more airbreathing, homo sapien type gamemasters.

I think you exactly got the point Mikyo, we act consistently to the RP scenario until there's a critical situation to solve.

It may be that we need to avoid a trap, open a door, convince the gorilla at the entrance that we can enter the club, or simply fight.

It is the GM (the Sim owner, the scenario scripter, ...) reponsibility to make it credible and it's the players responsibility to play accordingly.

My question is: how do we resolve a critical situation? As far as I can tell, everyone re-inventend his own system to do that, often without any visibility for the players on the underlaying rules.

I understand the sense of freedom SL gives but where is roleplaying if it is absolutely irrelevant who does what?

Shouldn't a gorgeous blonde have a better chance to enter the club than me? As it is now it's up to the player to decide and you can enter endless debates on the validity of a certain result.

And if we required a human GM to settle each dispute, would this benefit the roleplay?

Let's define a scope and rules for that scope so that each player knows what to expect and let's script any mechanical aspect so that rules have a minimal disruption on roleplaying. That was the objective of my proposal.



I don't know really. Everything would depend to the scope. I don't think I overestimte the effort. Consider what would need to be done to avoiding people cheating .

Rael.

There is no other way. The compter wise enough to handle storylines and conflict resolution has not yet been invented. Without a human in command, every game immediately degenerates into a free-for-all, 'might makes right' shoot em up. A roleplaying group can be held together only by compromise and negotiation, not the high roller or fastest trigger finger.